New re loader here with questions

S

SkipperT

Inactive
I just bought a Lee Classic Turret press kit.
9mm dies
Bullseye and tight group powder.
115 gr cooper plated Berry's bullets
My question,, any load data/recipes for Bullseye powder with these projectiles?
In fact for the tight group as well?
I would have thought for as long as these plated bullets have been on the market there would be tons of data but I am not finding a lot.
I plink and shoot IPSC every week and thought this would be a money saver over time.
I am excited to get started but have no wish to hurt myself or my firearms.
Any thoughts or experience would be much appreciated.
Thank you
 
SkipperT said:
I just bought a Lee Classic Turret press kit.
9mm dies
Bullseye and tight group powder.
115 gr cooper plated Berry's bullets
My question,, any load data/recipes for Bullseye powder with these projectiles?
In fact for the tight group as well?
I would have thought for as long as these plated bullets have been on the market there would be tons of data but I am not finding a lot.
I plink and shoot IPSC every week and thought this would be a money saver over time.
I am excited to get started but have no wish to hurt myself or my firearms.
Any thoughts or experience would be much appreciated.
Thank you
Click to expand...
Start off by getting yourself a couple of reloading manuals. Also if you do a search for those powders and add load data to the search you will come up with some

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

I ran into the same problem when i first started, you will find that often you need to find a comparable bullet that is listed in reliable sources and tweak from there.

I agree it's kinda BS that these plated bullets have been around for so long and hodgdon can't update their site with more than 1 bullet per weight it seems.
 
115 gr cooper plated Berry's bullets
My question,, any load data/recipes for Bullseye powder with these projectiles?
In fact for the tight group as well?
I would have thought for as long as these plated bullets have been on the market there would be tons of data but I am not finding a lot.
Click to expand...

With plated bullets, you use lead bullet data. Hope that helps.

Don
 
Berry's site tells you exactly what data to use for their projectiles; they just will NOT give you load data.
 
Welcome to TFL SkipperT.

I'll start by saying that I like your combination. Bullseye or TiteGroup under 115g plated bullets are both great combinations in 9mm for your application (range shooting & competition). So you started off right.

As for data; Speer #14 shows:

Bullseye from 4.2 to 4.7 grains
TiteGroup from 4.1 to 4.5 grains

Starting at the low end should yield something close to your needs (if not, making it). Their GDHP bullet was set to an OAL of 1.125"; and their RN bullet was set to an OAL of 1.135". You said you have a Berry's bullet; but didn't mention the bullet profile (RN or FP). If it's the RN, then your OAL would likely be close to the 1.135; if it's a FP, then your OAL would likely be close to the 1.125.

These Speer bullets are a thick plate. Yours are a thin plate. So it would be advised to not run your charge weights to the top of the scale. Keep 'em on the mild side. Running them mild suits your application anyway.

Plated bullets are not lead. Plated bullets are not jacketed. They are relatively new in the shooting world. Their original intent was a non-barrel-leading (and all the other drawbacks that goes along with shooting straight lead) alternative to straight lead bullet applications. They were never intended to be driven as hard as jacketed bullets. But almost as soon as they came out, loaders started doing so. Driving plated bullets too hard can cause plating breakdown, resulting in copper and lead fouled barrels - defeating their intended purpose. BTW, driving plated bullets too hard is a function of pressure, not velocity. So when the box says "Max velocity 1250 fps" or whatever, it's an oversimplification. Velocity is not a function of peak pressure. But I digress . . .

Turns out, you opened up a point ongoing debate with your first post. As a mostly revolver shooter, when I read statements like "With plated bullets, you use lead bullet data," makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. That statement by itself without any clarification is a bit reckless. It is extremely important to understand that a plated bullet proceeds down the barrel with more friction than a lead bullet. That difference in friction rarely comes into play - but you need to know and understand it. In 9mm it won't likely make any difference. But in a revolver, with the barrel/cylinder gap bleeding off gases, using low end lead data can result in a bullet stuck in the barrel. Either way - loading for semi-auto or revolver - it's information you need to know and always keep in mind.

When I load plated bullets (and I do - a lot), I use jacketed data (or Speer's thick plate, as above), with the understanding to simply not drive them too hard; i.e. stay off the top of the scale. I prefer this approach.

So I don't mean to complicate things; nor do I mean to start a firestorm. I'm just presenting information that I believe is important for a plated bullet loader to know. Keep in mind that most lead data and jacketed data have a lot of "overlap." It's not like a lead table and a jacketed table will be completely different. What I'm saying is to just be aware that a plated bullet doesn't behave like a lead bullet going down the barrel. When you're making your first rounds in a work up, and you're starting low, just make sure you're feeling recoil and seeing a bullet impact point (be it the paper target, the ground, whatever).
 
Welcome to the wonderful, oft confusing and frustrating world of reloading!

Read/study;

1. The ABCs of Reloading
2. Lyman 50th.
3. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook
4. Reread the instructions for your press.

After you have read and studied your literature;

5. Find a load of powder, primer and bullet in your manual before you
buy any components.
6. Use load data from your manuals only.

A couple of hints, I removed the auto index feature from my Lee turret and hand indexed it and for me seemed to go much smoother, which would benefit a new reloader. As for plated bullets, just find a comparable cast lead bullet (size, shape and weight) and use that data. I used lead data for the 1,100 plated bullets I tried, and they worked like they were advertised (but there didn't seem to be any benefits over my cast lead bullets or my jacketed bullets so I haven't purchased any since).

Go slow. Double check everything. And most important have fun!
 
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...when I read statements like "With plated bullets, you use lead bullet data," makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. That statement by itself without any clarification is a bit reckless. It is extremely important to understand that a plated bullet proceeds down the barrel with more friction than a lead bullet.
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more wrong, Nick C S. The amount of friction difference between a cast lead bullet and a plated bullet is negliable. In addition, lead bullet loads using the same type and weight of bullet use lesser amounts of powder to reach the same velocity as jacketed bullets. You really need to research reloading cast and plated bullets more.

Don
 
Plated bullet makers tell you use high lead to low-mid jacketed data and to not exceed 1200 fps
 
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stuff

Second that advice; research and determine exactly what components you wish to use based upon reloading recipes, needs and availability...then, make your purchase.

Buying prior to narrowing down the load you want to use is putting the cart before the horse.

Good luck.
 
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

The most comprehensive and complete Plated bullet reloading data I have found to date!

USSR I totally disagree, just study the load data provided in the link above. I also do agree with Nick that Plated bullets and Cast Lead bullets are in no way the same. Again refer to the link above. If they were the same and were to be loaded the same there would be no need for separate Cast load data and plated load data same then that there would be no need for Western to list loads for both Berry's and Rainiers of the same weight yet have different loads. Then throw in the Berry's wild card with their Hollow Base Thick Plated and there is nothing else in the market like it.

I can find many published load differences listed for Lead bullets that are much below the starting loads that Western has listed for plated.

Also many state to use Speer Gold Dot data for plated bullets. Now check them against the loads listed by Western for Berry's or Rainiers.

I have tried using cast lead data for a number of Plated bullets because I am loading Plated bullets exclusively and 90% of the time the cast bullet starting load will not fully cycle the slide on my 9mm's.
 
"...with these projectiles..." You need data for a 115 cast or plated bullet. Doesn't matter who made it.
"...they just will NOT give you load data..." Means they don't test anything. They do say to use any data with Standard Plate Bullets max velocity- 1,250 fps. and thick plated (TP) max velocity- 1,500 fps.
"...Bullseye from 4.2 to 4.7 grains..." That is for jacketed bullets. and is directly from Alliant's site. No Bullseye cast data on their site. Only ever used 121 grain cast bullets with Bullseye myself.
"...are in no way the same..." Nope, but plated are in no way jacketed either. Plated bullets are such a gigantic nuisance.
 
Personally, I don't recommend plated bullets to new reloaders. Not enough easily found information/data. I have seen perhaps hundreds of questions on forums about "where can I find loads for my plated bullets?", "how do I crimp my plated bullets?", and "can I use max. loads in my 357 with a plated bullet?".

For a brand new reloader I usually suggest a lain old jacketed bullet as a start and when the new guy gets the hang of reloading, a few hundred rounds, then he can branch out to other bullets, powders, etc....
 
Fail to see how starting with a plated bullet is any harder than any other and as far as I am concerned much easier than starting with cast lead in a 9mm. There is plenty of data available just need to look. The link I provided is a great start. Even Hodgdon is now showing some data for plated. Crimping plated in an auto loader is no different than the crimp for a jacketed bullet. Would not roll crimp as there is no provision for it with a plated bullet.

Not enough easily found data may be the case with certain powders like Alliant so I just avoid those powders because there are plenty of powders that do list data.

Someone also suggested matching powders, bullets, primers for what you want to do before you buy. Makes the most sense to me.

I know some of you here have a real aversion to plated bullets, I happen to enjoy them and believe the advances with toxic elements, lead, plated will only grow in availability and use which will also drive the availability of published load data.
 
Sorry but to me all that proves is that Hodgdon isn't going to work up load data for the many different plated bullets now on the market whereas it appears that Western/Accurate has taken the time and effort.

Instead they will issue and publish a blanket statement. If that is what you want to go with then by all means feel free. I see and experience them quite differently.

As someone else also mentioned that if looked into one can find cast lead and jacketed bullets that overlap each other.
 
Wow, Thank you all for the comments.

OK I certainly have the horse waaaayyyy out in front of the cart.
Bullets and power not specifically used together in either 3 of the manuals I have, Lee's 2nd edition, Lyman's 50th, and a small 9mm manual called One Book/One Caliber.
Rookie,,, and showing it!! LOL

I picked up a good set of calipers, and an electronic scale to go with the one that came in the kit.
My plan;
50 to 100 cases
Set up the turret press up, keep the index rod out to start and de-cap, resize and re-prime until I have a true feel for it.
Rotate the die and flare the case, place the empty auto loader on top and just check the function. Again for all the cases.
The bullet seat and crimp die I will adjust when I actually make a round. I am pretty sure there will be a sacrifices to the loading gods. LoL

As to the loads, I am reading the manuals, taking notes and believe I will figure this out without to many issues. Fingers crossed.

I really can't Thank You all enough!
 
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