Newbie with equipment/general questions

totalloser wrote:
Read The ABC's, then read it again-
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I want to echo that.

Read the "How to Reload" section of your manual thoroughly and then read it again before you even touch your equipment.

I also recommend every loader take what they have learned from the manual and write up a set of reloading procedures that they are going to follow each time they reload, print it and use it as a checklist to make sure you don't get distracted and skip a step.

I suggest including steps such as:
* No food or drink at the reloading bench.
* No alcohol consumed in the past 12 hours.
* Only load one caliber at a time.
* Only one powder on the bench at a time.
* Only one bullet weight on the bench at a time.
Get in the habit of checking off each step before proceeding to the next and you will ensure that you aren't missing anything and you will have also created a documentary trail of your careful practice should something go wrong. Remember, you are making little pipe bombs. With due diligence and care you can craft some fine ammunition that will allow you to fully exploit the capabilities of the gun and your own talent. Done with a cavalier approach the results can be catastrophic.
 
locknloader wrote:
1. What are some "good brands" of brass?
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They're pretty much all "good".

Most handloaders will reload the factory brass that they shoot and they will add to their stock with brass picked up at the range left by people who don't reload as well as that purchased from sellers of so-called "once fired" brass. For example:

https://rangebrass.us/

http://www.leobrass.com/brass/

http://www.oncefiredbrass.com/

http://www.evergladesammo.com/

...and many, many others.

You will see posts by people who have a bad experience with one brand of brass or another and in their anger dismiss the entire brand as worthless. In time, you will find those brands that you prefer and those you don't, but they're all serviceable.

Also what makes some brass cheap vs other? What kind of corners are being cut in the manufacturing process that would make some brass inferior to others?
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In general, no "corners are cut" in manufacturing brass that conforms to SAAMI requirements. Imported brass is generally surplus production from companies that have the contract to supply their national military or police forces and so have their fixed costs covered and only need to cover their variable costs and so can sell cheaper. Domestic brass has the cachet of being "Made in the USA" and may sell for more because of that or because of brand recognition.

2. I noticed some surface rust on some of the exterior parts of the dies and press. Guessing this does not affect anything other than aesthetics, can i scrub it down and give it a coating of oil or something to keep it nice?
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Yes.

And a piece of unsolicited advice; don't ever ask on a forum like this "what is the best..." because all you will get is what someone else would buy for themselves if they could spend your money.

Ask me what the best car available is and I'll tell you it is a Cadillac SRX Premium for about $45,000. Ask me what I actually drive and I'll tell you a Hyundai Elantra GT purchased second-hand for $12,000.​

Always ask people why they are recommending what they suggest.

Ask me why I drive a second-hand Hyundai and I'll tell you that for driving back and forth to an office two or three times a week and to church on Sunday and with a teenage driver sharing the car with me, I wanted something I wouldn't cry over if it got into an accident and so I felt that a $12,000 used Hyundai was the BEST use of my money.​
 
So a few more questions i guess:

1. What are some "good brands" of brass? Also what makes some brass cheap vs other? What kind of corners are being cut in the manufacturing process that would make some brass inferior to others?

2. I noticed some surface rust on some of the exterior parts of the dies and press. Guessing this does not affect anything other than aesthetics, can i scrub it down and give it a coating of oil or something to keep it nice? I plan on getting some graphite powder to lube up my powder thrower and i already have some rubbing alcohol to wipe everything down.
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A lot of the cost difference with brass has to do with consistency. I will use two examples:

I shoot long range F-Class with a .300 win mag. My loads I develop for this are very accurate, like 1/4 MOA. I weigh each charge of powder, I weigh each bullet, and I make sure each case has: The same weight, the same volume, the same neck thickness, uniform primer pockets, uniform flash holes and is trimmed to the exact same length.

I have worked up loads in Norma brass which is about $1.50 each, and winchester brass which is about $0.50 each. The difference is, I have to put a lot more work into getting the Winchester brass to be as consistent as I described above. I have a lot of tools to work on cheaper brass to turn it into stuff thats as consistent as Norma or Lapua. I also have to buy at least 2x or 3x the amount of brass I am going to need so that I can cull some of it and sort it into batches.

With Lapua or Norma brass, it is all pretty much as consistent as I can make it right away.

Also, some brands like Lapua, have a reputation for durability. For instance, in my .338 Lapua Magnum, I first tried hornady brass and it was soft so at max loads it stuck in the chamber and I had to hammer it out with a cleaning rod. With HSM brass, it had no problem handling the load, but it wore out with loose primer pockets after 4-5 loads. With Lapua brass I got 10 reloads at Max pressure.

Its a cost/time/quality balancing act basically. With you being new, initially, I would buy quality brass like Lapua when accuracy is very important like long range shooting or hunting, and cheap stuff for short range targets and plinking. Experience will teach you a lot in this area.

But I will add this, brass brands often have different case capacities...so if you switch brands of brass (or any component for that matter including primers, bullets, and powder), You should re-work your load.



As for the rust, wipe it off or use some steelwool/wire brush to scrub it off and put a light oil coat on it to prevent it from happening again. Outside rust wont affect the internals of the die, but rusty threads are never a good thing.
 
I am going to go contrary to most.

Start reloading now. The AR10 (308) would be the easiest.

Most people get more from doing than reading.

Do follow the manual, then the reading parts starts to make sense.

Until you do reload, you will have no feel for it.

Don't worry about crimp in rifle, AR10 might need it, I shot 5.56 without doing it.

And yes, 30-06 and 308 can mix with the RCBS number 2 adaptor.

Buy small to start with, you or your gun may not like round and or powder.

While it does not matter a lot on brass, just don't buy a lot until you settle in.

RP is good middle of the road brass and is often bargain priced on once used.

PPU is good solid as well and cost is pretty good new.

While not of FC you can reload it 8 or 10 times before its gone.

Save 9 mm and 40 for last. Pistol is harder than rifle (crimp comes into play - best done as a separate step IMNSHO) - so do the rifle first and then the pistol.

Any primer works to start, I settled in on CCI but R, W and the rest will work.
 
@flashhole - yes i got off craigslist, from what i have been told by a friend who has been reloading for years i got a good deal for everything

I just happened to see the ad, good for you, you got a lot for your money.

I'm in Owego, NY about 20 miles west of Binghamton. If you are interested and within traveling distance I could show you how to handload.
 
The Speer #14 will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about reloading.

Put all the other stuff aside and spend a few days reading that manual and you will be armed with the most important asset a person can have: knowledge.
 
I'll throw a slightly different idea at you, watch some YouTube videos on reloading before you start. I think the ultimate reloader's videos are a good place to start. There are many other guys you could watch, I think he is pretty good at explaining the reloading process. Once you understand the process, your reading the manuals will make more sense.

Mike
 
Are the "76Highboy" beginning reloading series any good on youtube? He seems to know what hes talking about and explains and then shows what he is explaining. Not an in depth guide but certainly goes over the basics, and how to adjust the machine for common issues. I have been watching those videos for the past few days pretty much all day soaking in as much as i can.

I am an engineer by trade so this is not really intimidating to me, its just another machine and process that i need to learn.

I also seem to be on the right track from all the advice you guys are giving, which is read/learn before i start trying to crank out ammo. I have the mindset of staying safe and by the book, and then when i can do that in my sleep and have learned enough and talked to enough guys to start "pushing the envelope" then i will start making some mild adjustments to my loads.

I really don't understand the desire to create "hot" loads right out of the gate, maybe its a "cool factor" to brag about shooting the highest FPS but all i care about is hitting the target and getting good groups. I couldn't care less what other guys think about my shooting/ammo choices....
 
On the subject of brass, I've only ever encountered one type that I would consider unusable. In 9mm brass there is a type that when you look inside you see a definite step where the brass becomes very thick. This stuff is no good, very notorious for separating where this step is located. I believe the brand is Maxtec or something like that, maybe someone here can verify the brand name for sure. No matter the name, it's easily recognizable.
 
The video points are good ones. I am trying to remember if youtube was a "thing" back when I started loading, but watching the Lee instructional videos was *very* helpful. The information is in the books, but seeing it in action is really useful to speed the learning process.
 
Well I want to thank everyone for the advice so far. I finally got my bench built and was able to start playing around with my presses. I started with 9mm, stripped all my dies down and cleaned them good then went to town. I only loaded 20 rounds so I can make sure I did an OK job and didn't have to pull and repack a ton of bullets.

I have my de-cap/resize on my lee single press and all the other dies on the lock n load progressive. I ended up only doing 1 round at a time on the progressive and it was very easy to follow and get the hang of.

I am using hodgon tite group with 'berrys bullets' 9mm round nose copper jacketed.

I could not find that exact bullet on hodgon website so I used the 'LRN' which I assume was lead round nose and essentially the same as what I used mine just have copper jacket.

I loaded at the starting load of 3.9gr and measure each case, only notice .1 variation up to 4.0gr which I thought was acceptable.

One place I still have question is the overall length of the round (OAL). The SAAMI spec sheets I printed down have a min of 1.1" and max of 1.196". I measured some factor round (9mm NATO and some hollow points) and the OAL was all over the place, but within spec. The hodgon website called for 1.125" but I felt that was a little on the tight side of the spec and loaded mine around 1.150" to avoid any possible increased pressure.

A couple questions:

- is it normal for OAL to fluctuate a little while loading? Or should they all be dead on the money where I locked the dies in at?

- is OAL really that important against the powder makers spec, or as long as I am within the SAAMI spec and the rounds chamber and load from a mag I am good?


Everything else has been pretty straight forward, this is the only thing I still question.
 
locknloader it appears you are on your way.

I haven't used Titegroup so am not familiar with it. I have and use Berry's plated bullets. You do not say which weight bullet you are using and I don't want to guess.

I have used both the 115gr and the 124gr Berry's round nose with a OAL of 1.125" to 1.160" while using Hodgdon HP-38 with the heavier bullets being longer.

I have found while using Berry's bullets that the nose shape isn't perfect from bullet to bullet and I do see a variation sometimes of about .004" which I haven't worried about. I see a larger variation with factory boxed rounds.
 
@KMW1954 - I notice the same thing on the berry tips not being 100% uniform but nothing crazy.

Hopefully i can shoot them today and take notes.
 
locknloader said:
Hi guys, complete newbie here to reloading. I just purchased a bundle from someone with pretty much everything i need and had a few questions about the equipment i have.

I have a Frankford Arsenal tumbler with stainless steel media as well as a "classic tumbler" where you add in some media and it vibrates like mad.

Is there any advantage to one over the other? From the little research i have done the "classic tumbler" seems to be more messy and antiquated equipment and the Frankford Arsenal tumbler is the better one to use?
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I've never used stainless steel. I actually don't find it necessary to clean very often.

I also have a "bulge buster" kit for 40cal. I did some reading on this and understand that it happens due to unsupported barrels in glocks. Does this only affect 40cal or does it affect 9mm too? Is it all glocks that have this unsupported barrel or only certain models/years?
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Newer Glock 40s are said to be much better supported. If it's a big concern (and I can see where it might be. .40 load data I see is usually festooned with warnings about overpressure and seating depth.), get a Lone Wolf barrel for the gun. (But, be prepared to run the rounds through a Lee Factory Crimp Die for them to seat reliably.)


Still in the learning stage at this point, I have alot more reading to do before i even attempt to reload a round. My first step will be to completely tear down the presses and clean them, re-assemble and run dry until i have a firm understanding of the equipment.
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Back when, 20 years ago, I bought myself a copy of the current Lyman manual, and worked through that for concepts and procedures. That would be my recommendation.

I plan on reloading the following:
- 9mm
- 40cal
- 45 cal
- 223/556
- 308 (for AR10)
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.45 is very forgiving, a great big cup for powder. But, there are subtleties.

Any other pointers or essential reading would be much appreciated!

Thanks :)
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We now get into the next great adventure of reloading, and that is the bullets are erratic length!

We didn't tell you because new guys get discourage easily and think that this is not dead nuts exacting (and its not but what the heck)

The seater does not push on the tip, it pushes on the Ogive (shoulder) of the bullet.

The tips vary more than the Ogive and the Ogive varies a bit.

For pistol its just fine to average it ouit. 9mm can be tricky (aka pressure ) you want to watch it. Take your pistol apart and use the barrel to make sure they fit fine, you can even then play with how long you can make them, still fit the magazine.

For rifle there is a Horandy kit that actually measures the COAL Ogive, you need a decent micrometer to use it (not the plastic ones)

All my rifle OAL is listed in Ogive. There is still variation but its as close as it can get and that's close enough (remember this is not an exact thing) to not matter.
 
Thanks for the explanation on that, i have done some machining work before so i understand tolerances just want to understand the effects of going beyond/below a give tolerance will have.

What are some signs i should watch for that shows excessive pressure? I will be shooting these from a Walter P99c 3.5" barrel. I have shot 9mm NATO +P rounds from this gun so i know it can handle high pressure stuff and my starting loads should be mild in comparison.
 
Many different theories on presses, cause and effect, variations and so on. I stay out of that discussion for 2 reasons. First being is how accurate are the pressure signs. Second being how accurate am I at reading those signs.

I do not have a lab that I can use to read barrel pressures and I'm not going to guess if I'm at Max or over Max. I trust that the powder companies have done their part and have provided pretty accurate information for me to use. Heck Western in their data have also included load data for the 9mm +P, 38 Super +P, 38 Special +P, 45acp +P to use with their powders for those that have that interest..

For my own safety and peace of mind I do not load to max loads even if those loads have been shown to be safe or even below +P.
 
I don't think you should see pressure signs at all at the stated powder charge you're using. I use the same berry's bullets (115 gr.) and the same powder, TG, at 4.1 grains, and after over 2,000 rounds fired, I haven't seen any pressure signs at all.

But to try to answer your question, pressure signs would be cratering of primer (I check this by comparing a factory spent case from my gun vs. a reload), bulged cases, split cases, split case mouths on low count reloaded brass, and bulged primers. There may be a couple more signs I haven't mentioned; I just listed that off the top of my head.

But I've never seen pressure signs of any kind on any of my semi-auto pistol reloads, as I never load them near max charges. On a few of my .357 mag reloads, yes, but I was trying to inch up on a max load in that case.
 
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