New changes to Az Gun Laws "No Dry Ice"

Friend of mine was a coach for the Chicago Fire soccer team. He came home one day and found his son in the hospital blinded because some low life planted a dry ice bomb and he took the blast in his face. Devastated my friend, he had a nervous break down and never coached again. Wouldn't leave home and leave his son unattended anymore. Those bombs are not funny.
 
One thing to seriously consider when thinking about dry ice. Bombs which do not explode are a major safety problem. They cannot be left, yet cannot be safely approached.

Because dry ice bombs are so dangerous, in some areas possession of these devices is a felony.

Make one of these in a glass container and you have a very effective IED.

Denver News

DENVER -- Teens may think making dry ice bombs are fun, but police warn they are dangerous and anyone caught with such a device could face felony charges.
 
Why is the dry ice bomb law a stupid law?

WildcuriousAlaska TM
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You're saying that existing laws against harming people do not criminalize the act of making a dry ice bomb and using it in a way that hurts someone?

By the time they get done passing specific laws for every single possible weapon variant, the criminal code will stretch from here to the moon.

Next up: vinegar and baking soda.
 
I think that the dry ice bomb is not really a gun related part of the law for Arizona. I didn't take the time to read or understand the entire context of the law.

I think any type of a bomb should be considered a felony. Maybe there could be better wording to the extent that any type of bomb, explosive device made is illegal regardless of what material is used.

You know the government they think they are elected to pass laws. I often thought how nice it would be if we could go four years with no new laws.
 
A guy who, at this time, must remain nameless worked at a small shop that made aluminum hand railings and stairs...
Learned that if you take some of this stuff...
http://www.highsidechem.com/pinkstf.html
Acid based aluminum cleaner...
poured into a coke bottle along with a small handfull of aluminum shavings from under the saw table, close it and toss it... It makes a heck of a kaboom... And it is super hot as well as chemically dangerous... Don't know if it was illegal or not but bet it will be if anyone ever gets harmed from this...
Brent
 
Maybe we should require people to fill out BATFE form CO2236 when buying dry ice and subject them to a 10-day waiting period, eh?

Seriously, all that's happening is people have found a cheap source to make sufficient pressure, to burst a common container via a chemical reaction. Use calcium carbide and water and you can make the gas flammable.

The problem is that some people get hurt because they don't appreciate the forces involved and the potential dangers.
 
I think I'll just stick to MRE heaters.
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Leave it to a soldiers idle mind to come up with some crazy stuff. When I went to Bosnia as part of IFOR we used to put the contents of several MRE heaters into 1ltr water bottles with a few ounces of water. Once the bottle got real hot and swelled up we would toss it in the fire pit. Made for a very impressive ball of fire.

Needless to say we had to put a stop to it when they started using 1 gallon jugs. Kind of made for a minature hydrogen bomb. :eek:
 
You're saying that existing laws against harming people do not criminalize the act of making a dry ice bomb and using it in a way that hurts someone?
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Thats not the issue, nor is it the subject of the particular statute quoted.

WildsonoonecantellmewhyitsstupidAlaska TM
 
I think it made the point.... just like what does dry ice have to do with a criminal

act and the same with not being able to carry an ice cream cone in your back pocket....

some lame brained legislator decided it would stop a crime when the crime is already illegal and has a penalty...

no different than outlawing guns will stop people from killing each other for what ever reason.
 
I think it made the point.... just like what does dry ice have to do with a criminal
act and the same with not being able to carry an ice cream cone in your back pocket....

some lame brained legislator decided it would stop a crime when the crime is already illegal and has a penalty...

no different than outlawing guns will stop people from killing each other for what ever reason.
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You are wrong. Read the statute again.

WildandagainandagainuntilafewwordsjumpoutatyouAlaska TM
 
You're saying that existing laws against harming people do not criminalize the act of making a dry ice bomb and using it in a way that hurts someone?
Thats not the issue, nor is it the subject of the particular statute quoted.
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Okay, so it criminalizes possession of dry ice + *intent* to use it to hurt someone. The intent to harm is not connected with the prohibited weapon, but it's connected with the possession of dry ice. Can you think of any reason for this law other than a dry ice bomb... that is, where the dry ice is a component of the prohibited weapon in question?

I really don't think it was the legislature's intent to create a new offense to add to the rap sheet of someone who builds/owns/transports/sells/buys illegal weapons and also happens to have a side business of making dry ice bombs. For that reason I think the legislature's intent was that the dry ice in question would be connected to the prohibited weapon.

Please explain what else you think the quoted statute does.

antipitas said:
13-3102(A)(3) Manufacturing, possessing, transporting, selling or transferring a prohibited weapon, except that if the violation involves dry ice, a person commits [an additional crime] by knowingly possessing the dry ice with the intent to cause injury to or death of another person or to cause damage to the property of another person;
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WildsonoonecantellmewhyitsstupidAlaska TM
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It is stupid because you might as well criminalize possession of scissors, soldering irons, wood glue, or chemistry equipment with intent to use them to commit a crime, if the possession of said item is connected with an offense involving some sort or prohibited weapon.

The most dangerous thing about dry ice in my experience is that you can suffocate in enclosed spaces if you have it in an unsealed container. But since that probably doesn't involve a prohibited weapon (Arizona's definition of prohibited weapon in 13-3101 does not include noxious substances anything similar), it wouldn't be a separate offense if for instance someone intended to put a block of dry ice in someone else's bedroom overnight. If anything involving CO2 deserves to be separately criminalized, that method of (attempted) murder is a heinous act that certainly qualifies.

(edit: I'm also concerned about the dual inclusion of a variety of explosives under 13-3101 (A)(8)(a)(i) and (A)(8)(a)(vii). A8a(i) does have an exception for legally owned destructive devices, but A8a(vii) does not, and seems to include explosive DDs.)
 
It is stupid because you might as well criminalize possession of scissors, soldering irons, wood glue, or chemistry equipment with intent to use them to commit a crime, if the possession of said item is connected with an offense involving some sort or prohibited weapon.
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And there is no statute covering dangerous instruments in Arizona? Isn't a knife or scissors a dangerous instrument per se? How about a soldering iron? Would there be a question that a soldering iron isnt a dangerous instrument>

Is dry ice per se an dangerous instrument? I think not. So the law fills the lacunae, in light of some documented examples of dry ice bombs.

WildnotalllawsarestupidalthoughmanyareAlaska TM
 
Are you talking about filling a hole in the AZ law's defintion of "dangerous weapon"? Because that's a very specific term.

"knife" "blade" "edge" "scissors" occur nowhere in 13-3101.

Most (all?) state laws accept that anything used in a dangerous fashion becomes a dangerous or deadly weapon. They shouldn't need a specific extra law to cover dry ice bombs.

The fact that they included intent to harm in the law means that they're not trying to make it a per se weapon. So, what advantage are they gaining over simply charging people with aggravated assault/battery, reckless endangerment, or any of a host of other laws that potentially also apply?
 
The fact that they included intent to harm in the law means that they're not trying to make it a per se weapon. So, what advantage are they gaining over simply charging people with aggravated assault/battery, reckless endangerment, or any of a host of other laws that potentially also apply?
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Lets say that M13 has been using dry ice bombs to harass...NRA members by blowing up their cars.

Police pull over MS13 dudes, find cooler full of dry ice, a dozen glass quart jars, nails and a note saying Here's a gift for you white guys.

Crime? before law? After law?

WilditsaquestionofintentAlaska TM
 
They cannot be left, yet cannot be safely approached.
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Pellet gun... And it is a pressure bomb, usually made in a less than perfectly sealed pop bottle. It isn't like it will hold the pressure for years and remain dangerous like a landmine.
 
Antipitas said:
13-3102(A)(3) Manufacturing, possessing, transporting, selling or transferring a prohibited weapon, except that if the violation involves dry ice, a person commits [an additional crime] by knowingly possessing the dry ice with the intent to cause injury to or death of another person or to cause damage to the property of another person;
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So, Wild.... in Arizona I can have them charge you under this statute if you grab a piece of dry ice and drop it down my pants and it causes any kind of frostbite burn?

Gotta stop those dry-ice assaults. :rolleyes:

My guess is that the law came about because somewhere in AZ, a couple of nimrods tried it after watching some YouTube videos and either;
(a) Hurt themselves
(b) injured a 3rd party.

Or there was an incident using a glass bottle or something like nails to turn it into an antipersonnel device.

This is the big trend with lawmakers -- don't outlaw the actual act, outlaw anything leading up to the act and/or the mere possession of something.
 
Lets say that M13 has been using dry ice bombs to harass...NRA members by blowing up their cars.

Police pull over MS13 dudes, find cooler full of dry ice, a dozen glass quart jars, nails and a note saying Here's a gift for you white guys.

Crime? before law? After law?
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Looks like a crime before the passage of this new law.

People have been convicted of murder on far more circumstantial evidence than that.

By the time the prosecution has proven intent -- required as an element of the added dry ice offense -- they've proven motive for the carbombing(s). Clearly the gang had the means since they had dry ice and "bomb" materials, and if they were pulled over near the crime scene they had opportunity. What jury won't convict on that?
 
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