Im looking into purchasing a home defense shotgun, probably a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500/590. I have always been a handgun shooter and I am not very familiar with shotguns at all. The only thing I really know about shotguns is how to unload them and make them safe. I know that for self defense I would probably want buckshot but I was looking at slugs today and I wanted to the know what kind of slugs I would use in one of these shotguns. What is the difference between sabot and rifled slugs? I dont think I would use rifled slugs in these shotguns correct? Any advice would be appreciated.
New Home Defense Shotgun. Help a newbie out?
- Thread starter Atrain9
- Start date
Rifled slugs are for smoothbore. The "rifle" grooves are there to give a tight enuff fit but swage down enuff in any choke to not be excessive pressure.
Sabot slugs are for rifled deer barrel and get the spin and then shuck the 2 piece sabot. Basically a .50 cal bullet or so. For HD/SD buckshot usually gets the nod. A rifled slug is an ominous mule kick in the chest out to 70 yards or better easy. 00 Buck is pretty heavy hitting out to 50 with spread being the limiting factor but at HD in home range it is great.
Either the Mossberg or Remington are good. I highly prefer the Mossberg as it is set up great with the action release button at the rear left of trigger guard and safety above tang both can be operated with gun in full shoulder mount and any other position.
Brent
Sabot slugs are for rifled deer barrel and get the spin and then shuck the 2 piece sabot. Basically a .50 cal bullet or so. For HD/SD buckshot usually gets the nod. A rifled slug is an ominous mule kick in the chest out to 70 yards or better easy. 00 Buck is pretty heavy hitting out to 50 with spread being the limiting factor but at HD in home range it is great.
Either the Mossberg or Remington are good. I highly prefer the Mossberg as it is set up great with the action release button at the rear left of trigger guard and safety above tang both can be operated with gun in full shoulder mount and any other position.
Brent
+1 on Hogdogs explanation of slugs. But the selection of what to load up with goes a bit deeper. At least if you live in a heavily populated area. Overall 00 buck (8-12 33cal 54gr pellets moving at 1100-1350fps) is a great choice as a stopper but it can also ruin a close by neighbor's day. I keep mine loaded so that the first two out the pipe are #4 buck ( 27 24cal 21gr pellets). At hallway distances it's not going to have time to open up and at 3yds will act almost like a solid mass - a really big bullet. Yup shotguns have to be aimed just like a rifle. As far as neighbors go, it's going to penetrate a wall or two but after that they run out of energy pretty quickly. Still a risk to neighbors but not the risk that 00 buck is.
Behind the two #4 buck are five 00 buck. I operate under the theory that if 2 shots of #4 haven't solved the problem or sent the BG running then it's more than a burglary. At that point I want the penetration of the 00 buck. That buckshot is going act like a sold mass at 3yds and slowly spread to make a roughly 42" pattern at 25yds out of an 18" barrel. It's when you have to reach out 25yds that a slug comes in handy. Federal's Truball slug is claimed to hold 2" at 50yds and be accurate out past 100yds.
Recapping the last 2rds (1st out the barrel) that I load are #4 buck, the other 5rds are 00 buck, and I have 5 slugs in a stock cuff. A bandoleer of 00 buck just in case isn't a bad idea either.
Oh and one more thing. 00 buck and slugs are available in ~1300fps full power loads and ~1100fs reduced recoil loads. Pump shotguns kick like a mule so you'll have to decide for yourself on the trade-off between penetration and recoil. Whatever you do if you're not familiar with defensive shotguns then I'd take a 1 day basic defensive shotgun course. They usually run $100-150 plus ammo.
Behind the two #4 buck are five 00 buck. I operate under the theory that if 2 shots of #4 haven't solved the problem or sent the BG running then it's more than a burglary. At that point I want the penetration of the 00 buck. That buckshot is going act like a sold mass at 3yds and slowly spread to make a roughly 42" pattern at 25yds out of an 18" barrel. It's when you have to reach out 25yds that a slug comes in handy. Federal's Truball slug is claimed to hold 2" at 50yds and be accurate out past 100yds.
Recapping the last 2rds (1st out the barrel) that I load are #4 buck, the other 5rds are 00 buck, and I have 5 slugs in a stock cuff. A bandoleer of 00 buck just in case isn't a bad idea either.
Oh and one more thing. 00 buck and slugs are available in ~1300fps full power loads and ~1100fs reduced recoil loads. Pump shotguns kick like a mule so you'll have to decide for yourself on the trade-off between penetration and recoil. Whatever you do if you're not familiar with defensive shotguns then I'd take a 1 day basic defensive shotgun course. They usually run $100-150 plus ammo.
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Right On Target
These guys are right on target, especially if you in a heavyly populated area the chance of over pentration cannot be ignored. Nothing worse than to protect your family and then killing the neighbor in the process. In a home self defense situation say 10 yds or under #5 shot or even smaller will stop any threat, and won't kill the kids in the back room. At that close a distance any meat will be hamburger. There would not be more intimidating that the sound of a pump shotgun action in the dark.
These guys are right on target, especially if you in a heavyly populated area the chance of over pentration cannot be ignored. Nothing worse than to protect your family and then killing the neighbor in the process. In a home self defense situation say 10 yds or under #5 shot or even smaller will stop any threat, and won't kill the kids in the back room. At that close a distance any meat will be hamburger. There would not be more intimidating that the sound of a pump shotgun action in the dark.
Para Bellum
New member
I love Shotguns for Sports and Hunting, but:
Get a home defense .223 rifle (pump or semi):
- more precision,
- more capacity,
- way less recoil,
- same damage with good ammo,
- no risk of overpenetration with good ammo,
- way longer range.
How about the Remington 7615P: http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm
Get a home defense .223 rifle (pump or semi):
- more precision,
- more capacity,
- way less recoil,
- same damage with good ammo,
- no risk of overpenetration with good ammo,
- way longer range.
How about the Remington 7615P: http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm
GetYerShells
New member
Another +1 to hotdogs. Don't listen to the crowd that tells you to use birdshot because of the over-penetration issues.
Let me add one more thing. When waking to the sound of somebody in your home (simple burglary) it's a bad idea to try to clear your home yourself. It simply cannot be done safely or effectively solo. It takes a minimum of three people. One to watch your six while you clear closets, and another in the hall to make sure that the BG isn't sneaking into already cleared rooms. That's what the cops get paid for - let them deal with it. It's a doubly bad idea to use a long gun to clear rooms. The barrel gets to the corner well before you do and provides excellent leverage to take it away from you. LE rely on a backup officer to provide cover while they lower the muzzle to take the corner. A luxury you're unlikely to have.
My point is that your shotgun will not be a magic wand for clearing the house. In general the best home defense employment is to use it to it from cover to control a fixed location like the bedroom hallway while you wait for the cops. That's a job it does better than anything else.
My point is that your shotgun will not be a magic wand for clearing the house. In general the best home defense employment is to use it to it from cover to control a fixed location like the bedroom hallway while you wait for the cops. That's a job it does better than anything else.
PoorSoulInJersey
New member
The nice thing about a shotgun is that "close" counts. With a rifle or carbine, you need to hit something much dead on. A shot grazing the side is not likely to stop the attacker.
A shotgun, because it its scattershot nature, means that if the center of the column grazes someone's side, they still take 3 to 5 hits, some of which in a more damaging area.
A shotgun is also easier to handle in a panic. If you at least aim down the bore, you should be close to your target. A rifle, you'll have to find the sights and make sure you're close to center-of-mass on your target. If you've ever shot in a stressful situation (and by that I mean anything that gets your heart up, something as simple as shooting with a shot timer or at an IDPA match), you know how quickly your training can go out the window.
A lot of folks talk about bird shot. It will leave one nasty looking, but you'd better be CLOSE to your target, and I mean "smell his breath" kind of close, for that to really stop him. The birdshot scatters pretty quickly, losing a lot of its stopping power.
Personally, I have a Saiga 12 ga semiauto with #1 buck loaded in it (I live in an apartment and wanted to cut down the "missed target" penetration risk), and additional magazines with 00 buck ready to go.
A shotgun, because it its scattershot nature, means that if the center of the column grazes someone's side, they still take 3 to 5 hits, some of which in a more damaging area.
A shotgun is also easier to handle in a panic. If you at least aim down the bore, you should be close to your target. A rifle, you'll have to find the sights and make sure you're close to center-of-mass on your target. If you've ever shot in a stressful situation (and by that I mean anything that gets your heart up, something as simple as shooting with a shot timer or at an IDPA match), you know how quickly your training can go out the window.
A lot of folks talk about bird shot. It will leave one nasty looking, but you'd better be CLOSE to your target, and I mean "smell his breath" kind of close, for that to really stop him. The birdshot scatters pretty quickly, losing a lot of its stopping power.
Personally, I have a Saiga 12 ga semiauto with #1 buck loaded in it (I live in an apartment and wanted to cut down the "missed target" penetration risk), and additional magazines with 00 buck ready to go.
waterdog89
New member
Mossberg 500A with front and back pistol grip. Use buckshot and keep slugs handy.
Waterdog, why would you suggest a very limited mobility setup like PGO with PG forestock? Very limited in not only mobility but defensibility. With less than severe professional training that setup is for fun only...
And for the risk of over penetration due to a miss there is finer weapon than the PGO...
For a brand new shotgun owner seeking a defense weapon a regular, conventional setup is superior. This is something verifiable...
Brent
And for the risk of over penetration due to a miss there is finer weapon than the PGO...
For a brand new shotgun owner seeking a defense weapon a regular, conventional setup is superior. This is something verifiable...
Brent
waterdog89
New member
Just my opinion. I've never had problems with control or mobility, unless your trying to clear a house solo. I dont know what your plan is for HD but mine is to set up in one spot where my family and valuables are and wait while someone else calls the cops. I admit it is not for mobility, and if I needed it for that I would use a mossberg 500 12 with tac. stock. As far as accuracy, no problem there.
Waterdog... Come down and shoot some low and slow dirt birds along side junior and I... We ain't pro shooters and haven't slung a clay in about 2 years. I will even go so far as to put my PGO on for a few rounds
. In the same time I will demonstrate the weaknesses of these guns. I don't know about you but I have been shooting mostly shotguns of all forms for 32 of my 40 years. I can't tell you how much fun shootin' my dad's .410/.22 U&O with 8 inch barrel was!
I am not the hoity toity high class snob either. I am the guy who posted the pics of my redneck tree service!
For the person who prefers to hole up rather than go out after an intruder, a kneeling position with a standard set up and left elbow on left knee with a full shoulder mount looking down the barrel is as accurate as you can get!
Accurate "enuff" at best isn't usually the choice of a determined survival mindset. No one can pee down my leg and tell me it is raining trying to convince me they are nearly as accurate with their PGO as they would be with a stock. JUST NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE!
Brent
. In the same time I will demonstrate the weaknesses of these guns. I don't know about you but I have been shooting mostly shotguns of all forms for 32 of my 40 years. I can't tell you how much fun shootin' my dad's .410/.22 U&O with 8 inch barrel was! I am not the hoity toity high class snob either. I am the guy who posted the pics of my redneck tree service! For the person who prefers to hole up rather than go out after an intruder, a kneeling position with a standard set up and left elbow on left knee with a full shoulder mount looking down the barrel is as accurate as you can get! Accurate "enuff" at best isn't usually the choice of a determined survival mindset. No one can pee down my leg and tell me it is raining trying to convince me they are nearly as accurate with their PGO as they would be with a stock. JUST NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE!
Brent
