NO: Police suspended for alleged beating arrest
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XavierBreath
New member
Here'a a link to an excerpt of Mr. Davis' interview.
I have to say, as inflammatory as the statement may be, that this kind of uncalled for attack on a man's physical safety and life is exactly why many of us carry a gun. I wonder..........If these attackers had not been cops, but Cripps, and Mr. Davis had pulled his Glock out and ventilated a couple of skulls, would you have held him at fault? If not, then why are the police any different when they commit the same act?
I understand the NOPD has still not dropped the Public Drunk charges against Mr. Davis.
I have to say, as inflammatory as the statement may be, that this kind of uncalled for attack on a man's physical safety and life is exactly why many of us carry a gun. I wonder..........If these attackers had not been cops, but Cripps, and Mr. Davis had pulled his Glock out and ventilated a couple of skulls, would you have held him at fault? If not, then why are the police any different when they commit the same act?
I understand the NOPD has still not dropped the Public Drunk charges against Mr. Davis.
progunner1957
Moderator
Some thugs wear badges, not gang colors
Ya gotta love the N.O. police department. I hear that the slogan "To Protect And To Serve" currently on the sides of their police cars will be replaced shortly with "Steal Guns From Citizens, Brutalize Seniors, Call It A Day."
Ya gotta love the N.O. police department. I hear that the slogan "To Protect And To Serve" currently on the sides of their police cars will be replaced shortly with "Steal Guns From Citizens, Brutalize Seniors, Call It A Day."
I ALWAYS side with the coppers, but this time I have to say that it looks ugly. The punches to the face/head are what will kill these guys. There are situations that punches to the face/head are called for. From what we can see it doesn't look like this is one of those situations.
progunner1957 said:
It's funny, even the guy that was assaulted, is not making broad statements about the entire department. Instead Mr. Davis is stating that this incident involves some bad apples - not the whole NOPD. He even goes further to state he does not believe this was a racially motivated attack.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Interesting that he was arrested for being Publically Drunk, yet when transported to the hospital, no blood was drawn to document the charge. This is, I think, SOP in most jurisdictions.
So, now the likely Victim is in the position of having to prove his innocence.
Rich
XavierBreath
New member
I would make a wager that blood WAS drawn, although not on orders of the NOPD. Chances are, an H&H and a CMP was performed as well as a toxicology screen in the ER. There is a very good chance Mr. Davis was typed and matched for a transfusion. Because this information was not ordered by the NOPD, but rather by the ER physician, it is now part of Mr. Davis' medical record, and unavailable to the NOPD or anyone else.
This is just speculation though, based on knowlege of how ER physicians work with unknown patients dragged bleeding into their suites by the EMS or police.
This is just speculation though, based on knowlege of how ER physicians work with unknown patients dragged bleeding into their suites by the EMS or police.
If the bloodwork was done, and it included a toxicology screen, it can be released by the patient. What may be problematic is that it was not drawn as a BAC under controlled circumstances. Yet it may still be admitted as proof of sobriety... Depends upon the court.
XavierBreath
New member
I'm wondering, for my information only, what controlled circumstances are needed to draw blood and have the results admissable in court beyond the controlled circumstances to treat a human life? I'm sure there is the chain of evidence, but that occurs as the blood travels from the ER to the lab, and the tubes are signed for with each transfer. Is there some controlled circumstance to accessing the vein? I've never heard this before but want to know, seriously.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Fox News reported this AM that no blood was drawn. Could have been an error.
XB-
Capt Charlie, TBO or some of the other LEO's can answer this far better than me. But, it's my understanding that in most jurisdictions, given charges of DUI and hospitalization, the cops can and do routinely order a blood drawing.
Rich
XB-
Capt Charlie, TBO or some of the other LEO's can answer this far better than me. But, it's my understanding that in most jurisdictions, given charges of DUI and hospitalization, the cops can and do routinely order a blood drawing.
Rich
XavierBreath
New member
Like I said, I'm speculating, but I fail to see how a bleeding man can be adequately treated without at least an H&H to establish his remaining blood volume. The ER physician simply would not know how much this man had bled on the sidewalk, and how close he was to death without it. Not doing the H&H would have bordered on malpractice by the physician, assuming a lab was available to to provide results in an expeditious fashion. The other tests, CMP and toxicology are routine for an unknown patient to provide safety in treatment. The type and match would be done in case the H&H was so low a transfusion was required. I'll cut out my speculation until the results appear though.
Fox News cannot say no blood was drawn unless they have the ER Report, which is confidential information and likely not released by Mr. Davis or his attorney. Chances are Fox has the Police Report, which did not request bloodwork, and they are jumping to conclusions. I just cannot imagine an ER physician not ordering blood drawn in this instance for the reasons I've stated, but I could be wrong, I have been before.
edited to add:
Never let it be said I won't support both sides of an argument in search of the truth!
Another aspect of this is all collected blood is usually held by a lab for X number of days post collection. If this was done on Mr. Davis' bloodwork (assuming it was drawn, which I believe it was) then there is a possibility a BAC could be performed at a later date. I am not sure of the test veracity afterwards though, I will have to ask a couple of Lab Tech friends on that one......
Ok, I checked. You cannot do a BAC on blood that was collected 24 hours prior, so that aspect is out. If the ER Doc did not order the toxicology, there is not a possibility of getting a BAC at a later date. One other aspect that could affect this is when a BAC is drawn, the venipuncture site must be cleaned with betadine instead of the commonly used alcohol prep pad(obviously) to prevent a false positive. Again, though if the BAC came back negative, it would not matter what the site was cleaned with, because the test can only invalidate towards a positive result.
Fox News cannot say no blood was drawn unless they have the ER Report, which is confidential information and likely not released by Mr. Davis or his attorney. Chances are Fox has the Police Report, which did not request bloodwork, and they are jumping to conclusions. I just cannot imagine an ER physician not ordering blood drawn in this instance for the reasons I've stated, but I could be wrong, I have been before.
Understood. But simply because law enforcement did not request (they cannot order) bloodwork, does not mean it was not performed. The ER physician can order the tests independently of the police, and in fact must order them so he can provide adequate and safe treatment to a bleeding patient.
edited to add:
Fox News
Never let it be said I won't support both sides of an argument in search of the truth!
Another aspect of this is all collected blood is usually held by a lab for X number of days post collection. If this was done on Mr. Davis' bloodwork (assuming it was drawn, which I believe it was) then there is a possibility a BAC could be performed at a later date. I am not sure of the test veracity afterwards though, I will have to ask a couple of Lab Tech friends on that one......
Ok, I checked. You cannot do a BAC on blood that was collected 24 hours prior, so that aspect is out. If the ER Doc did not order the toxicology, there is not a possibility of getting a BAC at a later date. One other aspect that could affect this is when a BAC is drawn, the venipuncture site must be cleaned with betadine instead of the commonly used alcohol prep pad(obviously) to prevent a false positive. Again, though if the BAC came back negative, it would not matter what the site was cleaned with, because the test can only invalidate towards a positive result.
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BerettaCougar
New member
Some of my favorite posters are strangely silent in this thread regarding coming up with excuses for the cops. I'm surprised to see it, but gratified. We do have our authoritian-cheerleaders here...
If blood was not drawn, I suppose they could always mop it off the sidewalk where they spilled it!
It sure looked like enough of it was there for a tox screen.
I don't understand why some people say things like, "I'm always on the cops' side, but..."
Why would anyone want to be -- much less be proud of being -- "always on the cops' side"? Cops, while necessary, are essentially a force for keeping people from being free to do as they please. They are an impediment (again, necessary, to a degree) to liberty.
My own position is that I am PRO-CITIZEN unless the citizen has committed some wrong, in which case I am pro-cop. But I certainly do not start out from the default position of "pro-cop" and then play it by ear about whether I'll be "pro-citizen." I do it the other way around.
-blackmind
If blood was not drawn, I suppose they could always mop it off the sidewalk where they spilled it!
It sure looked like enough of it was there for a tox screen.I don't understand why some people say things like, "I'm always on the cops' side, but..."
Why would anyone want to be -- much less be proud of being -- "always on the cops' side"? Cops, while necessary, are essentially a force for keeping people from being free to do as they please. They are an impediment (again, necessary, to a degree) to liberty.
My own position is that I am PRO-CITIZEN unless the citizen has committed some wrong, in which case I am pro-cop. But I certainly do not start out from the default position of "pro-cop" and then play it by ear about whether I'll be "pro-citizen." I do it the other way around.
-blackmind
BerettaCougar
New member
I think he obviously meant civilian.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Obfuscation. Your own state of Ohio, where you claim to be an active duty LEO:
http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dui_law.html
Now your response will be to claim that the BAC applies only to operating a Motor Vehicle and you'd be factually correct. But the argument is still an attempt at obfuscation regarding the existence of BAC's in most jurisdictions or the support of a BAC in a Public Intoxication charge, where it is imperative for the officers to prove their case in order to avoid criminal charges of assault for their own part.
No one said that a blood draw was required after DUI charges. What was said, was as follows:
Rich
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Louiosiana Law Regarding Satutory BAC levels:
Laws regarding forced blood drawings by hospital personnel:
Again whether these same laws apply to an arrest for Public Intoxication incident to additional charges and counter charges of Assault and Battery, is the issue here. It just seems to me that any cop, worth his salt, involved in an incident like this would certainly WISH to have BAC levels on record.....unless the charge was known to be false.
Rich
http://www.la-legal.com/drinking.htm
Laws regarding forced blood drawings by hospital personnel:
http://www.dui1.com/Dui_Lawyers_Driving16.htm
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/BreathTestRefusal/pages/44Louisiana.htm
Again whether these same laws apply to an arrest for Public Intoxication incident to additional charges and counter charges of Assault and Battery, is the issue here. It just seems to me that any cop, worth his salt, involved in an incident like this would certainly WISH to have BAC levels on record.....unless the charge was known to be false.
Rich