New gun owner needs advice

For factory loaded ammo and "distance shooting" as well as hunting the the 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent choice. The bullet flies like a 300 WM but recoils less than the .308. A 140 Amax for paper and a 140gr soft point for deer.

For a reloader the .260 Remington would be my choice.
 
[RE] Hunting what?..

Deer and elk. But with the potential to take a human down at the longer ranges. Staying as FAR away from anything SHTF related as possible, mind you. In response to the question of my experience, I am trained very well in firearm operation and use. I am currently in the process of enlisting into the military (pre-MEPS, post-ASVAB) and plan enlisting in as a Cav scout or MP.

I don't care how hard a round hits as long as it can meet the range/accuracy/availability criteria.

And as you all know, a .22 rimfire is almost as rare on shelves these days as .50BMG. However, .22Lr provides the opportunity to practice marksmanship, but nothing past the basics.

-MM
 
Elk is a game changer. If you want accuracy past 500 meters, relatively inexpensive, and able to take down elk, I would look for a good 30-06. Personally, I would look for a Savage 110 or Remington 700 but there are plenty of other good choices. You could also go with a 308 or 270.
 
the rifle that meets your criteria is a Ruger American in .30-06. it comes with an optic for under $500.

that said, i cannot recommend this as a first rifle. the ammo (at roughly $1/shot) is likely to be an issue from a cost perspective. if $500 is too much to spend on a rifle, I can't imagine your budget can handle too much practice at $1/rnd either.

the Ruger American in .300blk is a good suggestion. it's slightly cheaper, compares well to a 7.62x39 but ballistically even the supers can't compete with a .30-06. and the non-hunting supersonics are $.50/rnd and up. hunting rounds are going to be at or over the price of the .30-06.

if you're true use purpose is hunting elk and you're truly expecting a kill at the ranges given then you're very clearly into calibers above .308.

that's pay-to-play territory (gun, optics, ammo for practice, ammo for hunting). If you're under 100yds then i'd recommend something that maybe you haven't considered:

a remington 870 express magnum 26" or longer 3.5" chambered smooth bore. run rifled (sometimes called foster) slugs in it.

it'll cover you for elk, deer, coyote, javelina, dove, quail, geese (with steel shot), etc. and you can get them for $350 and under.

there's a ton of shoot 12guage shotguns that fit this bill. if you can bring the range down to under 100yds, my suggestion is that your first large caliber gun be a 12guage (or if you prefer or need a smaller and lighter shotgun, a 20guage).
 
i'd also like to add that over 300m the practical application of most people's shooting skills as it pertains to the ethical take of game is quite frankly, over-exaggeration and utter bullsh*t. unless you're hitting a half-MOA dot for your given range factoring in wind, elevation, barometric pressure, the coriolis effect, your ballistic coefficient, relative humidity and heat mirage with no dope chart and no spotter i say you're full of it and more likely to end up wounding an animal. at your stated 500m, if you were able to achieve groups consistent with the above then you'd have a 2.5" group. to achieve that kind of boring regularity you need four things: an exceptional weapon, an excellent cartridge, good glass, and a ton of trigger time.

if you have the skills to pay the bills then you wouldn't expect unrealistic results from calibers that cannot obtain them. 7.62x54R and 7.62x39 are great rounds, but accuracy out of nearly any platform that shoots them is going to be 1.5MOA at best, and that's at 100yds and in a good platform. 7.62x39 is not a good choice over 300m, and you'd be lucky to hit a 5" target with an exceptional platform with that round. after 300m the drop is significant as is velocity loss.

notable exceptions for MOA expectancy would be a Rifle Dynamics DMR build or an SVD. Both are very, very far out of your budget.

long story short: i think your expectations, your caliber choices, and your budget are entirely out of line with one another.
 
I don't care how hard a round hits as long as it can meet the range/accuracy/availability criteria.

And as you all know, a .22 rimfire is almost as rare on shelves these days as .50BMG.

If you don't care how hard it hits you are doing something wrong. I am not worried though. An elk tag (if you could get one) will cost about the same as your budget for the rifle. That is just for the tag.

.22 not on the shelves? I see approximately 200 vendors on line with it in stock.
 
But with the potential to take a human down at the longer ranges. Staying as FAR away from anything SHTF related as possible, mind you.................................................................................................................. I am currently in the process of enlisting into the military (pre-MEPS, post-ASVAB) and plan enlisting in as a Cav scout or MP.

I certainly hope you leave the first part out when talking to the recruiter. He'll send you home POST HASTE.
 
[RE 40calguy]

I like your suggestion of getting a 12 gauge for my first rifle, and i do plan on purchasing a Mossberg 590 at a later date when funds allow.

In response to your statement on ethical range for the taking of game, I would never dream to hit what i can't shoot. The only target I'd ever hope to hit at such a range (+500m) would be steel. The rifle I want needs to perform as my "wanna be sniper" system, and also my go-to hunting rifle.

As I've stated before, power at longer ranges matters little to me, as I wouldn't attempt a shot from such a long distance on a live target. 400m is the maximum I would dream to attempt, and only on game the size of elk, where vitals are large and easy targets. And .308 hunting loads seem to have the energy to get through soft 1/8 steel at 500m so I feel it is acceptable on an elk at 400m

But on the flip side of the coin, the M16 system has a 500m range on its iron sights, so I know it can be considered lethal at that range as well. Accurate, no. But lethal none the less.


Basically, my options boil down to this;

5.56 vs. 7.62x51 (.223vs.308)

Thank you for your extremely bright insight and advice,

-MM
 
But on the flip side of the coin, the M16 system has a 500m range on its iron sights, so I know it can be considered lethal at that range as well. Accurate, no. But lethal none the less.

5.56 vs. 7.62x51 (.223vs.308)

:confused:

Apparently you know things that I don't or something like that.

Totally beside whatever the point of whatever this was but if you want to be a sniper that would mean joining the infantry and going to a light unit. You don't see a whole lot of cav scout snipers, none with ASI designation it isn't offered. Rarely you might see an MP but the competition for schools like sniper school can be pretty fierce.
 
I seem to think around WWI there were a lot of rifles with 1500-2000 meter sights on them. Doesn't mean they could shoot anywhere that far and be accurate.
 
Actually, a good M16 with a good shooter can do pretty well at 500-600 yards if there is no wind.

Still, at that range I would want 7.62x51 (7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester). If someone else (like a nice uncle) is buying the ammo, his choice.*

In the olden days, the military indulged in what they called "volley firing" in which whole companies lined up, set their sights to 2000 yards or meters, and cut loose at a target they might not even be able to see, like a railway station where enemy troops were getting off trains and forming up. Or at least that was the theory. I know such shooting was done; whether anyone was ever hurt, I don't know.

*Caution on accepting free ammo from your friendly uncle; it comes with a note that the targets shoot back.

Jim
 
WAY too many "call of duty" type statements in this thread.

To the OP...

You say you want a "long range" rifle but spec 7.62x39???
You dont care how hard it hits at distance, but want to hunt (something) at extended ranges?
You want a rifle thats a 7/8 on a 10scale on a budget that procludes a CZ ( in the afore mentioned X39 ctg?
You say your "skills are high" but this is your first gun??

I would say, wait till you have at least gone thru Bootcamp and qual'd with a service rifle. Take advantage of whatever training you can get. You start shooting high Expert with your service rifle...then start looking into "long range" stuff.
 
About a year or 2 ago, there Centerfire Systems and other online gun companies were selling Zastava M85 Mini-Mauser bolt action rifles - cheap. They had all sorts of calibers including 7.62x39.

Like many other deals I missed out. You might look around on gunbroker and see if you can find one + read some of the reviews / videos on them.
 
If you are going to hunt elk, get a .30-06 bolt action. If not, get a .223 if most of your practice will be less than 500m. If most of your practice will be 500-800m, get a .308.

Why?
.223 is cheaper, and shoots flat (but does not deliver big-game effects at distance)
.308 is good for hunting, and resists wind effects better than .223.
.30-06 is a good big-game cartridge, that can hit a bit harder than .308, if loaded right.
 
What is military stance on privately owned weapons? If you are in the enlistment process what are you going to do with the rifle while in service.
 
Panfisher said:
What is military stance on privately owned weapons? If you are in the enlistment process what are you going to do with the rifle while in service.

For a single soldier living in the barracks it isn't a simple thing. It has to stay in the units arms room, and basically the weapon gets a hand receipt signing it over as the commanders responsibility. Then when the soldier wants to take it out to the range they have to get permission to take it out of the arms room. The commander has to authorize it by having the unit armorer come in on their day off and open the arms room and issue the rifle to its owner. Then it has to be returned to the arms room when the soldier is done at the range. So you have to again coordinate withe the unit armorer to return it to the arms room.

Every firearm must be registered as well with the provost marshals office by serial number. You are only allowed to transport them from the barracks, post housing, off-post housing to the range on post and back, same applies to taking it off post once you enter the installation. Don't get caught at the PX, gas station, or food vendor on post with your guns or you'll probably face at a minimum of a company grade Article 15. That could mean your restricted to post, extra duty, and forfeiture of half your pay usually a minimum of 30 days.

If living in barracks it's simpler just to leave your rifle, shotguns, and pistols with your parents or someone you trust. You can't take firearms to most overseas duty stations as well. Firearm ownership is a PITA for a single soldier in the military, unless they are authorized to live off post.

It's also a lot simpler to use off post shooting ranges, as usually you have to hold the rank of E5 or higher to open the range for privately owned weapons on post. When you open the range you are responsible for overseeing the safety of everyone who shows up to shoot until you close it and turn it back over to range control. You're also responsible for the cleanliness of the range when you sign for it.
 
I am going to go ahead and say that a lot of the above is old data and not correct. Each post has a different weapons policy as set by the installation commander with input from the major commands on whatever installation it is. Some allow storage in BOQ/ BEQ, some don't. Ft. Stewart for example allows people to carry while on the highway right of way that runs through post.

I am not going to cover every post but some posts now allow concealed carry for certain people under certain circumstances. Many posts have a POW range that may be associated with a Rod and Gun club that has regular business hours. Some allow storage at the Rod and Gun club.

All of the services now offer LEOSA credentialing for off duty and retired MP/ SPs that allows on base and nationwide carry with different levels of red tapes and hurdles by service:

http://www.afsf.lackland.af.mil/LEOSA.html

http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/ad2015_03.pdf

Other changes too:

Apparently the Air Force trusts it's airmen more than the Chief of Staff of the Army trusts its soldiers:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...authorized-conceal-carry-open-carry-base.html

The Navy went with armed seamen guards at it's recruiting stations. I will point out that the concealed carry guy that fought it out with the terror attacker in Chattanooga did not receive any negative actions such as Captains Mast or Court Martial.

The Army would rather have a hundred soldiers murdered by terrorists than one accidental shooting. Because by their twisted logic the accident was preventable and the deaths at the hands of bad guys were not.

:confused:

Bringing a weapon to basic training or a school will get you thrown out of either. Our hero above could leave it with family or friends until he gets shipped to his PDS.
 
Old Bill Dibble said:
I am going to go ahead and say that a lot of the above is old data and not correct.

All that I stated is in line with the current AR 190- 11 and some is 4th ID standards at Ft Carson (closest base). However, you're right each post is a little different. Also you posted memos that only apply to off duty LEO/MP that doesn't apply to all soldiers. As far as traveling a highway through a base, you usually don't enter a base gate until you exit the highway.

All stand alone facilities off Army bases are required to be armed now since Chattanooga. My Reserve facility has at least one E5 or higher armed while the building is occupied, since it isn't located in a military base. However I'm sure there will be a policy change that state no personally owned weapons. I know the policy I was briefed on had quite the laundry list of UCMJ offenses we'd be violating by bringing a weapon to our facility.

As far as the Navy officer involved in the TN shootings, who knows what the final fallout will be? He was in violation of policy by carrying a personal weapon at his work. He may eventually be charged or asked to retire. He may simply be passed over for his next promotion, which ultimately ends his career. Of course nothing could happen to him as well.
 
Actually the Navy made a public statement that the LCDR would face no adverse action at all.

The OP stated he was considering becoming an MP, so I think information on that would be relevant to this thread don't you?

Just because you don't go through a gate does not mean that you aren't on a military base. Many bases only secure certain areas. It's better than it used to be but there are a lot of bases that get cut through traffic.
 
Back
Top