new Winchester Model 1894 30-30

B.L.E. said:
" Looking through the gun library at the Cabelas in Buda, TX, around 1200 is what they seem to want for a common pre war .30-30 with a steel buttplate and a band around the forestock.Then there's the uncommon configurations and calibers.They have a capped pistol grip 26" octagonal barrel half magazine takedown model with a metal fore end cap instead of a band and factory checkering on both the pistol grip and forend in .30-30, circa 1921, they are asking $10,999."

"Pre Wars" certainly are another thing altogether, and yes most of them are asking (and mostly fetching) a pretty penny. As said, in general conversation most folks consider "Pre 64" to be Post-war (or during war at most) up to 1964.
The "Pre Wars" - especially ones that are noticeably different than the 1941-1950/51's (which some late Pre War carbines especially resemble), have a market mystique all their own. Specifically saddle ring carbines (SRCs) with the "old west" (66, 73, 92 etc) features of curved "carbine" butt, ring, oftentimes carbine ladder flip sight, and earlier (further forward) front barrel band with post sight--which was the normal configuration up to the 1930s or so (+/-)...when more started taking on what would become later the standard flat "shotgun" butt, ramped front sight and leaf rear ubiquitous with 94s right up to the 2000's.

Another distinction of course is model/configuration availability, primarlily - any rifle (as opposed to round barreled carbine) made before 1964--short, long, round,. octragonal, doesn't matter--is a Pre War with very few exceptions (special orders and maybe a commemorative or two, neither a common occurence 1941-64 and mostly the province of Post 64s). IOW, war and post-war production was almost entirely 20" round-barreled carbines. No rifles or even short (20" octagonal) rifles to speak of. IIRC, neither were there any factory Pre 64 (war and post war) "trappers" (aka baby carbines), which were mostly 16" round barreled SRC's and already a very limited commodity even Pre War. Originals of these represent one of the Winchester collector "holy grails" and are some of the rarest, most sought after--and hence precious $--regular production guns out there. Rarest among those are 12"-15" barreled examples, now requiring an exemption letter of course.

What are most often thought of as Pre 64s (again 1941-1964) are also divided into two general groupings - "long wood," which all carbines had from 1894 up to 1950 (and some 51s)...which is a longer extension of the forend piece ahead of the barrel band. After 1950/51 up to 1964 (and beyond), the standard carbines were all lessened to "short wood" configuration. Some Post 64's--again, commemoratives and some later AEs had the same long-wood feature, sometimes paired with something resembling the old front post sight -- both aspects again harkening back to the "old west" guns' configuration, and 16" "trapper" production also resumed some time Post 64 for the first time since the Pre War period. Clean "long wood" Pre 64's generally command a little more than same-condition "regular, run-of-the-mill" Pre 64's, being considered a bit more "vintage," having retained at least that one feature found on all Pre War carbines.
 
Last edited:
I went into Cabelas in person today during my lunch break, I work only about a mile away, and looked at some of the '94s in their gun library. They had one they were asking $12,999 for.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Gun-...nknown;cat103792680;cat105930180;cat103589280

I also looked at a couple of the "new 1894's", one by Miroku and another made by Winchester. Both were in "rifle" configuration. What immediatly stands out is how the trigger is so far forward in the trigger guard. It's sort of like the trigger on the transfer bar Ruger single action revolvers only the trigger does not go rearward when the hammer is fully cocked. There is a long trigger travel before it actually hits the sear, my guess is that this either raises a transfer bar or lowers a firing pin block.

My dad had a rifle configured '94 with an octagonal barrel, steel crescent butt plate, and it was chambered for .32-40. I killed my first deer with it when I was 11, so the "rifle" style '94s have a special place in my heart.
My brother has that gun now.
 
You're probably right but one of them didn't have the word "Miroku" anywhere on it, so I assumed it was made by Winchester.
The one that did have Miroku on it had a gold band inlay near the muzzle and Cabelas aniversary on the reciever in gold inlay. A little garish for my tastes, besides, I never have been a fan of contrieved to be collectors items commemorative guns.
 
Gaseousclay said:
"I think a more realistic price for a like-new pre-64 might be around the $700-800 range."

You're right on. A quick check in a Phoenix local ad shows one which I don't believe to necessarily that unusual--no doubt aided by a stagnant economy, to paraphrase "Pre 64, like new. $700." They make a point of "not refinished," and indeed it looks nice. No other detail shown, but the short wood configuration would strongly suggest dating of '51-'64. If someone wants a (presumably) truly nice one, that's not an unreasonable price at all. Wish I needed one or just had the funds for another! Btw, other ads that were more sparse of info averaged (unscientifically) $550-600 or so, with one IIRC $500.
 
There really is no "Winchester", it's just a brand name licensed by Browning from Olin Corp for FN.

Browning handles import, marketing, distribution, and service for Winchester-marked guns for FN.

Any new "Winchester" leverguns will be made by Miroku & should have Winchester on it somewhere. Now I think they're also stamping BAC for Browning Arms Corporation on the barrels, too.
Denis
 
According to an inflation adjustment calculator I found on the web, $700 2011 dollars equals about 78 1950 dollars so $700 to $800 is probably mostly just compensating for inflation more than this price reflects rarety or collectors interest.
After all, thirty-thirtys were like belly buttons, everybody had one.
 
If I felt compelled to get a new Winchester (Miroku) lever, it'd be the 92, if for no other reason than, incredibly, you have no other choice--with the Winchester name on it--until you go back as far as 1941 or so. AFAIK, until the Mirokus there were no "Winchester brand" 92s ever made from '41 til the Japanese plant was first commissioned to make some limited copies fifteen or so years ago (and the vaunted Browning-labeled ones before that). To me that's amazing for what arguably is in many ways Winchester's/Browning's finest/purest design...even considering what happened market-wise in the intervening years. The advent of the smokeless .30-30 rifle cartridge in the early 20th Century basically killed off interest and market for the pistol caliber levers--until cowboy shooting (CAS) created a new market in recent decades. The detail-fact that 92s were used almost exclusively in early-mid 20th Century western TV shows and movies was lost on most folks and regardless wasn't enough to keep the popular interest alive in the pistol round levers as the .30-30 continued its take over. Yes, later in the late 60s-70s, there was a smattering of Win 94s (and Marlins?) made in .44 Mag, but not enough to dent the .30-30 market. Not until a cowboy action shooting sport started to develop did import copies of the 92 really start to create a 92 (and resurrected 73) market again.

S0, the Miroku 92 has the proper form (the lawyer bits notwithstanding) and top-level fit and finish. Add the Winchester name and I can see a market for someone who wants the name, and the lineage that goes along with it (however circuitously derived). That only other Winchester choice, Pre War 92s, are now largely just pricey collector items if in decent enough shape to shoot regulasly, so don't really come into play for most in this market.

OTOH, as has been pointed out, many fairly affordable Pre 64 94s are still out there in decent shape, and.for a little less the Post 64 examples just prior to the USRAC take-over in 1981 or so, finally started to show signs of a return to the good ol' days. AND, if you insist on scoping there are still pre safety 1980s AE examples out there, as well as a decade's (+) worth of pre-Miroku (Connecticut plant) safetied 94s. No real need right now for a lawyered-up Miroku 94, especially at the prices asked.
 
Last edited:
I was thinking 92 too, till I found the firing pin changes, the internal trigger block addition, the rebounding hammer, the tang safety and so on. :)
Beautifully done, but...
Denis
 
A good gunsmith tuned up my Miroku made 1886 for me....best trigger and action feel I've ever experienced with a lever gun and I've played with an original 86 as well ! I have a very old 1894 with nickle steel octagon barrel in 25-35 that is a gunsafe queen.....very loose action , crappy trigger , but I love the rifle ! My Miroku made 1892 came with a very acceptable trigger and while I am not partial to the tang safety and rebound hammer its still a good shooter and is quality built ! My Marlin 1895 cowboy is a great shooter with cast bullets but the workmanship is not as good as the Miroku made Winchester brand rifles from what I see !
 
Dpris said:
"I was thinking 92 too, till I found the firing pin changes, the internal trigger block addition, the rebounding hammer, the tang safety and so on. Beautifully done, but..."

Not disagreeing, just saying IF you gotta have a new "Winchester" lever... :)
 
Yeah, if you gotta. :)
I'll just keep playing with my tuned up Rossi 92 when I want to do 92 stuff, my two older Winchesters, and my Marlins.

If FN had left the 92 design alone I'da picked up THREE of those. The original 92 was one of the best totin' carbines ever invented. :)
Denis
 
The older Winchester Model 94s may have been the quintessential American working man's rifle but the price of one was well above my father's weekly take-home pay (in 1962). And the price of a Japanese produced version is well above my own weekly-take home pay. So somethings haven't changed in the last fifty years.
 
I viewed 4 Wins today..all 30-30 calibers. 3 of the 4, were selling for $495. The other was selling for $295. ..the one for $295. has a saddle ring and some fancy designs on the receiver, it was in decent shape. Not sure of the model years for any of those Wins..but the one model, was a very late model which was drilled and tapped for a scope mounting...it also had a checkered Walnut stock and a hooded front sight...it was the nicest of all the models in my opinion and with a very smooth action but tight tolerance in it's craftsmanship.

The last 16yrs or so of the model 94, were very well crafted levers. In my opinion/experience, they were the best of the fleet for many reasons..but I know the Pre-64 lovers will not agree :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top