NO: Police suspended for alleged beating arrest

Capt-
Let's be clear. This was not a charge of Public Intoxication.

Here's what it was:
- A Charge of Public Intoxication
- A Charge of Resisting Arrest
- A Charge of (Felony?) Assault on a Police Officer
- All, ostensibly, stemming from the attempt to arrest for Public Intoxication

- All under the eye of a Known TV Camera which, even I, can't deny shows at least one Police Officer repeatedly punching:
a) A Brick Wall above the subject's head
-or-
b) The subject's head

Now, let's give the cops the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume the camera failed to record some dastardly deed of this 64 year old "drunk" (on Bourbon Street), which dastardly act led up to him lying bloody in the streeet.
- Under those circumstances, would you or would you not insist that the hospital staff perform a BAC test to protect yourself or your guys?
- In your jurisdiction would you have that authority?
Rich
 
The problem, Rich, is that I can't insist on it. There are times that I wish I could, but there is no legal precedent for it. The other thing that rears its ugly head is the setting of a precedent for it. If we make, say, 100 PI arrests, and test (for the sake of argument) 20 of them, the defense for those not tested can cry foul. To test every rowdy, unmanageable drunk that we get would be a logistical nightmare, and a real disruption to the emergency room if we can't use our own BAC Datamaster. Remember that this is an isolated incident out of probably 10's of thousands of PI arrests nationwide daily, and most go off without a hitch.

I neither want to give these officers the benefit of the doubt, nor condemn them at this point. Based solely on what we've seen, it looks very bad, and I can't for the life of me think of anything that would justify it, but I'm willing to let the investigation run its course. If the results of that show nothing to contradict what we've seen, then I'm all for legal and internal action against those officers.
 
University of South Florida student Calvin Briles, 21, said that when law enforcement tried to clear bystanders from the area, he said, "I want to tell somebody about this."

Briles told the Bradenton Herald a man wearing a U.S. Customs vest then grabbed him, threw him against a car, pressed his head against the hood and told him, "It's none of your business."

Fellow USF student Mike Monaghan, 22, told the paper he was handled roughly after he tried to pick up a cell phone Briles dropped in the confrontation and that a police horse then nudged his head. An unidentified official grabbed him from behind and asked him why he hit the horse, he said.

Both men were handcuffed but neither was charged, although Briles said officials read him a handful of charges before eventually letting him go.

"We felt violated," Briles said.
Click to expand...

I just read the rest of it. You know, I don't know what to think. Someones out of control and it dosn't seem to be the sheep. I'm shocked the lawer would try to to explain away the video evidence that way. I looked at it frame by frame too and either he's hitting the wall or Mr davis' head. Maybe there going to stack the jury. The whole thing is nuts.

Like a scene out of Platoon "did ya see them brains?"
 
Capt-
Thanks. Just to bring closure to this line of reasoning; are you saying that you cannot get a Motor Vehicle DUI Conviction without BAC testing?

If you CAN, that flies in the face of the statement, "If we make, say, 100 PI arrests, and test (for the sake of argument) 20 of them, the defense for those not tested can cry foul."

Rich
 
I've found that it's a catch .22:

You can't get into your vehicle to go home because it's a DUII (that's what we call it here).

You can't walk to the bus station/stop because it's PI.

You can call a cab and have them take you home, if they go that far (offer services, they don't where I live, you have to walk about 1.5 miles).

So you call the cab, start to walk home, get hit with a PI.

It's a no win situation now days.

And from reading the Ohio law, it really has a "grey" area:

alarm to persons of ordinary sensibilities
Click to expand...

Today, if you consume alcohol, then this part counts because someone doesn't like that fact that alcohol is legal.

Wayne

*and I could be pushing the quote, but I've found you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. So I just stay at home and get wasted and annoy people over the internet :D.
 
Rich

Just to bring closure to this line of reasoning; are you saying that you cannot get a Motor Vehicle DUI Conviction without BAC testing?
Click to expand...
Correct. We cannot gain a conviction without a chemical test or tests, unless he's dumb enough to plead guilty without counsel (assuming that for some reason, he would be charged without the test(s), which we don't do.), or, he refuses to take the test, which automatically results in a conviction. Moral to the story: ALWAYS take the test! A DUI case can be disputed in a number of ways, and if nothing else, can be plea bargained down to Reckless Op., but once you refuse the test, you've sealed your legal coffin. There's no fighting it, or the resulting license suspension.

Wayne

Unless you're acting in a disorderly manner (common sense here folks) or so drunk that you can't stand on your own, you should have nothing to worry about. As I said (at least in Ohio), it is NOT illegal to be merely intoxicated in public. If that were the case, we could stand outside any bar at closing time and make a couple dozen arrests every night. However, when we observe people teetering down the sidewalk towards their car, we do advise them against driving and offer them a ride home when possible, or offer to call someone to come and get them. If they ignore that advice, the instant their backside hits the car seat with keys in hand, they will be charged with DUI (physical control). A public drunk is nothing more than a nuisance, but a drunk behind the wheel is every bit as dangerous as a drunk with a gun.
 
Capt Charlie,

I won't write what I wanted, too close to the rules.

You Sir, I respect and if I did wrong in your area, I would still respect. They say that one bad apple makes the whole batch bad, but in this case, one good apple, gives us hope.

Wayne
 
Thank you Wayne, but it isn't just me that operates that way; this is SOP for my entire department (although I do have some small say in that ;) ). Maybe it's because we're a relatively small city of roughly 23,000, but we vigorously avoid the "us" vs. "them" mentality. A lot of the people we deal with are neighbors, some go to my church, I know a lot of the waiters and waitresses where I eat, I know a lot of the gas station attendants and store clerks. Some are fishing and hunting buddies, and some I drink a few beers with. They are all human and we all make occasional mistakes. We are NOT out there to make arrests, but we ARE out there to prevent those mistakes from becoming tragedy. In spite of what some think, we really are out there for the safety and well being of our friends, neighbors, clerks, waitresses, and everybody else that's honestly striving to make their's a better life. There is an element wherein the Wall exists, but they have built that Wall themselves by repeatedly hurting others, and only they can tear that Wall down, and only by respecting the rights and property of others.
 
Big Easy Cops Deny Using Excessive Force

Wednesday, October 12, 2005

NEW ORLEANS — A police union official and a lawyer for officers accused in the beating of a retired teacher on Wednesday sharply disputed the man's contention he was brutalized during his arrest, which was captured on video.

Attorney Frank DeSalvo (search) said the video shows a truncated version of the Saturday night arrest and he disputed details the video appears to have captured, including whether the 64-year-old suspect was punched in the face.

"I see an incident of a man trying to be brought under control who doesn't want to be brought under control," DeSalvo said.

The man who was beaten, Robert Davis (search), pleaded not guilty Wednesday to charges of public intoxication, resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and public intimidation.

Davis has described himself as a recovering substance abuser who has not had a drink in 25 years. His lawyer asked prosecutors to dismiss charges, but his trial was set for Jan. 18.

The two city officers accused in the beating, and a third accused of grabbing and shoving an Associated Press Television News producer, are due to go on trial on battery charges a week before Davis' trial.

Davis' lawyer, Joseph Bruno, said an APTN (search) videotape of the confrontation shows his client being brutalized by police for no reason. After the arraignment, however, leaders of the city's police union offered their own interpretations.

Police union officials described Davis as so intoxicated that he staggered down the street, stumbled into a police horse and became belligerent when officers intervened.

DeSalvo said police union officials had "broken the thing down frame by frame" and saw officers trying to bring under control an angry man. "He brought it on by his actions," DeSalvo said.

No tests for intoxication were administered following the arrest. In such cases, judges typically rely on officers' observations, said police spokesman Marlon Defillo.

The officers involved in the incident — Lance Schilling, Robert Evangelist and S.M. Smith — did not speak during the news conference. DeSalvo said Schilling and Evangelist hit Davis' shoulders, and he denied the arrest was as violent as has been portrayed.

"He clearly was not hit in the face," DeSalvo said.

DeSalvo also disputed Davis' lawyer's contention that Davis suffered fractures to his cheek and eye socket. DeSalvo said the injuries were scrapes caused when he was placed face down on the pavement.

The three officers have been suspended without pay. Lt. David Benelli, president of the police union, said the suspensions would be appealed, although that's been delayed by a city government stalled in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina (search).

Davis did not speak to reporters after his arraignment. He has said he approached a mounted police officer to ask about the city's curfew while searching for cigarettes on Bourbon Street and a confrontation ensued with another officer.

DeSalvo also claimed that APTN producer Rich Matthews grabbed Smith and spun him around before the officer responded by pushing the producer away from the arrest.

The video shows that when Matthews held up his media credentials, the officer shoved him backward over a car, jabbed him in the stomach and unleashed a profanity-laced tirade.

Matthews, who was not charged, disputed DeSalvo's account and said he never touched the officer.

A Department of Homeland Security (search) official, meanwhile, said the agency would look into allegations by two hurricane relief volunteers who accuse federal officials of mistreating them after they saw Davis being beaten.

University of South Florida student Calvin Briles, 21, said that when law enforcement tried to clear bystanders from the area, he said, "I want to tell somebody about this."

Briles told the Bradenton Herald a man wearing a U.S. Customs vest then grabbed him, threw him against a car, pressed his head against the hood and told him, "It's none of your business."

Fellow USF student Mike Monaghan, 22, told the paper he was handled roughly after he tried to pick up a cell phone Briles dropped in the confrontation and a police horse nudged his head. An unidentified official grabbed him from behind and asked him why he hit the horse, he said.

Both men were handcuffed but neither was charged, although Briles said officials read him a handful of charges before eventually letting him go.

"We felt violated," Briles said.

Wade Thompson, the students' lawyer, said when contacted by the AP that his clients had no additional comment.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Marc Raimondi said Wednesday that the Homeland Security Department's inspector general would look into the complaint.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172079,00.html

Nah, not an us vs them situation. Those college kids got in the way of the thin blue line closure. This is sickening, citizens treated as if in a occupied country. Its a shame that nothing will come of this, save for a few slaps on the wrist. Job loss and jail time would be a good thing to those involved. But, It wont happen.
 
Any hints as to the veracity of the explanation?
How 'bout this:
APTN producer Rich Matthews grabbed Smith and spun him around
Click to expand...
A News Producer, daily dealing with the police, didn't realize (or intentionally disregarded) the seriousness and danger in grabbing a cop and spinning him around while such cop is urgently trying to "come to the rescue" of his brother officers.

No, that's not far fetched.....not far fetched at all.
Rich
 
The video does not show the APTN producer "grabbing" the officer and "spinning" him around. It must have happened off camera if that's the case.

That statement does, however, create a nice mental picture of the reporter getting physical with the officer, prior to being shoved onto the hood of the car and scolded like a 4 yr old.

But I'm sure that's not the intention of the claim. :rolleyes:
 
Thank you Wayne, but it isn't just me that operates that way; this is SOP for my entire department (although I do have some small say in that ). Maybe it's because we're a relatively small city of roughly 23,000, but we vigorously avoid the "us" vs. "them" mentality. A lot of the people we deal with are neighbors, some go to my church, I know a lot of the waiters and waitresses where I eat, I know a lot of the gas station attendants and store clerks. Some are fishing and hunting buddies, and some I drink a few beers with. They are all human and we all make occasional mistakes. We are NOT out there to make arrests, but we ARE out there to prevent those mistakes from becoming tragedy. In spite of what some think, we really are out there for the safety and well being of our friends, neighbors, clerks, waitresses, and everybody else that's honestly striving to make their's a better life. There is an element wherein the Wall exists, but they have built that Wall themselves by repeatedly hurting others, and only they can tear that Wall down, and only by respecting the rights and property of others.
Click to expand...
I nominate Capt Charlie for Law Enforcement Officer of the Year on TFL.

He consistently shows natural class, humor, and genuine intelligence along with an eloquence that is far above average. I have no doubt that his natural leadership is a major factor in positively shaping the lives and careers of the men who serve with him. I also have no doubt that the men who serve with him are very proud to do so.

I can only wish that all LEOs were in his league.
 
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I dont find fault with any LEO for useing any force nessesary to subdue a drunk causeing problems.
But its pretty hard to understand why three or four big men need to punch a skinny senior citizen in the face to acomplish this.
We have some very good LEO's out there' we also have some very bad ones who make the good ones job alot harder.
 
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