"Nice [TFL] Shirt You're Wearing" : Another FUD File.

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I had to run out during lunch to get milk for tha baby and my sister-in-law told me to take her car and fill it up at the station on the way back because she was on empty. Since I didn't have much time, I didn't bother to change and ran out of the house wearing what I was wearing -- torn jean, sneakers, my Taurus 85UL/UC in an inside the waist belly band and my TFL shirt with the big logo across the back.

As I was standing in line at the supermarket with the bottle of milk, a LEO approached me ...

"Nice shirt."

"Uh ... Thank you."

"You wouldn't be carrying any firearms?"

"Why YES I do as a matter of fact ... a two inch .38 snubbie." I was going to mention the make & model along with what ammo it was loaded with but a comment made by KaMaZaKe last night in another thread about my 'salesmanship' made me think twice about saying anything any further.

Hand moves toward his gun, retention strap is unsnapped and hand remains on the holstered gun. I noticed that the gun was a S&W4006 with the safety in the off position. I was going to comment that I have one just like it in my nightstand (actually, in a bolted down strong box with a simplex lock on it) but decided that it would be best if I remained silent.

"Would you please step over to the side sir and keep your hands where I can see them?"

:rolleyes:

"Where is the firearm?"

"It's under my shirt on my right hip in an inside the waist belly band." (From Action-Direct.)

"Do you have a license to carry a firearm?"

"Yes, I do officier."

"Deputy."

:rolleyes:

"Can I see it please?"

I reach for my wallet, which was in my left hip pocket, with my left hand.

"Slowly remove the item in question without making any sudden movements."

Take out my wallet, remove my CWL and hand it to him. He looks at it. Looks at me and then looks at the CWL again.

"Everything appears to be in order. Have a nice day sir."

tff.gif

Share What You Know & Learn What You Don't.
 
FUD, considering you live in Florida, I think you could have a very good chance of getting this guy reprimanded by his SO. I hope you got his name and badge number.
 
Just out of curiousty, how old was the deputy?

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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
Didn't get his name or badge number as he was very polite but rather strict.

Really couldn't figure out the age -- maybe late twenties or early thirties ... big, muscular guy wearing black shorts.

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited September 26, 2000).]
 
Reprimanded? He asked if you were carrying and you said yes. At that point the officer's safety is on the line. He doesn't know who you are. For all he knows you could be an escaped con. He asked for your permit, saw things in order, and sent you on your way. I don't see what's wrong with that.

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"Get yourself a Lorcin and lose that nickel plated sissy pistol."
 
"You wouldn't be carrying any firearms?"

Something really galls me about that statement (yes, statement). I (to my detriment, considering Gung-Ho's attitude) would probably have asked him if that was a statement or a question, then I would have insisted that he phrase it as a question.

Call me Alex Trebek.
 
Tecolote, being a retired police officer myself I would never fault another officer for taking precautionary steps when he felt it necessary. However, given that, based on FUD's description of the incident, he (FUD) was posing no threat I fail to see the officers reaction to the "T"-shirt....and after all that is what prompted his inquiry. Given the number of CHL holders in Florida I would say he is going to be a busy man if he ask each one he encounters for their paperwork.
The reason I asked his age was because I suspected, and still do, that he is new to the job and still in the black glove phase.

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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
I think FUD was 'made" by his shirt. Not that he was a walking billboard, I don't know if it was enough legally for "probable cause", but I've seen the same thing happen in public with folks carrying fanny packs and wearing NRA caps, too. Sad state of the times...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunslinger: ... FUD was posing no threat ... [/quote]I was standing in line holding a milk bottle and a box of baby "Elmo" cookies. I checked myself before and after to insure that I wasn't printing. With an untucked shirt, I can successful conceal even larger guns without anything showing.
 
Thank God you were carrying the baby "Elmo's" and not the full size pre-ban variety or there could have been serious trouble! :D
 
If I was that officer I would have grabbed FUD in a choke hold and said - "so you are the one making all those posts on TFL - Aren't you .....aren't you.... we will not allow the police state to be questioned, understand??? Now assume the position..."

:)
 
My opinion the officer was out of line.No probably cause(t shirt?stupid).There was no reason to even ask.Now he did ask(improper question given stuation)and was told yes.Now would someone who was carring illegaly say yes?Whole thing was idiotic from the word go.

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
Show me your papers!

...and this guy was a deputy? This is below police officer.

And BTW, the accurate answer to his question is "no" because he phrased it with a negative. You WOULDN'T be carrying any firearms? It implied that you are not. No, you ARE carrying a firearm.
 
Uh, when I made the shirts I didn't intend for anybody to get shot over them. :eek:

I'm with Gunslinger on this one, he was probably relatively new and saw "firearms enthusiasts" on the logo.

When I made the first batch everybody wanted "discreete" logos. Then I was told they where too small. So I make them big, and FUD gets hassled? I can't win. :)
 
Chaps my hide. You can't even wear a decent Tshirt anymore. You know I had something really witty to say but now I cant remember it.
 
Correia, don't blame yourself (even in jest) -- I get a lot of nice compliments on the shirts when I wear them to the range ... I just should have changed into something else before going out -- my fault.
 
Tecolote, the thing is, the deputy was NOT dealing with FUD for any other reason at the time. It wasn't as if he had pulled FUD over or was questioning him about something and wanted to make sure everything was cool. He approached FUD for NO OTHER REASON than his shirt. He was fishing based on FUD's visible support for the RKBA.
It's wrong. It's indefensible, particularly in a state with shall-issue CCW. He should be reprimanded.
 
Granted, there was no reason for this clown to bother you and make you go through that, but after he asked if you were carrying, why not just say 'Yes and I have a permit'. You had already told him the type of firearm and your carry method before you even bothered to mention the permit.

Seems to me, and I may just be a complete moron, but I would think it would be easier to notify him of the permit rather than make him ask you and put him on the defensive. Like Gunslinger said, he will be one busy LEO if he keeps that kind of stuff up, but why not just tell him then about the permit after he asks if you are carrying.

I also have a 'must notify' mentality from living here in OK. If we are addressed by a LEO in any official capacity we MUST notify them at that time. If they were just to make a comment about my shirt then I don't need to worry, but if he asks if I am carrying he has gone from General conversation to being a LEO doing his duties and I must notify him and be prepared to show my permit.

Not a flame just a ?.
 
Reminds me of the case where pulling over a car with a Grateful Dead bumper sticker constituted "probable cause" for a drug stop.

In a right-to-carry state like FL, why would anyone packing illegally advertise that with a t-shirt ? ... and answer the question truthfully in the first place ?

What next, asking the guy with the NASCAR t-shirt to see his driver's license, and if he was speeding on the way to the store ?

It's intimidation, plain & simple. Just another way for "The Man" to reinforce the idea that "You do not have the 'right' to do this - it is a privilege, subject to the whim and discretion of the state (me)."
 
Whoa - A Deputy is NOT below Police Officer.
A Deputy works directly for the Sherrif who is an elected official and thus the highest LEO Authority in the county. What ever that county is and what cities are in the county - doesnt matter.
 
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