NEW OWNER OF A S&W 952 9mm ! help ?

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The "American Rifleman" reported in its latest issue that S&W required a Form 4473 for the rebate request to be valid. However, I saw a copy of the S&W rebate certificate, and there wasn't a word on it about the 4473. Moreover, the owner of the local mom-and-pop gunshop, an S&W stocking dealer (until such time as the pact is enforced), stated that a 4473 wasn't needed--only a sales receipt with the place of purchase.

I've heard from a local S&W buff that the response to the rebate offer exceeded expectations, and that therefore S&W may repeat the offer in the near term. Considering how much personal information is required on the 4473, it'd be interesting to know whether it plays a role in the S&W rebate process, past or future.

[This message has been edited by elector (edited October 17, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaho:
I took four pistols with me today; My Sig 210, my Browning custom high power 9mm, my tricked out Glock 19, and finally my NEW S&W 952. I put a total of 200 rounds of WIN USA 115g through them all at 25 yards. I concluded that the 952 is by far the best 9mm I have ever owned and shot with. It was the most accurate and had the most consistant groups. Also it was by far the smoothest with least fealt recoil. Now as far as this post goes, please, If you have anything to say about S&W post it in the correct forum. This is a post about pistols and only pistols. As far as walt, feathers and Gewehr98, thank you for your support. Anyway, I will do more tests especially with low velocity target ammo soon. Oh by the way you guys should have seen what happend at glocktalk when I posted about my new S&W. The moderator kept deleting personal attack posts, it was brutal. [/quote]

I really like the way that you put "NEW" in your post, yet you try to TELL people to not say anything about *&*. Talk about a hypocrite! That's not just with this message, but with buying a *&* too. SamC
 
feathers - Your logic is flawed and cloudy at best. The hostility towards S&W and their supporters isn't about keeping someone from owning guns or even buying the guns they want. The purpose behind the S&W boycott is to show other manufacturers that we won't support them if they make the same decisions S&W did. The purpose is to show them that they can't survive without our support. We can't make the boycott work if people continue to sustain S&W by throwing their money at them. Have you read the terms of the S&W agreement? They're absolutely appauling. If all manufacturers take a similar deal and adhere to the terms, all gun dealers will have no choice but to sell their wares under those terms. I don't know about you, but I kinda like being able to walk into a gun store and buy pre-ban mags. I don't want to have to pass a proficiency test before I can buy a new gun. But that's where we're headed if all the other manufacturers see that they can make deals that threaten our rights and then get away with it.

[This message has been edited by ether (edited October 17, 2000).]
 
I wasn't going to get involved in this as there are a number of other members who I have come to respect that have a different viewpoint on this matter but I feel that feathers has a valid point. First off, we can't afford to keep losing major gun makers. Last year it was Colt that pulled out of the civilian market. This year, we are forcing S&W out of business. If Gore, get elected, I'm willing to put money on it that a few more will also fall away for one reason or another. Little by little HCI is getting their way and as far as S&W is concerned, we are doing the work for them. They couldn't put S&W out of business with lawsuits so they're counting on our boycott to do it for them.

We can stand here and proudly say that we did away with a traitor but the point of the matter is that they are a privately owned company (owned by a non-US firm no less). They are merely doing what our government has asked them to do. If we don't like it, we need to attack the source of the problem and elect officials who will support our rights.

Making people who purchase S&W products feel like outsiders will only divide us further and now is not the time for division. Now, more than ever, we need to draw all gun owners to ourselves because there is strength in numbers -- not only in the up coming election but in our continued fight in regaining our gun freedoms which have been slowly slipping away from us over the years.

chaho, for questions on your gun and a discussion of Smith & Wesson products (not their policies), come join other S&W owners at a forum that I co-moderate on the Smith & Wesson Firearms Enthusiast's Web Board, which is in no way affiliated with the Smith & Wesson Company of Springfeild, MA.

FUD
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Share what you know & learn what you don't

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The Range House - The place for "Off-Topic" discussion.
Smith & Wesson Semiauto Pistols Forum <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimmy: ... FUD is no less unfortunate than anyone else. Instead, he's unusually observant and analytical. Therefore he sees the risks and threats that surround everyone, even though most people are unaware of them ...[/quote]
 
Said it before...I'll say it again. The boycott is not about revenge. If we want to stop losing gun manufacturers to the gov't., we'd better start showing them what happens when they cut deals that undermine our rights. We'll do our part at the voting booths too, but that's only half the battle.
 
[Edited by Staff to remove off topic material and bandwidth robbing images.]

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited October 17, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MTAA:
Nice gun, let us know how it shoots. You wouldn't own a Sig 210 by any chance ? I'd like to hear how the 210 and the S&W 952 compare.[/quote]

I own a 52 and a P-210, and have a friend with a 952.

To my thinking, the P-210 is superior.

But, for IDPA competition (which is why my friend bought his -- and the fact that he likes NICE guns), the Model 952, with 10 rounds and US style mag releases, has the P-210 beat cold.

I don't think the 952 is as accurate, but haven't really put it to the test. I suspect they're close. (My P-210 came with a proof target showing a 1 1/2" six-shot group at 50 meters. That's not easy to beat.)
 
FUD:

Beggin' your pardon, but Colt's did not "pull out of the civilian market". They were a poorly run company that was hemorrhaging red ink on most of their product line due to inept management and crappy pricing/marketing strategies. They ceased production of several lines of handguns on which they were losing money.

You may still buy/order a new SAA, Cowboy, 1911/1991, or Python from any authorized Colt's dealer.

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They ceased production of several lines of handguns on which they were losing money.
[/quote]

Colt's was losing money on their .380s? That's hard to believe.
 
They cost a lot to make. They didn't sell many. (In years of working in a gun store, no-one ever ordered a new Colt .380. We had maybe 5 or 10 come through used, which were all immediately sold to knowledgeable gun enthusiasts.)

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
FUD, with all due respect, *&* didn't do what their government "asked" them to do. *&* did what they could to try and solidify new contracts to bolster a falling market share. *&* is a company not only of traitors, but of pimps, who are facilitating the rape of the Constitution for money. *&* bailed out before discovery (the most expensive portion of a case) had even started. The phase they were in was the best time for motions for dismissal, which the other companies have been filing and which have been successful. There was NO legitimate basis for their action, except to obtain financial advantage and market position. *&* management has nothing but contempt for our rights and their customers, as demonstrated both by the agreement and by Schultz's comments in support of it. As for the employees, I'm sorry for them. But, frankly, if a company was busted for treasonous activities, how many would think twice about shutting them down? A traitor is a traitor.

*&* must die as an example. Several other companies have already mentioned in passing that the outrage against *&* is what kept them from signing the agreement. So, for those of who claim to support the 2nd Amendment but continue to line the pockets of those who oppose it, you are the true hypocrites. And by the way, feathers, I'll be blunt. I don't expect someone who contributes to a "rapist" to support my rights at all. Simple choice: stand up for what you believe or don't. I don't own *&* because, despite having products I very much care for, I can't stand the thought of my money lining their pockets and demonstrating to other companies that yes, "I'll bend over and let you do what you want."

[This message has been edited by buzz_knox (edited October 17, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tamara: ... You may still buy/order a new SAA, Cowboy, 1911/1991, or Python from any authorized Colt's dealer.[/quote]I can still order a Python?

If you tell me where I can get a brand new, 4" barrel, SS Python AND a NIB Pocket Nine with about half a dozen spare factory mags, I'll send you a 10% finder's fee. Python went for about $800. Pocket Nine for about $600 and four additiona mags (in addition to the two that normally come with the gun) is about another $100 -- which adds up to about $1500 ... ten percent of which, $150, I'll happily send your way. I'm being completely serious about this.

Either post back here or e-mail me privately and we'll talk.
 
As a side note to the Colt 380 thing. There was a small paragraph on the last page of the latest American Handgunner where they noticed the strange fact that Colt was making their small .380's as fast as they could and selling them quickly also. Turns out they just lost a court case against Kel Tec (I think?) and they will not be able to make them any more as part of the agreement so I guess they were trying to get their $ out of the tooling?
 
FUD:

Read carefully: the Pocket Nine is dead and gone. The Python is still available. It is now classed as a 'custom shop' offering as are everything other than the Cowboy and the 1991A1 series. Call a Colt's dealer, save yourself my $80.

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 17, 2000).]
 
Buzz, First off, with regards to Schultz's comments ... either the man is a total moron or in order to maintain a job with the parent company, he was told to be the fall guy for this and he is acting like a moron -- there's no other explaination that I see for what he has done and later has said.

Secondly, I have read the agreement and it has made me sick to my stomach. I do not agree with it. I think that it was WRONG for them to even consider signing something like this. I can also tell you that even if they survive and the boycott is completely reversed and everybody is calling everyone to buy S&W products, I will have no interest in their products with the new 'safety' features which they will be putting in as a result of the agreement. I but products base on how they meet my needs and after reading what they will be required to do, their new products will not meet any of my needs.

What makes this so difficult for me personally is that their current line of pistols is EXACTLY what I want and as long as this agreement stays in place, that will be forever lost to me. Whether the boycott puts them out of business or they survive and become more profittable than ever is besides the point. As long as the agreement stands, their future products will have no interest for me.

With regard to S&W being a traitor ... we have the oldest & largest American handgun company now being owned by a British firm, and like any company, they are in business to minimize loss and make a profit. To them, this is just another piece on the chess board. To us, we are losing a major handgun maker that has made fine products for well over a century.

If and when S&W closes it's doors forever, do you not think that cheers will be heard in the halls of HCI? The second largest gun maker is no more. And the majority of gun owners will be cheering right along with them. Gee, I sort of see something wrong with that picture.

Unfortunately, I don't the answer as to what to do because as I said, the whole thing makes me sick to my stomach but putting a major gun maker out of business is not it. Doing something that will cause HCI to rejoice can not be the right course of action to take.

Please excuse my rambling as this is a very emotional issue for me as I outlined earlier. I don't know if I've made my point or lack there of. After having my morning Mountain Dew, I'll see if I can come back to edit this post in order to make the points a little clearer. Regards, FUD.
 
Tamara, I want a Pocket Nine :( I didn't buy one when I had the chance and I regret it to this day.

Intel6, Colt lost the court case to Kahr -- details are on their web site.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chaho:
Oh by the way you guys should have seen what happend at glocktalk when I posted about my new S&W. The moderator kept deleting personal attack posts, it was brutal. [/quote]

chaho, you come on here and in your second post, even before anyone has criticized your decision, you make an ultimatum that no one comment on the agreement except in General. You then intentionally write the word "new" in all caps. Then you post the pic and boast that you are going to bed with your new Smith.
I submit that you are deliberately attempting to raise the ire of your fellow members. Is it any wonder why Glocktalk members and now TFL'ers are critical of your purchase and subsequent attitude? I think you are purposely inviting an arguement.
 
Like my wife says, "If you don't like the program you are watching, there are two knobs on the set. One of them changes the channel, the other turns it off." Why is everybody jumping all over each other?? This is EXACTLY the liberal mantra. "Divide and conquer." You don't like what someone else did, fine. Last time I checked, we're still a free country and freedom of choice, even if it's a bad choice (in your opinion) is still a freedom we have. As far as S&W goes, I sold all mine and will no longer own one. Having said that, all this discussion will become a moot point if Al Gore gets into office. Because if he does, the S&W agreement will look like a Sunday social event compared to what the liberals have in mind. So go ahead, attack and alienate members of our gun culture. When was the last time you did something that someone you know didn't agree with. I got up this morning. Somebody want to take a swing at that? HMMM???
 
buzz_knox: "I'm for freedom. I support the bill of rights and the 2nd admendment but you better not buy a gun that I don't approve of or I'll call you a hypocrite and put you down."

Those aren't your words but that's what you're saying. Come on man, you're either for freedom or you're not!

HCI is also for freedom. You have the freedom to buy a gun IF you are licenced, IF the gun is national registered, IF the gun is greater than X" so that it can not be concealed, IF it holds less than X rounds, IF, IF, IF!

What are you saying? You have the freedom to buy a gun IF it isn't a S&W because for the GREATER GOOD of gun owners S&W must die.

What does HCI say? For the GREATER GOOD private ownership of guns must be elimated.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two! Like I said yesterday, there are about 80 million gun owners in this country but that doesn't mean that they are "pro-gun".

I suggestion that you take you allies, which translates into votes, from where ever you can and stop alienating S&W owners.

chaho should have been warmly greeted as a fellow gun owner and provided with the information that he was looking for and not attacked for buying a gun that YOU did not approve of. If he was interested in discuss the political nature of S&W, he would have posted in another forum.
 
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