NO GUNS ALLOWED signs????

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In Texas s site must post a specific worded sign with letters at least one inch high and in both english and spanish. It takes a sign about 1 1/2 by 2 ft to comply with the law. All the little gun with a slashed circle signs are meaningless down here. They also listed amusement parks as prohibited places but wrote the law so only two in the state actually are restricted (minimum acreage).

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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
 
It's kinda disturbing to hear some of you guys saying that you'd carry into places where you know that they don't want you carrying. Hoosierboy, just because their signs aren't legally binding does that make it okay to go against the wishes of the fairboard? Being very involved in our county fair I think that if you don't have the repsect to us to follow our wishes, then maybe you oughta just stay out.

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bullet placement is gun control
 
I agree with muleshoe ... If a person, place or business doesn't want you there with your firearm, go spend your money someplace else -- you'll feel better about it in the long run knowing that your money wasn't going to support anti-gun views & positions.
 
Welcome Liberty_For _All. You will have to bear with us on the "kidding". Some or all of use can have fits of humor at times. I usually avoid any place that I know is antigun or anti second amendment whether they post a sign saying so or not. Some places you can't really avoid, as in fairs or Disneyland(it's for the kids you know). So carry discretely as long as your state allows you to. MWT

[This message has been edited by Powermwt (edited August 02, 2000).]
 
Paratrooper, if I read your post right, RatWorld told an Orange County Deputy Sheriff that he couldn't carry in their little kingdom? :confused:

I think, given my pacifistic nature, I'd have to show up carrying my weapon, my badge, and my TCLEOSE cert., and dare Security to do something about it. :cool:

LawDog
 
Those of us who complain about our 2nd admendment rights being violated should not be so quick to violate the rights of others in return.

If you are on somebody's property, you should respect their wishes. Your right to carry a firearm ends when it impacts someone else's rights -- their property, their rules, not your's.

I can legally chew tobacco. You would not want me coming to your house and chewing & spitting it out on the carpet -- even though it may be perfectly legal for me to do so. Your house, your rules. If I don't like it, then I don't have to be there.

If somebody posts a sign saying they don't want firearms on their property and you don't like it, then don't go! After all, it is their property and not your's.

A few months ago the wife & I were in the market for a new car. At one particular dealership we were walking around the lot looking at different models when a salesman latched on to us. We talked options, features, etc. He even got the keys for us to take the car on a test spin. He could smell the sale and taste his commission.

We made our way toward the showroom to "discuss" price. There was little sign (11x8.5) on a piece of paper stating that firearms were not allowed. I did not go in. He asked me what the problem was. I explained that I was licensed by the state to carry a concealed firearm and I had one on my person and the sign indicated that firearms were not allowed in the dealership.

At first he appeared confused but then told me to come on in anyway because nobody would know. I replied that he already knew and I would know and if he wanted to continue with the sales, the sign would have to come down. He went in. Started taking the sign down. Stopped. Went to talked to somebody. Started taking it down again. Somebody walked over to talk to him. Etc.

The bottom line was that the sign stayed up and he lost & the dealership lost a sale.

Here's another way to look at it: do you really want to spend your money (no matter how little or how much) in an establishment that does not support your 2nd admendment rights? Do you want to do business with someone who might use your very money (the money that you spend there) to make anti-gun contributions?
 
I think that you are making up rights FUD.

I also don't see how a vandalism argument (spitting tobacco juice on carpet) applies to following non-legally binding signs that businesses such as grocery store or movie posts.

If I want to watch a movie in a theater in Lubbock TX and not leave my pistol in the car, I ignore the non-legally binding sign that they have posted.
 
cuerno de chivo, Maybe the chewing tobacco was a bad example. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cuerno de chivo: I think that you are making up rights FUD ...[/quote] What rights am I making up? The rights of a home owner or a business owner (whether it's an individual or a corporation) to have final say as to what is permitted on their property?

If somebody comes to my house, I as the owner have final say as to what goes on their whether it's legal or not. If something makes me uncomfortable, I have every right to ask a person to either stop those actions or leave.

My right as the property owner is GREATER than your right to carry a firearm on my property. I have final say as to what goes on in my house.

Now take this one step further, I open up a store. I am still the owner just like with my home and as the owner I have final say as to what goes on in my store. If I want to do something crazy like not sell Ginger Ale between the hours of 11 & 1, then I put up a sign and it is my right to do so. If I don't want you carrying a gun into my store, it is my right as the property owner and your right as a gun carrier does not exceed my right.

You on the other hand have the right not to do business with me. Take it another step further. If the place is owned by a corporation, they are the owners and as the owners their rights exceed your's.

You don't like the no-guns policy of a particular moive theather, then go to another theater. Seems pretty simple to me. If enought people stop doing business with them instead of sneaking a gun in because they have a right to carry one, then maybe they will change their policy with regard to firearms or suffer the financial consequences.

It amazes me that gun owners are boycotting Smith & Wesson for the recent anti-gun agreement that they signed with the government but have no problem supporting other businesses who are also anti-gun.

I don't see much of a difference. Please explain it to me.

Smith & Wesson sells a product that I like but their current position is anti-gun, so I should boycott their product. The movie theater is anti-gun (by evidence of their "no guns" signs) but it's okay to do business with them.

I just don't get it.

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited August 02, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LawDog:
Paratrooper, if I read your post right, RatWorld told an Orange County Deputy Sheriff that he couldn't carry in their little kingdom? :confused:

I think, given my pacifistic nature, I'd have to show up carrying my weapon, my badge, and my TCLEOSE cert., and dare Security to do something about it. :cool:

LawDog[/quote]

10-4 Lawdog . She told me that Disneyland ( Orange County California ) does not let LEO's carry while off duty . Anybody out there from KA have any info ? I don't know about Florida . It seems that Disneyworld is in Orange County also . Only it's in Florida .



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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
muleshoe & FUD
If your states have laws allowing posting of official signs prohibiting CW on a particular premise, then no problem. But if some operator of a public facility just takes it on their own to post some non-legal sign then they will get the expected result. They have no more legal standing than a "No Blacks Allowed" sign.

RKBA!
 
westex, I completely agree. If it's a public area and the sign has no legal authority, then it should be ignored. Just let me clarify, I do not like to go unarmed but just like I do not like to have my rights violated, property owners should not have their rights violeted either. My comments have to do with private property and the wishes of the owner -- whether it's an individual or a corpration run by individuals. Their property, their rules. I may not like it, but I'll respect it. My options are either to abide by their wishes or take my business else where. If enought people decide to take their business else where, that will send more of a message to them, then trying to sneak in with a firearm.
 
Hmm. It would be interesting, Paratrooper, to see if Cali law holds that LEO's are considered to be "on duty" 24/7. They are in Texas.

Geez, one more reason not to visit Cali.

LawDog
 
paratrooper, California has no laws on signs pertaining to CCW in any location. My CLEO told me it was a civil matter. As I stated above it would be treated like trespassing if you refuse to leave. Now the civil part is they can refuse you service, but if they have already given you admission(say Disneyland)and they then try to make you leave only because you are legally carrying, it will allow you good cause to sue them for damages. Unlike a private home, private business that deal with the public have to follow certain rules. How would you react to a movie theater manager who kicked you out solely because you wore glasses(perfectly legal glasses). He may evict you but even if he refunded your money you were damaged. I agree with FUD that in most cases it is better to not do business with them but in the examples given, the Fair and Disneyland, there is no alternate Disneyland. I've carried in Disneyland several times. It is Legal in Ca. to do so with a CCW. MWT

[This message has been edited by Powermwt (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
Let get this clear right now if any of you want to enter my property you must be armed or you will be thrown to the curb.

Some of this banning activity seems a little slim,
Say you are camping on Federal National park land in your motor home (your private property and home at the time) do you bring a gun into the park?

If you found yourself driving through City of morton grove are you going to relinquish you handgun to the gendarms as they are all illegal?

Law Dog have reltive in Riverside county Sheriffs Office and far as they are concerned you are on duty 24-7.
Disneyland is full on satanic in my view screw them and that place, I will never go there again, been a couple of decades since I went so I think I've broken the cycle.
 
I hope that I made myself clear . If not I will try again . We are NOT talking CCW here as it pertains to a private citizen . We are talking OFF DUTY COP !!!
Does any KA LEO's have any experience with this situation ?
If this is true it's a wonder that when the sucurity people that do this don't have company when they leave work . Excuse me , sir . You failed to signal . Excuse me , sir . You made an unsafe lane change . The list is endless .
Friend of mine in N.Y. ( Fort Apache Bronx ) was asked to eat in the kitchen so as not to make customers nervous since he was in uniform . Then was asked to pay full price . The owner became a poor driver overnight .

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
I'm with you, FUD.

If it's a public place, and the sign's not legally binding, then I'll carry; but if it's private property (your house, a store, a theatre, a resturaunt, or whatever) then I'll either not carry, or not go in.

Doesn't matter if the sign is legally binding or not, it states the opinion and desire of the owner.

To my mind, it's as simple as this: Excersizing my 2nd Ammendment Right does not give me license to rub everybody's nose in it.

hoosierboy stated clearly in his post that he didn't see the sign until he was leaving and, had he seen the sign on his way in, he would have left his weapon in the truck.

That's called "being polite."

Ya'll remember "polite," don't you?
 
I'm polite! :D

I'm all for respecting someone's property rights. Here in Texas, the law states that a CHL holder is trespassing if someone doesn't want him on the property while possessing a gun. BUT, the law also stipulates that there is a specific way that a property owner must inform me that they don't want me entering their property with a gun- with a specifically worded sign, contrasting colors, 1 inch block letters, in English and Spanish, posted conspicuously at all entrances. If such a sign is not posted, then -legally- they have not informed me not to enter. If a manager or whatever spots my gun and asks me to leave, or I am verbally warned not to enter with a gun, that's fine (and, if I'm spotted, I will boot myself in the head for my inattention ;) ). If I do anyway, or if the sign meets the legal requirements, then I am guilty of Trespass With a Handgun. If their sign does not meet the legal requirements, I will enter the property.

Yes, the property owner has the right to exclude guns, but the law gives him a mechanism for announcing this decision to his patrons. If he does not use it, I have not been given prior effective notice. A gun-with-a-slashed-circle sign might communicate the property owner's wishes, but it does not satisfy the law, and I will enter the property. Property rights might exceed my 2A rights, but property owners are still bound by the law.

Properly informing me they don't want guns on their property is also "polite"! ;)
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Pray as though it's all up to God, act as though it's all up to you.

Aim small- miss small...

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo because he can't type worth a #$%#$%&%@$%@@#^@$#$%^^#^%#$$^!!!! (edited August 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited August 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited August 04, 2000).]
 
Very well put Jedi.

One thing to remember is that just because property is privately owned (non-governmental) does not make it private property. If it's open to to the public it's a "public accomadation" situation. I don't agree with this in any way but since LBJ's court came up with this type of reasoning this the way it is, legally speaking.

RKBA!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A gun-with-a-slashed-circle sign might communicate the property owner's wishes, but it does not satisfy the law, and I will enter the property. Property rights might exceed my 2A rights, but property owners are still bound by the law.[/quote]

Jedi --

I must not be communicating clearly. :rolleyes:

It's *legal* to be impolite, but that doesn't make it "right."

Legality isn't the issue here (ok, well, at least it isn't in my mind :) ). What's more important (to me) is that the property owner communicated to me that he didn't want me carrying on his property. Legal notification or not, it expressed his wishes, and if I choose not to abide by his wishes (even if it is legal for me to do so) I'm being impolite.

Sure, I can carry anyway, and be perfectly within my legal Rights, and he can request that I leave (and be perfectly within his legal Rights), but that just reinforces his notion that all of us gun-toters are nuts and kooks that don't give a hoot about anyone else's Rights.

I'd much rather abide by his wishes, regardless of how non-legally-binding his sign may be, and (politely) make it known to him that I'm doing so. Doesn't leave him with any argument (either real or perceived) against my legal carry, and it lets him know that his anti-gun position cost him my business.

Go ahead and carry, and when they bitch just tell 'em that their sign wasn't big enough -- but you ain't gonna win any friends and, far from influencing people, you'll be reinforcing their misguided opinions and preconceived notions of gun owners and toters.

Kudos to FUD -- he gets my vote for CCW poster boy of 2000.
 
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