Nice [TFL] Shirt You're Wearing" : Another FUD File - Part II

Ward, I think you mis-understood what I wrote. I wasn't saying that you dis-liked FUD. I was just saying that if FUD was a BG then the LEO could have just waited for him to make his move and would have been prepared.

And why in the name of God you took your wrong home invasions lying down is beyond me. Please don't take this as a flame, but please stand up for yourself. These fools busted you door down twice and you just fixed it and didn't even get reimbursed? That makes no sense at all. I would think that any police station would gladly repay you for any damages. I might see doing the work myself if it happened to me because I wanted it done RIGHT, but I would darn sure get paid back for any expenses. JMHO.
 
Being stopped, questioned, and asked to show papers is wrong. Forget about why the deputy was wrong, but why should FUD have to deal with that? Of course, legally, FUD didn't have to answer his question.

Ward, just because you had your door kicked in twice is no reason that lesser crimes by law enforcement should be tolerated. Have you tried to sue your local PD? I would think that with TWO wrong addresses, you would have a strong case.

BTW, are you an E. E. Cummings fan?
 
For starters, the deputy asked FUD if he was carrying a gun because of his shirt. When FUD stated he was, the deputy behaved in a manner that was totally uncalled for.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hand moves toward his gun, retention strap is unsnapped and hand remains on the holstered gun. I noticed that the gun was a S&W4006 with the safety in the off position. I was going to comment that I have one just like it in my nightstand (actually, in a bolted down strong box with a simplex lock on it) but decided that it would be best if I remained silent.[/quote]

You think that unsnapping his holster and ready for draw is justified? For one, he had no business asking him if he was carrying a loaded gun because there was no probable cause. Two, what idiot in their right mind would say, "Yes I'm carrying a gun." if they were about to commit a crime? Sorry Ward but I'd be royally pissed if an officer was ready to draw a gun for these reasons.
 
That deputy sounds kind of high on his horse. His name didn't happen to be "Fife" was it?

I would think t-shirt logos are freedom of speech, oh unless you're the tobacco companies and you want to put your logo on a t-shirt, hat, etc.. Oh and soon the gun companies...

------------------
The first step is registration, the second step is confiscation, the final step is subjugation.
 
ds1973, He was too big & muscular to be Fife. I'm not in the same shape that I was twenty years ago (I boxed & wrestled in high school and did some karate in college earning a green belt -- of course, I've forgotten everything that I learned back then), but even in my prime, he looked like he could have eaten me for breakfast!
 
I think anyone who doesn't see the fundamental problems with the Deputy Dawg that FUD encountered deserves an honorary membership in the MSGA.( Mall Security Guards of America )
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
"You wouldn't be carrying any firearms?"

"Why YES I do as a matter of fact ... a two inch .38 snubbie." I was going to mention the make & model along with what ammo it was loaded with but a comment made by KaMaZaKe last night in another thread about my 'salesmanship' made me think twice about saying anything any further.[/quote]

FUD, you worry me. Why didn't you just say, "Yes I am officer, I have a concealed carry permit. I am carrying legally. Have I done something wrong? Would you like to see my permit?"

1) The officer doesnt care what make, model and caliber of firearms you're carrying.

2) He doesn't care what brand of ammunition you're carrying in it.

3) Always take the upperhand. You weren't doing anything wrong. He has no business detaining you. And he definately has no
reason to unsnap his weapon.

This incident should be reported.
 
dvc, I know that he didn't care about the make, model, ammo, etc. -- that why I didn't say anything. I THOUGHT about it but then concluded against it.
 
A few observations on this post.

The deputy was obviously acting out a power trip as to question FUD on his being armed or not. I can not speak for FUD, but I more than likely would have said NO. It depends.

If I were in FUD's position, I would be absolutely furious that I got questioned. In fact, it would have been rather difficult for me to contain myself -- but being armed, I would have had no choice but to suck it up. I also seriously would have disliked bein' pointed out to all the other occupants (if this is really what happened) of the store that I was armed and being questioned by the po-po.

Just as someone had mentioned in a thread a while back -- just because he was leaving a bar, got into a car and drove off, DOES NOT MEAN he had anything to drink or was driving drunk. Just as because FUD was wearing a TFL shirt DOES NOT mean he was armed.

That last observation being made, just in case this is the point, I still don't plan on affixing my NRA bumper sticker to my car. Last thing I want is to be pulled over and questioned about my firearm(s). However, I've seriously considered pushing the limits of civil-disobediance lately.. but thats a different thread for a differend time. :D Now I'm off to print up my "I am a crack dealer" T-shirt. Wish me luck. :D

Reading how ward so causually mentioned that he had his door kicked in by the police.. TWICE really stupified me. Exactly how this could happen twice, escapes me. How ward can blow it off and buy two doors to replace the onces destroyed is even more interesting. If I didn't trust his story to be true, I would assume he was lying. However, I'll buy it all the same.

That being said.. I wonder if I would live through an "accidental" police raid of my home. If someone kicks in my door.. I'll shoot first and ask questions later.

..and, as always, I can not wait to see John/az2's reply to any post. He always seems to share his opinion which I not only agree with, but find exceptionally hilarious. Common sense at it's best -- thanks John!

FUD, just take it easy buddy.. OKAY?

------------------
President, FUD's Fan Club.
 
"legally, FUD didn't have to answer his question'

Wrong, even if an officer's line of questioning is bogus or he/she is making an illegal arrest you have to go along with it. If the Deputy had decided at the mere sight of the T-shirt that he was going to handcuff FUD and drag him outside, legally FUD would of had to comply. IT SUCKS I know, I've had to learn the hard way. I was peppersprayed, kicked and then had my bail set at $60,000 all because a cop was "fishing" for an arrest. All I had to say when asked to put my hands behind my head was "Why officer, whats the problem ?" and that constituted resisting arrest.

FUD handled himself perfectly, but for the sake of his community he should not allow JBT's like this to continue hassling innocent citizens. File a complaint, even if nothing happens, it still looks bad on his record and could help in case someone else has a similar situation with the deputy down the line.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MTAA: ... All I had to say when asked to put my hands behind my head was "Why officer, whats the problem ?" and that constituted resisting arrest ...[/quote]Now that is scarry!
 
Well, I went and did it. I must be the long lost brother of FUD.. :D. I've been reading these posts and thought to myself... hmmmmm, I wonder what would happen if I....

Well, I got "dressed" up in my HK T and a pair of my old camo pants (These ARE military issue) and walked downtown. About the only smart thing I did was leave the gun at home. Well, I guess people DO judge you on your attire. I overheard comments such as, "Another gun nut", "must belong to the (ugh) militia", "I hope that the aryan nations isn't moving here", "what a scumbag" (even though I still sport the military reg. haircut, am clean shaven, and my cloths were washed), and the last one upon the group seeing that I still sport Georgia plates "Thank G-d he's from out of town". Of course, I am just highlighting the "bad" responses, got a few "cools" from others.

I don't know what it is... you guys come up with a horror story and I just HAVE to repeat it just for sh!ts and grins. It's fun being non-pc but still is scary. No cops called this time, but hey, I guess that it was my lucky day.

***FUD, we've got to get together.. between the power of both of us, we could bring the U.S. guberment to it's knees.... :D :D :D :D

****To the guberment spooks: Not a threat.. it's just between FUD's bad luck (don't stand close to him) and my stupidity for doing non-pc things... we would must likely cause your blood pressure to raise or for you to laugh yourselves to death. And, I don't own any guns... the cat sold them all for hairball drugs and catnip... bad cat!

USP45usp
 
Maybe we need to find a 4 leaf clover, have it bronzed and mail it to FUD. Then he can make a necklace out of it and carry it with him wherever he goes.
 
Ahem ... I think that this type of stuff is much more common than most people realize -- it's just that a lot of people don't share their expereinces with others so most of us never hear about it. Case in point ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbj: Got the Ar-10 today and boy is it great. 100 flawless rounds. There were 3 other people shooting Class 3 subguns up in the canyon and they loved the new AR too. Then something weird and scary happened right after I left.

I get to my car and place my unloaded rifle on the back seat of the Cherokee and head down the mountain. I’m driving along and a County Sheriff patrol car going the opposite direction with lights on passes by and makes a quick u-turn and well…I pull over. Next the Sheriff approaches and asks if I have any weapons in the car and tell him yes, there is a rifle on the back seat. He tells me not to turn around and I power unlock the rear doors and he takes my new AR10 out and places it in his patrol car. I leaned out my window and said “Sir, I just picked that rifle up yesterday, please don’t scratch it”. I don’t know why but I had to say that.

Then the Deputy comes and gets my license and there I sit for a while. I figured I got stopped because of the guys up there using Class 3 weaponry and then the Deputy gives my new AR-10 to another officer in a different car and he takes off up the hill. So I sit there another half hour and then the second Deputy approaches me and tells me they had a report of someone at the shooting area had shot across the road at a bear cub. Naturally it wasn’t me. I didn’t see anything like that.

The witness who supposedly spotted the illegal activity said there was a black truck and a Cherokee parked nearby. So apparently this is why I got stopped. Well to shorten all this they tell me I can go home but if the Wildlife Service shows up to arrest me at home not to shoot it out with them if they come. What kind of comment was that? What was this guy talking about? Then he tells me he’s gonna get together with his witness and I should not go cut my hair or anything. WTF?

So then they tell me I can leave but first they place the AR-10 in my truck and then let me drive away.

So here I sit awaiting my fate. If what they told me was true, I sure hope their witness got a good look at the perp because it wasn’t me. Geeeez, how did I get involved in this?

Now I don’t begrudge the officers as if they get a report they are just doing their duty. However I am seen at that shooting area quite a bit recently. Were they just checking me out? Was there really a report? I don’t know what to make of the whole thing. Perhaps some antigunner made a false report just to stir things up? I don’t know what to make of all this?

The officers were polite and professional and all that and weapons were involved but in all my years I've never had a stop like this.[/quote]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"legally, FUD didn't have to answer his question'
Wrong, even if an officer's line of questioning is bogus or he/she is making an illegal arrest you have to go along with it.[/quote]

Uh, wrong. Refusing to answer questions and resisting arrest or refusing to obey orders are two different things.

Yes, you do have to cooperate physically with a bogus arrest or detention, but you certainly don't have to answer any questions.
 
The 5th amendment protects the citizen from being compelled to testify regarding himself. No-one ever has to answer any questions regarding themselves.
 
Uh, wrong. Refusing to answer questions and resisting arrest or refusing to obey orders are two different things.

Yes, you do have to cooperate physically with a bogus arrest or detention, but you certainly don't have to answer any questions.


Depends on the line of questioning, if the officer had asked FUD to produce identification, he would have had to comply or that would be viewed as subversive. If FUD had not responded when the deputy asked if he was carrying he would of more than likely asked that as his second question. If he was willing to ask FUD whether he was carrying in the first place, there is no way he would of let the situation go given passive resistance. If upon retrieving FUDS identification he found a CCL license FUD could then be put under arrest for lying to the officer, legally.

Unfortunately there are all sorts of loopholes that circumvent the 4th and 5th amendments. "Taking the 5th" is only really effective when being questioned by a prosecutor or when being interviewed post arrest because you are suspected of a crime.

It only makes sense that the officers line of questioning would turn from inquery to command, and if FUD had been caught lying then he would of been in a world of trouble, even though he was legally carrying. In court the officer would probably say FUD was printing or make some other b.s. excuse noting his behavior (He was probably trained to notice quirks of people who carry handguns ;)). And if you don't believe me, I'm pretty sure it was the Dade County Sheriff who is famed for creating the profiling techniques which are used effectively by police in and out of court.

And to top it all off, even if FUD had passively resisted, was totally in the clear and took his case to court, he'd still probably get convicted. Why ? Who does the jury believe ? A nut in a pro RKBA, militia, neo nazi shirt or the warm, friendly, doogooder police officer looking to protect the community from violent thugs like FUD.

When I had my day in court the police officer(s) lied through his teeth, and the prosecutor provided a profile of me that was so ridiculous it appeared to be Charles Mansons' bio verbatim. Anyways, lesson learned never resist a police officer's line of questioning unless you have at least one or two reliable witnesses. The bad cops don't scare easily and inspite of their disregard for the law, they always win in court.
 
MTAA posted: "Depends on the line of questioning, if the officer had asked FUD to produce identification, he would have had to comply or that would be viewed as SUBVERSIVE."(emphasis added).

Subversive? Since when is that a state crime? Federal, sure, but only if you are trying to undermine through illegitimate means the gov't of the United States. You have to comply with requests for identification. You don't have to answer any questions to an LEO, under any circumstance. The Supremes themselves have held that.
 
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