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New M/L Sub-Catagory Suggestion
- Thread starter Pahoo
- Start date
- Status
You count posts funny, but then is says 40 posters, not 40 posts. I could use the device, but not as inteneded which should count for something.
What I am not sure about is, if the device is complete, but even if it is I wouldn't install it on my Winchester.
I am very new here, but not new to BP flinters one bit. With these I go back to 72'. SO seeing a trade place for this would be way cool IMO...
As to the device , well it has a 1" ID and my handle bars are 1" OD, so it could mount on my bike easy.. And then i could add bling to it..
I have other scope mounts, so what I got was a lesson in what else I can mount with....
Still you count funny... Are you IRS?
What I am not sure about is, if the device is complete, but even if it is I wouldn't install it on my Winchester.
I am very new here, but not new to BP flinters one bit. With these I go back to 72'. SO seeing a trade place for this would be way cool IMO...
As to the device , well it has a 1" ID and my handle bars are 1" OD, so it could mount on my bike easy.. And then i could add bling to it..
I have other scope mounts, so what I got was a lesson in what else I can mount with....
Still you count funny... Are you IRS?
Dunno, your last post reads #41 on my list of topics.
just having fun anyway.
the mount is yours but its just the mount base. no rings with it.
its Bushnell #76-1916 "center dovetail 94 winchester" brand new in original plastic case. Still has the original tube of loctite with it!
so, if you still want it send me an address by PM and i'll put it in the mail.
Looks like we might get a new category for posting!
be safe,
tom
That's strange as I see mine as 40 and yours as 41... I can make a bit map and post it if you wish.. I am sure you can do the same thing.
I understand this poster Hawg Haggen has stated he coukld use this part as well, but for what I am not sure. It could be he really needs it. I wouldn't stand in the way of that.
I am just posting in here as I am new and haven't found my way around yet.
I am a dyed in the wool skinner though.
I understand this poster Hawg Haggen has stated he coukld use this part as well, but for what I am not sure. It could be he really needs it. I wouldn't stand in the way of that.
I am just posting in here as I am new and haven't found my way around yet.
I am a dyed in the wool skinner though.
I swear! You guys sure do squeak a lot!
I'll reopen this when a decision, one way or the other, has been made. Don't forget, this is the tech support forum, not a chat room.
BTW, as for the "contest", the rewritten rule states, "the 50th post that has ANYTHING to say about muzzleloader wins the prize." Since no one posted the 50th post, there is no winner - yet.
If you delete silly posts and only count ones that have anything to say about muzzleloaders, the count is much lower than the thread indicates.
I'll reopen this when a decision, one way or the other, has been made. Don't forget, this is the tech support forum, not a chat room.
BTW, as for the "contest", the rewritten rule states, "the 50th post that has ANYTHING to say about muzzleloader wins the prize." Since no one posted the 50th post, there is no winner - yet.
If you delete silly posts and only count ones that have anything to say about muzzleloaders, the count is much lower than the thread indicates.
Ok, after due consideration, we have added a private muzzle loading gun show forum. You'll find it inside the BP forum.
If anyone already has a buy/sell/trade thread in one of the other forums and would like to have it moved to the BP specific forum, post the link here and I'll move it.
Reminder - this thread is not a contest or chat thread.
If anyone already has a buy/sell/trade thread in one of the other forums and would like to have it moved to the BP specific forum, post the link here and I'll move it.
Reminder - this thread is not a contest or chat thread.
Mal, You sure make it hard to speak when you lock threads.
I could care a less about any contest, prizes and or other so called winnings.
Clearly the post and thread is about a place to trade black powder related items. So far as I am concerend the prize isn't related to black powder items, and or much of anything else.
Just about everyone was posting as play, because there is no real topic.
The area this post is in, as you well know is suggestions, questions, and tech support. The mods moved this thread here, not me.
I am a mod on line myself, and I sure wouldn't have placed this thread in this area myself.
Never the less, my interest would be a place to trade for black powder related items somewhere on the web.
Some items to trade related to black powder to me are lodges, kitchen gear, fire irons, wooden, leather, horn, antler, guns, hawks, knives, trade silver, and cloth materials. All related to history, hunting, both modern and period.
I am new here, and I know what happens to new guys at sites as I have been a mod on line since sometime in the year 2000. There is always a period of adjustment for anyone new to find his spot on any given board, and get used to how the board runs..
Now to me it looks like you, and the other mod, are just tossing your weight around, because you can. If this is the way things in general work around around here, then I would be on the wrong site. If this isn't the way they work in general then maybe this site is ok, but I can't tell yet.
They say people will never say the things they say on line in real life, but I don't care what they say. I speak my mind on line as I do in real life.
I have about 3,000 Buck Skinners that will tell you that.
The entire point was to squeak alot, and get the place that now has been given wasn't it?
I don't care what you do to the thread, me, and others really, as I haven't invested time and thinking here much yet.
You can lock this thread, and ban me and it won't make any difference to me yet. If you do, you better not also be a Buck Skinner at any events I attend, or you could find an old skinney guy at top yer lodge. It wouldn't be the first time I was a top somebody's lodge yelling for my horse!
I could care a less about any contest, prizes and or other so called winnings.
Clearly the post and thread is about a place to trade black powder related items. So far as I am concerend the prize isn't related to black powder items, and or much of anything else.
Just about everyone was posting as play, because there is no real topic.
The area this post is in, as you well know is suggestions, questions, and tech support. The mods moved this thread here, not me.
I am a mod on line myself, and I sure wouldn't have placed this thread in this area myself.
Never the less, my interest would be a place to trade for black powder related items somewhere on the web.
Some items to trade related to black powder to me are lodges, kitchen gear, fire irons, wooden, leather, horn, antler, guns, hawks, knives, trade silver, and cloth materials. All related to history, hunting, both modern and period.
I am new here, and I know what happens to new guys at sites as I have been a mod on line since sometime in the year 2000. There is always a period of adjustment for anyone new to find his spot on any given board, and get used to how the board runs..
Now to me it looks like you, and the other mod, are just tossing your weight around, because you can. If this is the way things in general work around around here, then I would be on the wrong site. If this isn't the way they work in general then maybe this site is ok, but I can't tell yet.
They say people will never say the things they say on line in real life, but I don't care what they say. I speak my mind on line as I do in real life.
I have about 3,000 Buck Skinners that will tell you that.
The entire point was to squeak alot, and get the place that now has been given wasn't it?
I don't care what you do to the thread, me, and others really, as I haven't invested time and thinking here much yet.
You can lock this thread, and ban me and it won't make any difference to me yet. If you do, you better not also be a Buck Skinner at any events I attend, or you could find an old skinney guy at top yer lodge. It wouldn't be the first time I was a top somebody's lodge yelling for my horse!
Well, alrighty then, Mac_Muz! You're most welcome! I guess old Draco has nothing on me, eh?
Actually, I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to waste time with this, but it's hard to resist a thrown gauntlet. I'm not going to waste a lot of time on your points, but will answer them.
"As to the prize, i want it! I want it! read that! I want it, and will after more thinking, use it to mount a radar detector I have been having problems mounting on my motorbike.
So the rest you you guys who have no use for this mount back off! LOL"
*****************************
Now back to the topic at hand.
Anybody have any threads to be moved to the new forum?
Actually, I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to waste time with this, but it's hard to resist a thrown gauntlet. I'm not going to waste a lot of time on your points, but will answer them.
Really? Let me quote you from this very thread:
"As to the prize, i want it! I want it! read that! I want it, and will after more thinking, use it to mount a radar detector I have been having problems mounting on my motorbike.
So the rest you you guys who have no use for this mount back off! LOL"
You are correct about the moving, but not about there being no topic. This thread was created to ask the moderating staff if a buy/sell/trade forum could be created specifically for muzzle loading items. No matter where it started it rightly belongs in this forum and therefore was moved here. Does it really matter who moved it? And I am well aware that you didn't move it because you joined two days after the thread was created.
Irrelevant.
Most of that was understood as the items that would be in such a forum. However, our forum will not be one to barter for kitchen gear, lodges, and the like. TFL is a firearms board and even in the BP forums, that is and will remain the focus.
All true. I guess that's why I'm puzzled why you started throwing your weight around as you have accused us below so soon after you joined.
Well you can take this to the bank - this is how things work around here. TFL is a closely moderated board. If we see things that are in the wrong place, we move them. If we see folks chatting in threads about a completely different subject than the original post was about, we either give a gentle warning or we close or delete the thread. If we see folks deriding others, using ad hominems, or simply contributing more noise than signal, we ban them. What you call throwing our weight around, we call good moderating.
Speak your mind as much as you want as long as you stay within the forum rules when doing so.
No, it wasn't. The entire point was to ask if a certain forum could be added. No additional rhetoric was required other than perhaps describing some of the details of the requested forum and showing additional member support for the request.
I'm afraid that's obvious.
I don't intend to lock this thread unless the posts drift off topic - again. I'm not sure if your last two sentences are a threat or just good natured jabbering and posturing, if the former, it is not welcome here.
*****************************
Now back to the topic at hand.
Anybody have any threads to be moved to the new forum?
"Let's Bring This Back"
Forum:
You have spoken, not squeaked, loud and clear and shown your interest and support.
I might suggest that we revisit the forum section listing "The Rules of Conduct" as it deals in good faith.
Staff:
You have acknowledged this support and given us the tools that we need to accomodate of our interests. I understand that Mal H has limited interest in M/L's and that's fine as we all have our interests. The stated Mod. on Black Poder issues is 4V50 Gary and can only assume that his input was solicited.
I sincerely wish to thank the staff for their support.
Forum:
You have spoken, not squeaked, loud and clear and shown your interest and support.
I might suggest that we revisit the forum section listing "The Rules of Conduct" as it deals in good faith.
Staff:
You have acknowledged this support and given us the tools that we need to accomodate of our interests. I understand that Mal H has limited interest in M/L's and that's fine as we all have our interests. The stated Mod. on Black Poder issues is 4V50 Gary and can only assume that his input was solicited.
I sincerely wish to thank the staff for their support.
Well Mal, I don't know what to say other than you take life way to seriously.
Or there is a failing under the fact we can't see each other. I sit here with a glint in my eye when I say things like, I want, I want the rest of you guys back off, after I have read this so called prized is of dubious value.
No doubt you also saw me say that someone named Hawg should probably benifit from this part, as somewhere I don't know about on here, it is alledged he has a use for this part.
Me threaten anyone with more than climbing a tee pee which is pretty funny in and of itself, can't possibly be taken as harming anything can it?
I am 56, and weigh 145 pounds soaking wet. No one has ever felt very threatened by me in person before, so yeah I was being funny.
I have sat around more than 1 camp fire ya know.
Weight? What weight can I possibly throw around here?
I can't say I even know the meaning of Draco.
I can see I got off on the wrong foot pretty easy. I can see you stepped on the post in seemingly to me haste.. I had a desire to speak my mind and couldn't; hence the new post so i could. That got stepped on right away but then you posted to it anyway.
Now I have no weight around here, so the best I can do is offer an open appology for steppin' on your toes, and see if I can enter clean, or not.
Many times I don't speak to all in a thread, and as it is now, I am speaking directly to you and no one else.
Maybe in real life we just wouldn't like each other, but I would have a problem with that myself, as we have never met. I am never overly hasty in things I do and or care about. I don't judge others by a single incident.
Now I don't know if you would want this, but I have an interesting bit witten about what it is like to be a mod.
I will post it here for you and you may do what ever you wish with. I think that if you read it, you might agree with most of it. Anyway that will be my Peace offereing.
It will be the next thing I post in this thread and i expect you will find it is off topic, but it is there for you to decide what to do with it. I didn't write it myself, but you may still use it for what ever you wish. Likely it will be nothing you don't already know. It was written by a "Mr. Anderson" a user name an given to me. My take is it is a good essay.
Or there is a failing under the fact we can't see each other. I sit here with a glint in my eye when I say things like, I want, I want the rest of you guys back off, after I have read this so called prized is of dubious value.
No doubt you also saw me say that someone named Hawg should probably benifit from this part, as somewhere I don't know about on here, it is alledged he has a use for this part.
Me threaten anyone with more than climbing a tee pee which is pretty funny in and of itself, can't possibly be taken as harming anything can it?
I am 56, and weigh 145 pounds soaking wet. No one has ever felt very threatened by me in person before, so yeah I was being funny.
I have sat around more than 1 camp fire ya know.
Weight? What weight can I possibly throw around here?
I can't say I even know the meaning of Draco.
I can see I got off on the wrong foot pretty easy. I can see you stepped on the post in seemingly to me haste.. I had a desire to speak my mind and couldn't; hence the new post so i could. That got stepped on right away but then you posted to it anyway.
Now I have no weight around here, so the best I can do is offer an open appology for steppin' on your toes, and see if I can enter clean, or not.
Many times I don't speak to all in a thread, and as it is now, I am speaking directly to you and no one else.
Maybe in real life we just wouldn't like each other, but I would have a problem with that myself, as we have never met. I am never overly hasty in things I do and or care about. I don't judge others by a single incident.
Now I don't know if you would want this, but I have an interesting bit witten about what it is like to be a mod.
I will post it here for you and you may do what ever you wish with. I think that if you read it, you might agree with most of it. Anyway that will be my Peace offereing.
It will be the next thing I post in this thread and i expect you will find it is off topic, but it is there for you to decide what to do with it. I didn't write it myself, but you may still use it for what ever you wish. Likely it will be nothing you don't already know. It was written by a "Mr. Anderson" a user name an given to me. My take is it is a good essay.
Dealing with trolls by Mr. Anderson
Dealing with trolls can be fun, or it can get on peoples nerves. I decided it would be good, since this board is infested with one particular troll, that we have a topic dealing with this particular thing. Feel free to add your opinions to the topic and let's make this a topic that stays on top of things while we deal with our troll infestation.
What is a troll?
An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.
Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.
Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.
Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can not be changed by mere words.
Why does it matter?
Some people — particularly those who have been online for years — are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."
It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.
Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.
Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.
The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.
What can be done about trolls?
When you suspect that somebody is a troll, you might try responding with a polite, mild message to see if it's just somebody in a bad mood. Internet users sometimes let their passions get away from them when seated safely behind their keyboard. If you ignore their bluster and respond in a pleasant manner, they usually calm down.
However, if the person persists in being beastly, and seems to enjoy being unpleasant, the only effective position is summed up as follows:
The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.
When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you insult a troll, he wins. When you scream at a troll, he wins. The only thing that trolls can't handle is being ignored.
What NOT to do
As already stated, it is futile to try to "cure" a troll of his obsession. But perhaps you simply cannot bear the hostile environment that the troll is creating and want to go away for a while.
If you do that, then for the sake of the others on the system, please do not post a dramatic "Goodbye!" message. This convinces the troll that he is winning the battle. There is, perhaps, no message you can write on a message system that is as damaging as an announcement that you are leaving because of the hostility that the troll has kindled.
If you feel you must say something, a discreet message to the system operator (and some of the others users, if you have their email addresses) is the best course of action. Incidentally, if you are writing the letter in an agitated state, it is a good idea to wait an hour and then give it one last review before you actually send it. That might spare you the pain of saying things that you don't really mean to people you like.
The forum administrators challenge
When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed — more on this later.
The moderator of a message board may not be able to delete a troll's messages right away, but their job is made much harder if they also have to read numerous replies to trolls. They are also forced to decide whether or not to delete posts from well-meaning folks which have the unintended effect of encouraging the troll.
Some webmasters have to endure conscientious users telling them that they are "acting like dictators" and should never delete a single message. These people may be misinformed: they may have arrived at their opinion about a troll based on the messages they see, never realizing that the webmaster has already deleted his most horrific material. Please remember that a troll does have an alternative if he has something of value to say: there are services on the net that provide messaging systems free of charge. So the troll can set up his own message board, where he can make his own decisions about the kind of content he will tolerate.
Just how much can we expect of a webmaster when it comes to preserving the principles of free speech? Some trolls find sport in determining what the breaking point is for a particular message board operator. They might post a dozen messages, each of which contains 400 lines of the letter "J". That is a form of expression, to be sure, but would you consider it your duty to play host to such a person?
Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one — himself.
What about free speech?
When trolls find that their efforts are being successfully resisted, they often complain that their right to free speech is being infringed. Let us examine that claim.
While most people on the Internet are ardent defenders of free speech, it is not an absolute right; there are practical limitations. For example, you may not scream out "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you may not make jokes about bombs while waiting to board an airplane. We accept these limitations because we recognize that they serve a greater good.
Another useful example is the control of the radio frequency spectrum. You might wish to set up a powerful radio station to broadcast your ideas, but you cannot do so without applying for a license. Again, this is a practical limitation: if everybody broadcasted without restriction, the repercussions would be annoying at best and life-threatening at worst.
The radio example is helpful for another reason: with countless people having a legitimate need to use radio communications, it is important to ensure that nobody is 'monopolizing the channel'. There are only so many clear channels available in each frequency band and these must be shared.
When a troll attacks a message board, he generally posts a lot of messages. Even if his messages are not particularly inflammatory, they can be so numerous that they drown out the regular conversations (this is known as 'flooding'). Needless to say, no one person's opinions can be allowed to monopolize a channel.
The ultimate response to the 'free speech' argument is this: while we may have the right to say more or less whatever we want, we do not have the right to say it wherever we want. You may feel strongly about the fact that your neighbour has not mowed his lawn for two months, but you do not have the right to berate him in his own living room. Similarly, if a webmaster tells a troll that he is not welcome, the troll has no "right" to remain. This is particularly true on the numerous free communications services offered on the net. (On pay systems, the troll might be justified in asking for a refund.)
Why do they (trolls) do it?
Affirmation.
Regular net users know how delightful it is when somebody responds to something they have written. It is a meeting of the minds, which is an intellectual thrill, but it is also an acknowledgement of one's value — and that can be a very satisfying emotional reward.
Trolls crave attention, and they care not whether it is positive or negative. They see the Internet as a mirror into which they can gaze in narcissistic rapture.
If you want a deeper analysis than that, perhaps a psychologist can shed some additional light on the matter.
Dealing with trolls can be fun, or it can get on peoples nerves. I decided it would be good, since this board is infested with one particular troll, that we have a topic dealing with this particular thing. Feel free to add your opinions to the topic and let's make this a topic that stays on top of things while we deal with our troll infestation.
What is a troll?
An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.
Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.
Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.
Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can not be changed by mere words.
Why does it matter?
Some people — particularly those who have been online for years — are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."
It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.
Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.
Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.
The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.
What can be done about trolls?
When you suspect that somebody is a troll, you might try responding with a polite, mild message to see if it's just somebody in a bad mood. Internet users sometimes let their passions get away from them when seated safely behind their keyboard. If you ignore their bluster and respond in a pleasant manner, they usually calm down.
However, if the person persists in being beastly, and seems to enjoy being unpleasant, the only effective position is summed up as follows:
The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.
When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you insult a troll, he wins. When you scream at a troll, he wins. The only thing that trolls can't handle is being ignored.
What NOT to do
As already stated, it is futile to try to "cure" a troll of his obsession. But perhaps you simply cannot bear the hostile environment that the troll is creating and want to go away for a while.
If you do that, then for the sake of the others on the system, please do not post a dramatic "Goodbye!" message. This convinces the troll that he is winning the battle. There is, perhaps, no message you can write on a message system that is as damaging as an announcement that you are leaving because of the hostility that the troll has kindled.
If you feel you must say something, a discreet message to the system operator (and some of the others users, if you have their email addresses) is the best course of action. Incidentally, if you are writing the letter in an agitated state, it is a good idea to wait an hour and then give it one last review before you actually send it. That might spare you the pain of saying things that you don't really mean to people you like.
The forum administrators challenge
When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed — more on this later.
The moderator of a message board may not be able to delete a troll's messages right away, but their job is made much harder if they also have to read numerous replies to trolls. They are also forced to decide whether or not to delete posts from well-meaning folks which have the unintended effect of encouraging the troll.
Some webmasters have to endure conscientious users telling them that they are "acting like dictators" and should never delete a single message. These people may be misinformed: they may have arrived at their opinion about a troll based on the messages they see, never realizing that the webmaster has already deleted his most horrific material. Please remember that a troll does have an alternative if he has something of value to say: there are services on the net that provide messaging systems free of charge. So the troll can set up his own message board, where he can make his own decisions about the kind of content he will tolerate.
Just how much can we expect of a webmaster when it comes to preserving the principles of free speech? Some trolls find sport in determining what the breaking point is for a particular message board operator. They might post a dozen messages, each of which contains 400 lines of the letter "J". That is a form of expression, to be sure, but would you consider it your duty to play host to such a person?
Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one — himself.
What about free speech?
When trolls find that their efforts are being successfully resisted, they often complain that their right to free speech is being infringed. Let us examine that claim.
While most people on the Internet are ardent defenders of free speech, it is not an absolute right; there are practical limitations. For example, you may not scream out "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you may not make jokes about bombs while waiting to board an airplane. We accept these limitations because we recognize that they serve a greater good.
Another useful example is the control of the radio frequency spectrum. You might wish to set up a powerful radio station to broadcast your ideas, but you cannot do so without applying for a license. Again, this is a practical limitation: if everybody broadcasted without restriction, the repercussions would be annoying at best and life-threatening at worst.
The radio example is helpful for another reason: with countless people having a legitimate need to use radio communications, it is important to ensure that nobody is 'monopolizing the channel'. There are only so many clear channels available in each frequency band and these must be shared.
When a troll attacks a message board, he generally posts a lot of messages. Even if his messages are not particularly inflammatory, they can be so numerous that they drown out the regular conversations (this is known as 'flooding'). Needless to say, no one person's opinions can be allowed to monopolize a channel.
The ultimate response to the 'free speech' argument is this: while we may have the right to say more or less whatever we want, we do not have the right to say it wherever we want. You may feel strongly about the fact that your neighbour has not mowed his lawn for two months, but you do not have the right to berate him in his own living room. Similarly, if a webmaster tells a troll that he is not welcome, the troll has no "right" to remain. This is particularly true on the numerous free communications services offered on the net. (On pay systems, the troll might be justified in asking for a refund.)
Why do they (trolls) do it?
Affirmation.
Regular net users know how delightful it is when somebody responds to something they have written. It is a meeting of the minds, which is an intellectual thrill, but it is also an acknowledgement of one's value — and that can be a very satisfying emotional reward.
Trolls crave attention, and they care not whether it is positive or negative. They see the Internet as a mirror into which they can gaze in narcissistic rapture.
If you want a deeper analysis than that, perhaps a psychologist can shed some additional light on the matter.
tplumeri, truth be told, i was just playin' along and telling a tall tale just to be a squeaky wheel, which as you can see got me in Dutch around here.
I am afraid you are stuck with it if hawg doesn't want it. Maybe if there was a ring, it might work for an alternate use. But with no ring I have no use either.
Another part of this is I don't think inside the box ever. Long ago I was hurt pretty baddly and so spending over a very long time isn't like what it is for most people. In some ways this has altered me to see uses in things other than intended for a great deal of things.
I know also this too is OT, and I am going to pay for it.
Today people think nothing to run out and buy a new device, lets say a adjustable powder measure. I don't I will drill a hole in antler and find out what it hold in a fixed case that I can measure.
I don't just do this with guns, but I do it with everything and if i go there here for sure I will be in more trouble than I am now.
Thank you Sir, but I decline. Mac
I would have sent a pm, but then i am still new here.
I am afraid you are stuck with it if hawg doesn't want it. Maybe if there was a ring, it might work for an alternate use. But with no ring I have no use either.
Another part of this is I don't think inside the box ever. Long ago I was hurt pretty baddly and so spending over a very long time isn't like what it is for most people. In some ways this has altered me to see uses in things other than intended for a great deal of things.
I know also this too is OT, and I am going to pay for it.
Today people think nothing to run out and buy a new device, lets say a adjustable powder measure. I don't I will drill a hole in antler and find out what it hold in a fixed case that I can measure.
I don't just do this with guns, but I do it with everything and if i go there here for sure I will be in more trouble than I am now.
Thank you Sir, but I decline. Mac
I would have sent a pm, but then i am still new here.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
Question asked and answered.
Sheesh! Never seen so many bees swarmin' around so little honey.
Closed.
Sheesh! Never seen so many bees swarmin' around so little honey.
Closed.
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