New way to sabatoge Iraq

B

Bruxley

New member
The Democrat leadership having failed to undermine Iraq via political means, failed to discredit General Petraeus, and having dipped into 11% aproval rating over their incompetent looking behavior have come up with a new, more nefarious method, baiting.

Pelosi is now hard at work baiting Turkey to attack northern Iraq and at the same time time working AGAINST the good diplomatic relations we have with Turkey. She wants to push a vote on the floor of the House for a resolution condemning Turkish acts against Armenia in WORLD WAR ONE as a genocide. Very important apparently to do this. It does nothing more then provoke Turkey while they are trying to get control over Kurdish rebels committing acts of violence across the Turkey / Iraq border.

If only Turkey were to invade northern Iraq. Then any and all progress that Petraeus had gained would evaporate, the war could be called out of control, and the shear incompetence of Congressional leadership would be overshadowed. In fact they could easily play it as "See, we told ya so" and you can bet that is the end game.

What business does the Speaker of the House have monkeying with international diplomacy? Pelosi and Reid can't even perform within their INTENDED duties but they think that they can take on MORE?

It's been almost 100 years since WWI and she feels like an inappropriate, dated, and insulting resolution with no force or power is the priority of the House right now??? What possible purpose does this have BUT to undermine Iraq?

This is why they are at 11% aproval. Chicanery is what this has been called before. Seems all they can do since leading isn't happening.
 
All I can say is that if one of our bordering countries decided to conduct "military" operations against our country at our borders...I wouldn't want Japan, China, NATO, UN or anyone else telling our government to not fight back.
 
Like what happens at the US / Mexico border regularly?
Militants, and sometimes Mexican Police, cross into the US and shoot at Border patrol.

This is veering off topic................
 
I thought that conspiracy theory threads were prohibited...

What possible purpose does this have BUT to undermine Iraq?
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Remember all the controversy about Blackwater recently? A few days after that incident two Armenian Christian women were killed in Iraq by people working for a different security company.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=85990

Don't you think that might have something to do with it?

The Turks have always been at war with this group. It didn't suddenly start with this genocide resolution.
 
It's been almost 100 years since WWI and she feels like an inappropriate, dated, and insulting resolution with no force or power is the priority of the House right now??? What possible purpose does this have BUT to undermine Iraq?
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I fail to see how labeling history properly is "insulting" to anybody...no more than recognizing the holocaust as a genocide is insulting to Germany. As for insulting resolutions with no force or power, I guess those are only okay as a priority when they target partisan political groups like Moveon.org.

As for what possible purpose it has? To an extent I agree, that while this is something I wouldn't mind seeing happen eventually now may or may not be the best time for it. Then again, I do consider it the "right thing" to do and I don't believe in doing the right thing only when it's politically convenient. Plus, this is a bit of an issue nowadays because it ties in with Turkey's attempts to gain full membership in the EU; I believe recognition of the Armenian Genocide, which they refuse, is (or at least was) a condition of their acceptance.

Lastly, recognition of the Armenian Genocide is hardly a controversial issue...if wikipedia is to be believed pretty much the entirety of the EU as well as 40 out of 50 US states have already officially done so.

*shrug*

As for the Iraq angle, sounds like looking for conspiracies where there are none to me.
 
Yeah, 'ol Nancy doesn't look real competent these days. In between holding hearing after hearing to investigate global warming, and doing her best to see that a vital ally on the war on terror is utterly insulted, Nancy has not accomplished too much. Well, except for continuing to properly fund the war in Iraq. That's one actual accomplishment, I suppose.
 
All of this cloak-n-dagger stuff is costing billions and placing our soldiers in danger now, and for PTSD in the future. Fish or cut bait.

My riding buddies have a merciless and diabolical plot.

We send them good looking girls and Coca Cola.

Of course, then we have to feed and clothe 20 million Iraqi refugees.

This dirty little war has taken longer than it took to bring both Germany and Japan to their knees. Fry 'em, and get it over with.
 
Like what happens at the US / Mexico border regularly?
Militants, and sometimes Mexican Police, cross into the US and shoot at Border patrol.
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Exactly...and I never said that we shouldn't fight against this insurgency into our country. I have said we need to fight it, as a matter of fact.
 
The Democrat Chairmen of the House Intelligence and Armed Services Committees, along with 38 other House Representatives, have sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi apposing the resolution. Jack Murtha even publicly apposes it.

I ask the defenders, what business does the Speaker of the House have monkeying with international diplomacy or 'correctly labeling history'?

Leadership of chicanery? It's one or the other.

If it's NOT another attempt to undermine Iraq then what IS the end game?
 
I ask the defenders, what business does the Speaker of the House have monkeying with international diplomacy or 'correctly labeling history'?
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Good question. I'm not entirely gung-ho about defending it as far as Congressional power goes, though I'm not entirely sure they specifically don't have the power to enact such a resolution.

If it's NOT another attempt to undermine Iraq then what IS the end game?
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Joining the rest of the civilized world (and 80% of our own states) in recognizing the Armenian Genocide? Taking a role in the preservation of a truthful account of history?

Not everything is about Iraq.
 
If it were some moral imperative, as it is presented, rather then a provocation of Turkey, as it is manifesting, then where are the voices of these 80% of nations? No UN resolutions, no outcry from Armenia over this 100 year old act of old Turkey.

It IS about Iraq to Democrat leadership. It is where their political capital is staked and currently in peril.

The Democrat leadership's record is currently 11% leadership - 89% chicanery. It IS all about our losing in Iraq to the MoveOn Democrats in leadership. It is splitting the party and frankly Pelosi and Reid need to resign their leadership positions before single digit aproval ratings become a Republican super majority in Congress.

Then again, why would that be a bad thing?
 
I think thats a waste of our tax dollars. WW1 was over 90 years ago. Its history, not current events. If our goverment has time to hash out stuff like this, then I think they have too much time on their hands. I'm sure there's some roadside garbage in DC that needs to be picked up. I think they'd be using our money more wisely if they did that instead.
 
If it were some moral imperative, as it is presented, rather then a provocation of Turkey, as it is manifesting, then where are the voices of these 80% of nations? No UN resolutions, no outcry from Armenia over this 100 year old act of old Turkey.
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It could be because we're late to the party. Though apparently I was wrong, and a significant portion of Europe has yet to recognize it. But there has been an international outcry to recognize it, and both the Armenian nation and Armenians outside Armenia have been a part of that.

Also, I believe there are still significant tensions between Armenia and Turkey over this as well...not just due to the actions of a former state a century ago (though obviously that will play some role) but also largely due to the failure of the current government of Turkey to even admit to what happened.

Again, I'm not seeing how it must be some attempt to provoke Turkey in order to undermine the effort in Iraq. It's entirely possible that it's simply something else that happens to be going on in the world at the moment (the recognition of it by various nations/bodies and the denial by Turkey) and that they've opted not to put off action on it due to the war in Iraq. Which makes sense; we cannot simply drop anything that might be inconvenient due to our occupation of Iraq, especially since that occupation could well last for another decade.

It IS all about our losing in Iraq to the MoveOn Democrats in leadership.
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If you're going to state this as fact, I assume you have some evidence, rather than opinion/conjecture, to back it up?

I think thats a waste of our tax dollars. WW1 was over 90 years ago. Its history, not current events. If our goverment has time to hash out stuff like this, then I think they have too much time on their hands. I'm sure there's some roadside garbage in DC that needs to be picked up. I think they'd be using our money more wisely if they did that instead.
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Out of curiosity, what was your position on the condemnation of MoveOn.org? Worthy of their time? Because while that may qualify as "current events" I'd hardly say it was a pressing issue...in fact, regardless of "currentness" I'd say that the recognition of a genocide when the perpetrating nation continues to deny it is probably more important, even 100 years later.

Though of course perhaps you feel that both were a waste of time, which is fair. But some here seem to think the condemnation of MoveOn.org was vital, while this is somehow a waste of time. I simply cannot reconcile the two.
 
It appears you are defending an admittedly unrecognized non-issue.

Southerners still have tension here. So what. Generational resentment passed on to child after child and eventually morphed into an atrocity.

Let's go back to the questions of what business the Speaker of the House has in international diplomacy. She can't lead the House but she's going to lead internationally?

She has reached the point of being summarily dismissed due to being consistently and transparently being either disingenuous or intellectually dishonest. Let's hear about Pelosi's leadership vs her chicanery. Which list fills up faster and gets longer.

Tip O'Neil was the last effective Democrat Speaker. How does Pelosi measure up? Let's hear about some examples of Pelosi leadership and some examples of Pelosi chicanery.

Off grid for a while.......will see you all in a few days .........
 
It appears you are defending an admittedly unrecognized non-issue.
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Admittedly unrecognized non-issue? Um...it is recognized, by many nations, most of our states, and several of our ex-presidents as an issue. There is a reason that presidents Ford through Reagan all made a point to officially refer to it as a "genocide." George H.W. Bush referred to it as a "crime against humanity." Yet our current President refuses to do so (as did Clinton).

Personally I fail to see how Turkey is such an important ally that we are willing to overlook their flat denial that a genocide occurred here.

Let's go back to the questions of what business the Speaker of the House has in international diplomacy. She can't lead the House but she's going to lead internationally?
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Well, if the President refuses to acknowledge this I don't see why Congress can't. So unless you can show me that this is not within their actual power to do, I don't see the issue. Yes, I agree that there are probably better things they could do with their time...then again, I could say that about a great many things that either chamber of Congress is doing at any given time...probably including some you agree with. Sometimes politics is funny like that.

I see you're slowly stepping away from the conspiracy angle. Good idea.
 
Originally posted by The Tourist: This dirty little war has taken longer than it took to bring both Germany and Japan to their knees. Fry 'em, and get it over with.
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So you want to kill millions of innocent people because there are terrorists living amongst them? That will make a lot of friends worldwide. Its funny as the discussion is about genocide and here you are advocating genocide.

If Turkey wants to be a part of the European Union then they have to admit their crimes. Thats the rules the EU plays by and we want to support the EU as a nation it seems. Who are we to judge them? We have our own genocides in our history not to mention Americans clamoring to commit another one in Iraq.
 
Looks like ol' Nancy is backing off of the silly resolution. Nice timing, Nancy. :rolleyes: Even ultra-lib Murtha doesn't think that it is a good idea.

Nancy doesn't care about whether Turkey is in the EU, or about native americans, or anything other than attempting to embarass Turkey with a silly, irrelevant resolution.

But what the heck, Turkey is a vital ally on the war on terror, so why shouldn't Nancy insult Turkey? After all, it'll make things more difficult for our President and our troops in Iraq, which is what Nancy and MoveOn are all about.

Oh well, time for Nancy to schedule another hearing on global warming. Perhaps Nancy can investigate Turkey's carbon footprint. :rolleyes:
 
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