New Way of Thinking

If someone can't determine the difference between a game and real life, they have no buisness in society what so ever. It's not the game's fault, it's the parent's who don't watch what their child is involved in.
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Well younger kids brains arnt fully developed and they cant seperate between a game or movie and real life. :(

And yes I do belive its the parents fault for feeding them these things and not talking to them to show them how it might be fun on a game but its not a good thing in real life. :(

Dimitri
 
RevJim said:
Could you pull the trigger on a 12 year old?
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A man once told me a story, I'll keep my recount pithy: In Vietnam this man was faced with a situation where he had to shoot a child. He was standing on a cliff, about 25ft high or so. I don't remember the particulars of why he was standing there - irrelevant anyway.

He turned around to find a boy, by his estimate about 12-14 yrs old, pointing a rifle at him. He shot that boy. It's an ugly memory for him, and it disturbs him deeply. He knows he made the right decision, but he also knows the result of that decision is ugly, and he has to live with that until he passes on.

I know this story has to do with a war setting, but in its most basic form, it's still about that split second decision you must make, which will determine whether you live or die. Allowing certain details to slow his decision-making process may have resulted in his death.

In no way is this post an endorsement not to consider all variables before taking someone’s life. I will say that certain variables should be given more credence than others.

Life or death. No middle ground. Harsh decisions often have harsh results. Ain’t life grand.
 
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Who was the actual trigger man? I'm willing to bet that it was the 17 year old. Maybe the 12 year old was just along for the ride. I'm not saying it isn't possible, especially since he probably has a very limited concept of right and wrong and consequences.

To be perfectly honest, I would probably hesitate to shoot a 12 year old. I feel there is a big possibility that it is either a toy gun or a pellet gun. I would tell him to not point that thing at me but I would try to see if it was real before just blowing him away. If it is a real gun, I guess I risk getting shot. Its not every day you have a 12 year old walking around with a real gun. If he fired a shot, I would gladly return the favor.

As for the dealership allowing 17 year olds to test drive $75,000 cars, they must be out of their minds. The kid probably just got his license. If this was Palm Beach or Beverly Hills, I would probably say they kid could cough up the dough, but Arkansas?

As for the salesman carrying a weapon, it might not have done much good. On most test drives I have gone on, the salesperson often takes the front passenger seat. If someone in the back seat whipped out a gun and put it to the back of your head, what chance do you have of drawing and returning fire? Maybe if you are the ultimate armchair warrior or mall ninja, you could dodge the bullet and reach back to break the guy's neck with the quick flick of your wrist. Sadly, being armed does not always save us. Even if the salesman was doing a vehicle demo and driving the car, he couldn't do much if the passenger pulled out a gun on him. I think there was a recent thread on this... Can you draw and fire, without getting killed, if someone already has a gun leveld at you?

Society really is going to hell in a hand basket. In this case, it was a $70k+ BMW instead of a basket. Maybe I should stop playing so much Grand Theft Auto.
 
While it is hard to shoot a minor in self defense, the problem is they are more likely to kill you than an adult. A least some adult may be smart enough to think, "I'm not killing this saleman for a joyride in a $70,000 car." Kids are naive, even the evil ones, They think everything is like TV and the Movies. I would be more worried that a kid with a gun will kill me, so to see my family again I would have to kill him.
 
How many times would you even dream that a 12 year old would shoot you?
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That's a nightmare, not a dream...

I would if all the requirement were met for my deadly force requirement. No hesitation - afterall, as has been discussed - juveniles are just as and sometimes moreso dangerous than adults.
 
Is that a medical fact? Are you a neurologist?
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No I am not a neurologist. This is the best I can remember from what I was taught in grade 11 psycology :cool: Well that and the fact I know quite a few kids who are younger (aged 8 to 12) that cant tell the difference between real life and fantisy/movies. :) I belive its called cognitive development donno though I took the course 3 years ago. :p

And who is Leiberman ?? :confused:

Dimitri
 
Leiberman is a demokrat who blames video games for youth violence. Also, I remember that when I was 10 I knew the difference between make belive and reality. So does my 5 year old niece, not that I think she should be playing doom 3.
 
Leiberman is a demokrat who blames video games for youth violence. Also, I remember that when I was 10 I knew the difference between make belive and reality. So does my 5 year old niece, not that I think she should be playing doom 3.
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Hey I am not saying everyone is affected by them but alot of the kids who do bad things seem to have been effected by them from the ones I know :(

Anyways I am not supporting that guy as he probrobly wants all "violent" vedio games banned and God knows I like playing ocassionally my Xbox with a good war/action game. My personal favorite is SW: Battlefronts 1 :D

Dimitri
 
I try to keep in mind that one Alphonse Capone was out terrorizing, assaulting, and killing folks as early as age 13 or 14, according to one or more biographers. He was part of an urban ethnic youth gang, and murder for hire, or as part of a robbery, paid better than more petty types of crime. Apparently a few of his less famous contemporaries did the same thing, as did the gangsters of 10, 20, or 80 years later. Many got an equally early start on that path in life.

Guess what I'd done if I'd been that car salesman in Texarkana?
 
Could you pull the trigger on a 12 year old?
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Absolutely. I have a wife and a family to take care of. I will not let a killer, regardless of age, make my wife a widow.

I didn't say it would be easy to do, but I have a very high level of desire to live. Adults have the right to ensure their survival, regardless of the age of the thug that is trying to kill them.
 
Threat

I don't think car salesman should be packing. Yes I could shoot anyone that had a loaded weapon pointing at me. But what are you going to do?
 
wth

I don't think car salesman should be packing.
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What do you do for a living? Maybe you should not packing either!

Also, its very easy to SAY you would do something, another matter entirely to DO it when the SHTF.
 
I work with behaviorally disturbed children on a daily basis.

Children develop cognitively and socially at different rates. We have 5th graders that have the mental abilities and associations than a "normal" 3 or 4 year old more than likely possesses.

I have seen children do horrible things to themselves, adults, peers, and even lash out towards me. I have seen an 8 year old try to slash another classmate's throat with a pair of scissors. He was mad because the other child had apparently taken a playing card of his.

Honestly, some of the things these children witness or are a part of is terrible. Some are sexually abused, foster parented, beaten regularly, starved, witness murders in their family, and probably have mild mental disabilities. I do not condone their actions, but I understand where they come from. It is a very sad part of our society.

The main problem I believe is the parents. They are not capable of handling themselves, let alone a growing child that might have cognitive delays or other physical problems. They live in abusive environments. Their homes are falling apart and there is no adult presence whatsoever. Sometimes there are 12 kids raising each other. It's horrible and can cause terrible mental issues, violence issues, and a general distaste for human life.

It is bothering to me that these young kids will grow up and not really be a part of society. I personally know teachers whose students have murdered people, raped women and children, and basically become outlaws. In our schools today we have sexual assaults in elementary and middle school age groups. It's sickening. You try to help them day by day, week by week, but often it might not work. When the kids grow up they turn to violence because that is what they know.

Bad parents=bad kids. No way around it. This has always been a problem, but I believe with a more encroaching media and much more "PC" ways of handling education, our youths look more terrible than ever.

All I can say is, kids are capable of terrible, terrible things.

Do what you have to do to stay alive. You can think about "what-if" for the rest of your life.
 
threefivesevenmag,

+1

The main problem I believe is the parents.
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I agree with that completly. Even if the parents dont abuse there kids letting them get away with everything and not teaching them right and wrong can be just as bad to a kids development as being abusive though. Hense my point about music/movies/vedio games. :)

PS I am not a Leiberman supporter! Just incase I get called that agian ;)

Dimitri
 
Rev. Jim
As Christians, you and I both understand the concept of Original Sin. It's doesn't happen after your 18, it comes with you at birth inherited from fallen Adam. That includes 12 year olds and 1 year olds.
 
I hate to go off topic about this but this thought is related to the thread...

So what do we do about these messed up kids? Do we try them as adults regardless of what terrible stuff has happened to them during their childhood to make them these monsters? Do we try their parents for not teaching them better? I'm sure there are some messed up kids with good parents that just don't know how to control them. I have cousins by marriage that were adopted by my wife's uncle and aunt. They have some serious issues even though they were never abused (A little spoiled maybe but never abused). One of them has ADHD and a myriad of other problems. The other is smart af a fox and crafty as one too. This is a really tough situation. Is it possible to rehabilitate these kids or does sending them to juvenile detention centers just harden them and surround them with more messed up kids.

There probably is no right answer for this but I really don't buy the fact that these kids don't know right from wrong. Maybe their reality is somewhat warped but I just don't buy the "I didn't know any better" BS. If a kid points a gun at me, I guess I will have to default to my basic self preservation mode. If I can disarm him, I will do so. If I can't... well, I guess I'll have to do what I'll have to do.
 
Doug,
I am also a Christian and understand that we are all born into sin. But I don't see how that affects children in a way that makes them predisposed to evil actions. Evil, like good is a part of us all. What brings out either side is as three five seven put it, positive or negative parenting. Garbage in, garbage out. Although I certainly don't believe that in every bad kid is a good kid waiting to come out. Once a kid has been taught things one way or another, it's practically impossible to unlearn him/her from those things.

I seem to remember that our justice system was much more harsher on parents when their kids under 18 broke laws than it is today. Presumably the reasoning was a common sense one. If the kid is bad, it is due to bad parenting, therefore the parents have to suffer the price. Nowadays though I notice more and more kids being tried as adults even under the age of 18. Does this mean the laws have changed?
 
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