Nighthawk custom
- Thread starter Brutus
- Start date
When you get to this level, a lot of it is just subjective opinion. I think I like my Nighthawk the best and one of my Browns just a little behind --- I had both customized a bit by the makers before I bought them. Just behind these are my one Wilson (an older one) and two other Browns. Finally are two Baers, but only because they are cosmetically not as nice (fit very tight but finish is just okay). They shoot great and I carried my Stinger (a CCO-sized gun) for years.
BTW, I'm a fan of Dan Wesson 1911s. Good guns for the money. I've had a minor issue on two of mine but DW fixed them each within a week.
2wheelwander
New member
"You are not outshooting a $3500 gun, the the operator of that gun"
My first thought exactly
My first thought exactly
unclejack37
Moderator
In the gun world there are "Pretty Guns"
........Pretty Good Guns
and...........Pretty Expensive Guns.
I like the ones that go bang when I squeeze the trigger.
........Pretty Good Guns
and...........Pretty Expensive Guns.
I like the ones that go bang when I squeeze the trigger.
stagpanther
New member
And then there's this...
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/korth-revolver-super-sport/#comment-238170
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/korth-revolver-super-sport/#comment-238170I tend to like Nighthawk for all of the variety the offer -- more than some of the other 1911 makers in terms of finishes, design etc.
that being said as others have mentioned it's subjective and past a certain point what are you getting in terms of function is little.
Why did I buy a nighthawk ? because they make a 10 mm commander and would make it in stainless for me with scalloped front strap and MSH. Great gun. Would I buy it in 45 or 9mm? no way have lots of options at less coin from any of the big 4 or 5 1911 makers out there new or used. That combo and a T4 in 45 opened my wallet. It's all about relative value and price.
that being said as others have mentioned it's subjective and past a certain point what are you getting in terms of function is little.
Why did I buy a nighthawk ? because they make a 10 mm commander and would make it in stainless for me with scalloped front strap and MSH. Great gun. Would I buy it in 45 or 9mm? no way have lots of options at less coin from any of the big 4 or 5 1911 makers out there new or used. That combo and a T4 in 45 opened my wallet. It's all about relative value and price.
What kills me is that people talk about Nighthawk, Wilson, GI etc... using the term "custom" gun. Most of the guns people are referencing are not really custom guns. They have predetermined configuration which you slightly modify or pick from a list of add ons then you purchase it. The vast majority of them leave in the "Stock" configuration. You might call them semi-custom guns because at Nighthawk and many other high end 1911 builders there is one smith that builds your gun. This however does not make it custom. It does not make them better or worse than a true custom gun but there is a difference. IMHO
When you look at a NH like the GRP which is their base model you are getting a lot of gun for the money. It is a well built pistol that would serve any 1911 shooter well. Is it worth $3000+ for me it isn't but that does not mean it is not worth it to someone else or that it is over priced. For me I don't care for Nighthawks aesthetics. To my eye they just don't work and that is completely subjective.
Will it outshoot a nice production gun like a Dan Wesson? The answer is sometimes... Dan Wesson is still the king of production 1911s but they are losing their way. IMHO. They are getting too high in price and have pushed themselves too close to semi-custom houses like NH. You can see this in the weak sales on the Valor pistol which lead to it being discontinued. When it was a $1500 pistol people loved it when it push north to $2000 they lost their market.
I understand why NH and others cost what they do. They quality of materials, the amount of labor, the overall fit, feel and function of the gun all lead to the price which they are able to charge for it. I do not feel that they are overpriced they are just not my cup of tea. The same can be said for many of the semi-custom pistol builders. Wilson, Baer, GI, NH, Ed Brown etc.... The same can be said for Dan Wesson, Colt, SA and other production 1911s too. They will appeal to some that have value for some but not to others. You might like GI but not Ed Brown. To each their own and more choices is better than less choices.
For me personally if you are going to spend over $3000 on a pistol I prefer to use single person one man shops. I like working with a single individual to build the gun I want not the gun they want to make. I like to be able to pick up the phone and call the shop and have the owner, gunsmith, secretary, biller etc... answer the phone and talk to me about the gun they are building me. I want to talk about the details, the parts, the features I want vs the what the gun already has. I want advice about what "needs" to be replaced to get it to function better vs what I "want" to replace. I want to talk about individual modifications to make the gun beautiful to my eyes. In the 1911 world for me I want it to be functional and elegant and there are times I am willing to pay for it.
I want to talk to guys like Don Williams, Ted Yost, Jim Garthwaite, Karl Sokol, Ned Christiansen, Jason Burton, Stan Chen & John Harrison to name a few. I have also had great conversations with C&S, Novak, Robar, APW Cogan and other larger shops. I have worked with some of these smiths and hope to work with the others some day. These guys are true custom shops. You can have them build you a gun the way you want it. Sometimes their guns will be less than a NH sometimes more.
When you get into the truly custom world of 1911s it is a subjective process where the "value" proposition no longer applies. You are getting a functional work of art by a master craftsman depending on who you choose. If you are paying for it then you see value but that value may or may not translate to anyone else and personally I don't care because I do not plan to ever sell my custom guns. When I am worm food hopefully someone else will see some value in what I had build and compensate my wife or other family members who out live me for them. I just hope my wife gets more than I "TOLD" her I paid for them.
If I want a duty defense type gun a lot of the aesthetic stuff will get skipped. I would send a 70 Series Colt to Don Williams and have him do about $1000 to $1500 worth of work and have an street ready pistol set to my specs. That role doesn't call for more but that gun will still be custom and it will perform on par with a $3000+ Nighthawk.
The highend world of true custom 1911s is a rabbit hole which most people have never really gone down. For most people on this board the big Semi-custom houses are considered the pinnacle of the 1911 world when in reality they are not. Guns like these are. I do not own these guns they are just examples of true custom guns. Some people will see value others will not but these guys have wait lists that last years and some like Burton and Chen's books are closed and they are not accepting new orders.:
John Harrison Peerless
Jason Burton CS Signature
Ted Yost Pinnacle Signature Grade Commander
Stan Chen
When you look at a NH like the GRP which is their base model you are getting a lot of gun for the money. It is a well built pistol that would serve any 1911 shooter well. Is it worth $3000+ for me it isn't but that does not mean it is not worth it to someone else or that it is over priced. For me I don't care for Nighthawks aesthetics. To my eye they just don't work and that is completely subjective.
Will it outshoot a nice production gun like a Dan Wesson? The answer is sometimes... Dan Wesson is still the king of production 1911s but they are losing their way. IMHO. They are getting too high in price and have pushed themselves too close to semi-custom houses like NH. You can see this in the weak sales on the Valor pistol which lead to it being discontinued. When it was a $1500 pistol people loved it when it push north to $2000 they lost their market.
I understand why NH and others cost what they do. They quality of materials, the amount of labor, the overall fit, feel and function of the gun all lead to the price which they are able to charge for it. I do not feel that they are overpriced they are just not my cup of tea. The same can be said for many of the semi-custom pistol builders. Wilson, Baer, GI, NH, Ed Brown etc.... The same can be said for Dan Wesson, Colt, SA and other production 1911s too. They will appeal to some that have value for some but not to others. You might like GI but not Ed Brown. To each their own and more choices is better than less choices.
For me personally if you are going to spend over $3000 on a pistol I prefer to use single person one man shops. I like working with a single individual to build the gun I want not the gun they want to make. I like to be able to pick up the phone and call the shop and have the owner, gunsmith, secretary, biller etc... answer the phone and talk to me about the gun they are building me. I want to talk about the details, the parts, the features I want vs the what the gun already has. I want advice about what "needs" to be replaced to get it to function better vs what I "want" to replace. I want to talk about individual modifications to make the gun beautiful to my eyes. In the 1911 world for me I want it to be functional and elegant and there are times I am willing to pay for it.
I want to talk to guys like Don Williams, Ted Yost, Jim Garthwaite, Karl Sokol, Ned Christiansen, Jason Burton, Stan Chen & John Harrison to name a few. I have also had great conversations with C&S, Novak, Robar, APW Cogan and other larger shops. I have worked with some of these smiths and hope to work with the others some day. These guys are true custom shops. You can have them build you a gun the way you want it. Sometimes their guns will be less than a NH sometimes more.
When you get into the truly custom world of 1911s it is a subjective process where the "value" proposition no longer applies. You are getting a functional work of art by a master craftsman depending on who you choose. If you are paying for it then you see value but that value may or may not translate to anyone else and personally I don't care because I do not plan to ever sell my custom guns. When I am worm food hopefully someone else will see some value in what I had build and compensate my wife or other family members who out live me for them. I just hope my wife gets more than I "TOLD" her I paid for them.
If I want a duty defense type gun a lot of the aesthetic stuff will get skipped. I would send a 70 Series Colt to Don Williams and have him do about $1000 to $1500 worth of work and have an street ready pistol set to my specs. That role doesn't call for more but that gun will still be custom and it will perform on par with a $3000+ Nighthawk.
The highend world of true custom 1911s is a rabbit hole which most people have never really gone down. For most people on this board the big Semi-custom houses are considered the pinnacle of the 1911 world when in reality they are not. Guns like these are. I do not own these guns they are just examples of true custom guns. Some people will see value others will not but these guys have wait lists that last years and some like Burton and Chen's books are closed and they are not accepting new orders.:
John Harrison Peerless
Jason Burton CS Signature
Ted Yost Pinnacle Signature Grade Commander
Stan Chen
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I mostly agree with that but the lines are getting more blurred. For example, in years past, Ed Brown offered only a handful of options. Now they offer a large variety of options. See https://www.edbrown.com/build/. Still, there's something really special in a gun from, say Stan Chen. I drool over his work.
Good info. I had not looked at the Ed Brown site in a long time. They have definitely moved a bit more to the custom side. I build a pretty nice gun for $4000 on their site. I would still choose the one man shop but it is a option.
I am currently working with Don Williams of The Action Works on a build now. I am using a Colt 70 series as a base gun. It will come in around the cost of a GRP.
Deluxe Trigger Job with Harrison hammer, sear, disconnector and trigger
Smooth out and Dehorn
Bevel Magwell Machine cut @ 15
Stan Chen Gen 2 magwell @ 25 LPI
True, High Cut & Checker Front Strap @ 25 LPI
Machine French Cuts on Slide
Machine Ball Cuts on Slide
Flattern & Serrate Slide Top in Ghost Arrow Pattern
Furnish & Install EGW Slide Lock
Furnish & Install Harrison Beavertail Grip Safety
Furnish & Install EGW Low Lever Thumb Safety
Furnish & Install The Action Works custom sight with U notch and Gold dot front sight
Spegels custom grips
Finish in DLC Ion Bond or Polished Blue
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I love working with Don. He is a great smith and a gentleman. Always answers the phone or calls me back when I have questions. He works with you to get the build to meet your needs & wants.
I will post pics when it is complete.
I bought a Nighthawk Talon about 12 years ago. It’s my favorite gun. It’s shoots great, but so do many others. I like the aesthetics and workmanship and how it performs. Worth it? Well, obviously, to me. And frankly, that’s all that matters.
Down the road when I’m gone, I’ve quietly told my wife who in the family to give it to, who knows how much I’ve enjoyed owning it and he appreciates it, too. I like that.
Down the road when I’m gone, I’ve quietly told my wife who in the family to give it to, who knows how much I’ve enjoyed owning it and he appreciates it, too. I like that.