Nice [TFL] Shirt You're Wearing" : Another FUD File - Part II

D

deanf

New member
Continued from [Link to invalid postml

FUD, I too am almost 100% sure.

I just hate to judge anyone without hearing both sides of the story. I do it sometimes, but try not to, and encourage others not to.

I guess none of us will ever hear both sides of the story. so it's fun to bash the guy, and what he doesn't know won't hurt him . . . .
 
When I started the origninal thread, it wasn't with the intention of bashing anyone. I just told the story because it involved a TFL t-shirt. I thought that I was treated very firm but also very politely. I was just glad that he didn't falsely accuse me of printing. FUD.
 
There are just enough cops out there doing stuff like this to make the lives of ALL the police more difficult. Every time they step over the line like this, they discourage people from talking to them. I have come to the conclusion that I won't even talk to a police officer unless I have a lawyer present.

If they didn't fish for potential violations of law B.S.55378008 so often, a lot of us would be more likely to give them any information that we had.

BTW, I put deputy below police officer because the Sheriff can make ANYONE a deputy. In some cases, they don't even need training, and some aren't trusted to carry a gun.
 
FUD, I think everyone agrees that the deputy didn't treat you badly, it's the fact he asked you the question at all that is disturbing.
 
I knew this thread wouldn't die after just one round! :)

After thinking about it, I think that the best thing that FUD could have said to the deputy is "why yes I do have a gun on me and I have a permit to carry. By the way, are you NEW with the department? The only reason I ask is because the veterans I know normally wouldn't ask me that, you know, without good probable cause and all. Can I show you my permit?"

I think this is better than getting in a confrontation with the guy and upsetting yourself. Also I don't think you need to report the guy - you'll probably just make him look good, like "boy isn't he aggressive, what a go-getter".

Instead you pop his ego a little in a polite, non-threatening way which takes the reward out of his ego self-nourishing behavior.





[This message has been edited by Mr. Pub (edited September 27, 2000).]
 
good probable cause? of course he had probable cause! fud was wearing a gun related shirt. the leo was safeguarding the community that he is paid to protect and he merely wanted to verfiy that fud wasnt illegal armed. see nothing wrong with that.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ward S:
good probable cause? of course he had probable cause! fud was wearing a gun related shirt. the leo was safeguarding the community that he is paid to protect and he merely wanted to verfiy that fud wasnt illegal armed. see nothing wrong with that.[/quote]


Errr...no. Wearing a gun related shirt is not probable cause. Check your supreme court decisions.
I can only hope you were trying to be sarcastic.
 
Ward, I have to disagree with you. Just because someone has a shirt on, that gives no one the right to assume the worst. Example, does everyone who wears a Grateful Dead shirt do drugs? Do they deserved to be searched? I don't think so. My aunt has a GD t-shirt and she hates drugs more than anything.

I have a lot of respect for LEO's, my father, uncle, and brother are all current or retired police officers or deputies. Probable cause is one thing, this is another. This was probably an excited rookie eager to rid the world of evil.
 
rikwriter, i dont understand what the problem is and what all of the fuss is about. if your not doing anything wrong, then what is the problem? fud wasnt ruffed up and was treated politely. he was legally carrying and once that was determined, the leo sent him on his merry way.

suppose it wasnt fud. suppose it was somebody planning on commiting an armed robbery. would you have prefered the leo to ignore a possible problem and then have someone get killed later? with a badge comes great responsibility and it cuts both ways.
 
Ward S, You need to check out that little thing called the Constitution. This guy is leading the way in defeating our rights and you say that. If FUD was an armed robber than I guess the LEO has a leg up on him because he is ready for FUD to draw and be stupid. As it is, FUD has been issued a CCL and is trusted by the state but for some reason this guy thinks it's his responsibility to question that. There IS a problem here and you need to look at what we are fighting for here.

[This message has been edited by HukeOKC (edited September 27, 2000).]
 
Ward,

First off, a felon would be stupid to be wearing a gun-related t-shirt... sure, we can all agree that many felons DON'T think very thoroughly; but let's just assume that most felons don't wear RKBA shirts while carrying illegally.

Second, we could cut down on a lot of crime if we all just wore electronic monitoring devices. I mean, if you're doing nothing WRONG, then what do you have to worry about? I hope you're not one of those people who like the idea of a National ID Card.

Third, can I stop someone because thay have a "High-Times" magazine, or a "Guns and Ammo" Magazine? At what point do we say, "I don't think so."

No flame intended, expressed or implied.
Take care Ward S,
Ben

------------------
Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target" http://ben.gunsnet.net

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited September 27, 2000).]
 
hey hukeokc, im not saying anthing bad about fud. i like him and the adventures that he shares with us. as a matter of fact, the first thing that i do when i log in is to see what storys and words of wisdom fud has to share with us. however, the leo doesnt know fud from a whole in the wall. better to be safe than sorry.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ward S:
rikwriter, i dont understand what the problem is and what all of the fuss is about. if your not doing anything wrong, then what is the problem? fud wasnt ruffed up and was treated politely. he was legally carrying and once that was determined, the leo sent him on his merry way.

suppose it wasnt fud. suppose it was somebody planning on commiting an armed robbery. would you have prefered the leo to ignore a possible problem and then have someone get killed later? with a badge comes great responsibility and it cuts both ways.[/quote]

Suppose it wasn't FUD, suppose it were YOU, wearing an NRA ball cap for instance, and the cop said "Nice hat. Are you carrying a gun?"
It is unconstitutional, it is plain wrong and if it were me, I would be complaining to the Sheriff's Dept and calling my county comissioner and writing letters to the editor till that deputy was officially reprimanded.
It's an assumption of GUILT because of politics.
 
Ward, I'll cut you some slack, if the shirt had said "Insured by S&W and I have an itchy trigger finger", in my book that would qualify as probable cause. However, wearing a firearms enthusiast shirt does not constitute probable cause.

Someone mentioned, "How would you feel put in FUDS situation?", I'll elaborate on that, how would any of us here feel if that by mere association with TFL we were searched by the police for an illegal possession of a firearm ? At the house or in the car ? Are we to assume that by being a member of this forum we forfeit our right to not be searched by the police ?

Hmmm...add to that the deputy initiated the search in the worst of circumstances, in the middle of a grocery store !! Stupid Stupid Stupid !!! Had he truly been concerned for the public's safety he should of at least had the foresight to handle the situation in a more appropriate setting. Like waiting for Fud to walk outside.
 
Hey, LEO was just damn unprofessional, unsafe, and unentitled to his actions. Fortunately for him, it WAS Fud. Let's just hope this rookie learned something here; and is grateful for a Fud.

------------------
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Better to have it and not need it; than need it and not have it
 
Last time I heard about something like this it was an old-timer at a gun show in IL. He knew my dad somehow and we got to talking.

He'd had a car with an "Insured by Smith and Wesson" bumper sticker. A cop pulled him over and without any bull walked up and asked "Mister, do you have a loaded gun in that car?"
He claims he said "Sir, if I had a loaded gun in this car, what the hell makes you think I'd tell you about it?" and the cop laughed and let him go. Personally I think if he'd been quite that bold, he'd have been searched, but I suppose it's possible if the cop thought it was all a big friendly joke.

Either way, he's still pretty angry about it years later. I can't say I blame him.

Ward, without flaming, I am truly puzzled by your attitude. I don't just disagree with it, I fail to understand it. Would you consent to random searches of homes in your neighborhood? After all, people who weren't doing anything wrong would have no reason to object, right?
 
don i do have random searches in my neighborhood. i had my door kicked in twice by the police. oops, sorry, wrong address and we had a tip but it was obviously wrong. and both times i had to pay to get the door fixed myself. what happened to fud was nothing. he didnt get thrown against the wall or smashed in the ribbs with a club. i guess that is why i dont understand why everyone is making a big deal about the leos behavior.
 
Ward - let's suppose that it wasn't FUD and the deputy did suspect that he was intent on something other than buying groceries. He could have started the same conversation, "Nice shirt." "Uh, thanks." And then he could have left it at that, perhaps stepping to the door and acting non-chalant. Unless the non-FUD guy with bad intentions was an absolute idiot, his plans just changed dramatically to only buying something and leaving the store without incident. The deputy would have accomplished the same thing without violating anyone's rights. As it is he might have made a possibly bad situation worse by challenging Mr. non-FUD inside the store.
 
Ward,

It always starts out small.

"We're the government and we're here to help you."

"No new taxes!"

"I smoked marijuana, I just didn't inhale."

"I never had sexual relations with that woman!"

BTW, did you feel violated when they kicked in your door? Both times? How did you feel when you had to fork over the cash to have the door fixed? Both times.

Officer to Ward, "Excuse me. You've got some nice long hair. Do you have any drugs on you? How about a large amount of cash, say $300 or more? Have you ever done drugs? Could you step over here and put your hands on the wall? No, I'm just going to pat you down. It's for my safety, of course. Thank you for participating in the police state."

"Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin(imperfectly quoted)

There was a LOT wrong with what happened to FUD.

Shall I go on?

------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited September 28, 2000).]
 
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