New York Gun Case Verdict

From Reuters:

A federal jury in a landmark civil lawsuit Thursday found 15 handgun manufacturers negligent in their marketing and distribution practices.

Early in their sixth day of deliberations, the jury told Judge Jack Weinstein that one of them was holding out because he or she felt the verdict could "open the floodgates to lawsuits across the country."

In the closely watched case, the families of seven shooting victims in
Brooklyn sued gun manufacturers for negligence for allegedly glutting
certain markets with weapons, making it easier for criminals to obtain illegal guns.

The civil suit is the first to come to trial using the "negligent marketing" charge.

Weinstein told the jury to return to deliberations after he instructed them not to consider the effects of the verdict beyond "the evidence heard here and the law as I gave it."

The jury's revelation was a surprise to those watching the case. Late Wednesday, Weinstein warned the lawyers to prepare for a mistrial after the two men and nine women jurors called themselves deadlocked for a third time in two days.

But Thursday morning's note seemed to reflect a change in the mood of the jurors.

"After listening to the judge yesterday afternoon, 10 jurors decided to work together to reach a verdict," they said in the note. "One juror refused because he or she feels the verdict 'will open the floodgates of lawsuits across the country.' Could the judge address the importance of focusing on only the evidence in these seven cases?"

Plaintiffs' lawyers moved to remove the holdout juror, but the judge denied their motion. One defense lawyer complained that "the jury is horse-trading" based on its query Wednesday whether it should compromise on a verdict. The defense asked for a mistrial, but the judge also denied that motion.

During four weeks of testimony, the plaintiffs presented witnesses to support the theory that manufacturers send too many firearms to Southern states with weak handgun laws. The excess guns, they allege, end up in the hands of illegal traffickers who resell them in Northern states that have stricter laws.

The gun companies deny the accusation, saying they are being wrongly blamed for the criminal actions of individuals.

Among the defendants in the case are the No. 1 U.S. handgun maker, Smith & Wesson Corp. of Springfield, Massachusetts, a unit of British conglomerate Tomkins Plc, and Sturm, Ruger & Co. of Southport, Connecticut, the second-largest U.S. handgun maker.

The trial has unfolded as other municipalities have begun suing the gun industry for their costs related to violent crimes, with five suits already filed and more expected. The outcome of the Brooklyn case could influence whether local governments choose to use a similar negligent
marketing" theory.
 
What is not mentioned is that several manufacturers (10 out of 25) were cleared in the case. Furthermore, only one of the plantiffs is to recieve anything from the "guilty" manufacturers.

The one plantiff was awarded $4 million from the 15 "guilty" companies that were all deemed "partly responsible" for the negligent distribution of their products.

It will be interesting to see what the difference between the companies that were found guilty and the companies found innocent were.

Remember also that several wholesalers and distributors were removed as defendants in this case by the judge a few weeks ago. This could've been much worse for the industry.

If anyone has a list of the "guilty and innocent," please share.





[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 02-11-99).]

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 02-11-99).]
 
It is a shame that some stupid ass gangbangers are ruining our rights. Lets don't get rid of guns lets get rid of all of them that are causing the violence. Besides guns don't kill people, ignorant urban-dwellers that sell drugs and boast about respect do.

[This message has been edited by Virgil Cain (edited 02-11-99).]
 
And that particular plaintiff was awarded $500 thousand....not the millions they wanted

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Do you have a referrence, DC? Usually your info is right on, but I just heard CNN report that the plantiff was awarded $4 Million.
 
Rob...

ABC news on the radio...was listening to the Liddy show
**************************
My house is brown and if I heard on CNN that it was brown I would go outside and check ;)...CNN, news source of the baby milk factory and the sarin gassing of American troops by American troops
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"



[This message has been edited by DC (edited 02-11-99).]
 
I am seeing conflicting information. nytimes.com and msnbc.com say $560,000 and CNN.com says almost $4 million.

Either way it's not good news.

Tom
 
Here is latest:

In the seven cases, all manufacturers were found not guilty in 4 of them

In the other three, various combinations of the 15 "guilty" manufacturers were charged.

In only one case, the case of the surviving injured man, 3 manufacturers were found guilty and ordered to give a total of $4 million to that individual. My guess is that the $500k and other numbers represent portions that one of the three are being fined.

In the cases of the 6 families, even where manufacturers were found negligent, no money was awarded.

I have an Email in to the media relations guys at S&W and I'll talk to Glock tomorrow to hear how they made out. They should also have lists of the specific outcome. I'll post any further info as I get it.

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 02-11-99).]
 
Rob, you're right, it's not as bad as it could have been, but any victory of this sort is a major loss for the pro-gun/pro-self-defence people. i'm sure you'll agree this is just the first step of many bad things to come.. it's amazing how people can blame an inanimate object instead of the people using said object in an unlawful manner. to tell you the truth i'm very disgusted. :(

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fiat justitia

longhaircsa@netscape.net
 
How does this verdict balance against the Beretta victory in California? Mine and many initial thoughts were that if California, of all places, found for a gun manufacturer, New York might follow suit. Now what? How much of a balanced judicial precedent does this make?
 
Don..

The cases were based on different things. Beretta was a "safety" issue...the New York case contends that they have negligent and malicious marketing practices

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
I learned from the local AOL news page that a 19 year old who was shot in the head by a friend "accidentally" was awarded 560 thousand. It appears that most of the gun manufacturers were not found negligent but found guilty of negligent marketing ?????
The original reports just after the verdict indicated that most of the gun manufacturers were found not guilty and that the verdict was "mixed". Now the media is reporting that the gun manufacturers were found guilty!!!. If this verdict is not appealed and overturned I'll eat my K80 (well maybee not ;) ). It appears that the jury did not want to punish the manufacturers but maybee did not want a counter suit like the case in california.
The media is already distorting the outcome and has been turning up the anti gun noise. Last night channel 7 (NBC?) had an editorial where one of their reporters purchased an AR15 through the internet and the mail without going through an FFL. I had to listen to advertisements about this program all day on the radio including during the Rush Limbaugh program! The propaganda here in NY is real bad. I just wonder if it is time to dig out my old military gear yet ;)

[This message has been edited by K80Geoff (edited 02-11-99).]
 
I'ts me again. The injured 19 year old's name is Stephen Fox and he was awarded 560 thousand. None of the other plaintiffs got a dime.
An aol poll just taken with 5100 replies:
are gun makers liable yes 11.1%, no 87.5%.
does Atlanta have a case (safety) Yes 11.4%, No 85.9%
Should cities recoup costs of gun violence Yes 10.6%, No 88.9%. Will this verdict inspire similar suits Yes 89.6%, No 8.3%.
Doesnt the media look at polls? What planet are they on? where is my tin pot and webgear? ;)

[This message has been edited by K80Geoff (edited 02-11-99).]
 
The media doesn't give a ... hoot about polls, unless they show Comrade Clinton in a good light.

Certainly this case will be appealed. However, the damage is done in many ways, IMHO. If it hadn't been for the absurdity of the tobacco suits I wouldn't be so concerned. However, we have reached a point in our country where too many of our fellow citizens are absolutely unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. Consider the example this week of the fool in San Francisco that smoked 3 packs a day, and now she is awarded $51.5mm from the tobacco companies. This is not liberal ... this is insane.

I honestly fear this is the gravest threat to the RKBA in the history of our country. It can spin out of control in the hands of our friendly, local, blood-sucking trial lawyers. They will not restrain themselves, and they have significant political clout via contributions and their boy Clinton escaping conviction.

Many of you have a much stronger foundation regarding the history of the RKBA. Please help me find optimism.
 
Told you not to hold your breath,Rich. The manufacturers should take this all the way to the Supreme Court if need be.

Between these idiot jurors and the gutless Senators in Washington, I can't believe this is America anymore.

If this keeps up, we'll all be walking around with license plates on our asses and liability policies in our pockets.

EVERYONE & EVERYTHING is next.
 
According to the local news Here in NY among the 15 Manufacturers found guilty are Beretta USA, Colt and Jennings. Among the ten found not guilty S & W and Ruger.
Just think what will happen if the US manufacturers are run out of business by lawsuits. Most of them are in poor shape financially and it won't take mush to send several into bankruptcy. Where will our Military obtain firearms if they and their expertise are gone. Just a thought.
 
K80..
The point to all of this is to back door the 2nd Amendment. All this is focused upon denying the public (not LE or the military) firearms.
Make guns so expensive and regulated that only the very rich can have them; prohibit import of foreign made guns or make them adhere to the same conditions that domestic makers have to.
Next will be big cars and pickups..you just watch, insurance rates will go up because of the damage they may cause in an accident.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
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