No love for .40 S&W...?

Funny how the three gun experts of the sixties Elmer Keith, Bill Jordon, and Skeeter all called for a law enforcement cartridge that was .41 caliber with a 200 grain bullet at 900 fps. What most LEO's are packing now is a .40 with a 180/165 grain bullet at around 1000 to 1100 plus. Humm sounds like the old school got its way after all.
 
Ok, my primary carry is a P229 in 9mm followed up by a P220 in of course .45ACP. However, I do own an H&K USP .40 and find it an enjoyable gun to shoot as well as very reliable. So, I am neither a “Hater” nor a “Fan Boy” but do see the .40S&W as providing another useful caliber from which to choose.

As for the flawed thinking in why it came about I must admit maybe I am uninformed, but I am not aware of anything flawed.

Wasn’t the idea to develop a round that was:
More powerful than 9mm – Check
More capacity than .45ACP – Check
With an overall weapon size similar to the 9mm – Check

So, while it may not be for everyone I am not sure I understand what is flawed about this caliber. :confused:
 
The 9mm is euro trash, The 38 special is just useless, the 45 acp is just so old and the 40 is the bastard caliber. I own them all!!
 
Quote. BarryLee. So, while it may not be for everyone I am not sure I understand what is flawed about this caliber.

The flawed thinking was the FBI made a mess of an arrest resulting in FBI agents being killed. Instead of putting the blame where it should have poor tactics and training wrong firearms for the situation ect. The put part of the blame on the 9mm even tough their is no guarantee that the same hits with a different caliber would have made any difference to the outcome. So they looked for a new pistol caliber that's how the .40 came about. It was like reinventing the wheel no point.
 
The flawed thinking was the FBI made a mess of an arrest resulting in FBI agents being killed.
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Yes, I am familiar with the developmental history of the round. They basically set some parameters for a new service weapon and it sounds like the .40S&W best fit those parameters. Based on the popularity in the law enforcement community it sounds like a lot of folks agree.

Again, I am not some apologist for the .40S&W and understand why many, me included, prefer another caliber. However, I still feel the .40S&W fills a need and just don’t understand the hostility against it.
 
Look at like this. The 40 S&W is one of the only semi auto handgun cartridges on the market that was developed in modern times due to a perceived need by the law enforcement community. That development was by a major cartridge manufacturer and a firearms manufacturer based on data compiled by the FBI testing done at Quantico Va.
The result was and is the semi auto law enforcement cartridge of the modern era. It will be as important during the mid 2000's as the .38 Special and .38 Special +P was in 1950/1960's. Are we better off than we would have been if it had never been developed?

No.

Hot 9mm ammo and .45 ACP ammo could do the same job. But the fact is that the .40 S&W was developed. It is a proven and effective semi auto cartridge and it will be with for quite some time in the future.

What is there to debate?

;)
 
Totally agree.
If you don't like it, don't use it.
Simple.
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I like it, and use it, quite a bit. I also dont get the amount of whining this round generates. Personally, I dont care what anyone reccomends, I like what works for me, and the 40 has treated me very well for years. I find it very accurate, fairly cheap, readily available, and pretty impressive performance wise. Maybe Im just lucky, but the 40 cal guns I have bought and used have never had a single failure, of any kind, and I trust it 100%. I also do some of my best shooting with my 40 cal Glock. My shooting buddy has a couple Sigs in 40 cal and feels the same way. He has guns in just about ever caliber but when he picks up the 40 he shoots his best. I remeber a few years ago, when we both got 40's, I mentioned that my brother said he hated the 40 because it was very inaccurate and hard to shoot. For a while now we have both been wondering what the hell he was talking about. I guess some people just dont like it, maybe its the recoil, which I dont think is bad at all. I am so confident with my g23 that I carry it, keep it on the nightstand every night, and would pick it over any other if I had to make one shot to save my life.
 
Over a year ago I bought and shot my first 9mm pistol. I was impressed with the 9mm and felt that the 9mm was quite a capable round. Two months ago I bought and shot my first 40sw pistol. Hmm, this is better. It's bigger and more powerful than the 9mm. The recoil is only slightly more than the 9mm and I felt that this one hits harder. I can understand why the 40sw is developed after the 10mm was too much for some.

It's an ideal caliber for most and I like it.

Yes we have a 45 and it's a proven man stopper but I wondered why develop a 40sw? All I can think of is the capacity of the mag while still comfortable to hold the pistol.
 
I don't dislike the .40 but I feel like anything I can do with a .40 I can do with a 9mm. I would rather take an extra 2-3 rounds and less recoil/muzzle flash over the slight increase in performance. In my mind if the 9mm cant take care of the job then I need a rifle.
 
The trouble is, of course, that, using this logic, someone could reasonably make the same argument when comparing the 9mm cartridge to, say, the 380 ACP ("extra rounds, less recoil/muzzle flash", etc.). At some point, the power of a given cartridge has to come to terms with what constitutes real "stopping" power. What that "dividing line" is will continue to be fodder for ballistics discussions for many years to come, I'm sure.
 
I like the round, just not in a sub compact gun like my XD. The muzzle flip was just too much for me to get a consistantly accurate follow up shot, so I ditched it and went back to a 1911 in the good ol' .45acp. I'll probably give this round another go but in something with a little more size.
 
I like the round, just not in a sub compact gun like my XD. The muzzle flip was just too much for me to get a consistantly accurate follow up shot, so I ditched it and went back to a 1911 in the good ol' .45acp. I'll probably give this round another go but in something with a little more size.
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Actually I had a very similar experience when I purchased an XDsc in .40S&W. While I liked the gun and the round they did not seem to work together - at least for me. So, I traded the XD for a 1911 .45ACP which I had my eye on. However, I did not give up on the .40S&W and picked up a H&K USP .40 which handles the caliber very well. The recoil is controllable and most importantly follow up shots are very quick.
 
The trouble is, of course, that, using this logic, someone could reasonably make the same argument when comparing the 9mm cartridge to, say, the 380 ACP ("extra rounds, less recoil/muzzle flash", etc.). At some point, the power of a given cartridge has to come to terms with what constitutes real "stopping" power. What that "dividing line" is will continue to be fodder for ballistics discussions for many years to come, I'm sure.
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That may be true but I don't have the same confidence in a .380 as I do the 9mm. As I said before I believe anything I can do with a .40 I can do with a 9mm, now I do not feel the same way about the 9mm and .380. I still trust the .380 with my life, but any gun in .380 I carry more for convenience than anything else. I don't carry the 9mm because I can squeeze a couple more rounds in a magazine, I carry a 9mm over .40 because I shoot it better and I feel no more confident in carrying a .40 over a 9mm, the extra rounds in the mag are just a bonus.
 
why develop a 40sw?
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Because the Feebs downloaded the original 10mm loading to accomodate .... um ..... "recoil averse" agents ...... and why have all that case capacity and an overbuilt gun if it is no longer necessary?
 
I love the 40, to me it is a good intermediate cartridge that I shoot well. I reload so availability of ammo is not an issue and brass & bullets are almost as cheap as a 9 and easy to find thanks to law enforcement usage. I feel it hits harder than the 9 and is more controllable on double taps and rapid fire than the 45. "For Me" I also shoot steel targets and they are easier to knock over than with a nine as are bowling pins. Also from what I understand the 40 scores higher in some competitive shoots. I like 9's and 45 too but I have really warmed up to the 40 in recent years.
 
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I don't have a 40 S&W, there seems to be a lot of empty cases laying around on the range while I'm scrounging for 45's. I always take a plastic bag with me when I go shooting to snatch up 45 or 38 brass, perhaps I should start snagging the 40 brass and giving it away when I get a coffee can full.
 
start snagging the 40 brass and giving it away

A little off the subject, but it kills me when I go to an indoor range and watch some guys shoot as many rounds as they can for 10 minutes (this is practice?) and leave vast amounts of .38, .357 .40, .45. .357 Sig. and .460 and .500 S&W cases on the floor. The 9mm I don't care about other than their worth as junk brass. As a reloader I can't help but view them as dimes and quarters thrown about by the handful. It almost physically hurts. dgang
 
It also depends where you start. My first cartridge pistol was a G23 in 2004. I really like the 40SW. Once I had that, the 9mm looked weak and the 45ACP did not look like enough of a step up to justify another gun...most of which were larger and harder to carry.

I eventually got a 9mm as a compromise for a more concealable summer CCW gun.

I tend to find myself gravitating towards the larger cartridge that will fit in a given frame size. For medium framed revolvers, 41Mag instead of 357Mag as the 44 typically requires a larger frame. So I take a 40SW in a mid-size semi auto over the 9mm. Now that I am looking at 1911s, I've already decided to step up to 10mm and bypass 45ACP.

I reload for everything so I couldn't care less about factory ammo cost.
 
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