New ammo technology/multiple impact bullet
- Thread starter jabba21
- Start date
RedBowTies88
New member
God I was just reminded of how much I hate that guy's videos.
I would love to see how deep those fragments penetrate in gelatin. I bet it's not much.
I would love to see how deep those fragments penetrate in gelatin. I bet it's not much.
If regular handgun ammo was simply not available and I had to opt for something like this, I would go the route of the Winchester PDX1 ammo.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx
My in-laws keep this in a S&W Governor in their bedroom for home defense. My personal experience shooting it at the range, the disks easily hold close enough together that nothing will miss a body-sized target when aiming at center mass.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx
My in-laws keep this in a S&W Governor in their bedroom for home defense. My personal experience shooting it at the range, the disks easily hold close enough together that nothing will miss a body-sized target when aiming at center mass.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sorry, but some of the claims are just bogus wishful thinking. The fragments are designed to revector to do maximum damage without over penetrating? What if they just revector out of the body?
This stuff makes extreme shock look good.
This stuff makes extreme shock look good.
I'm all for collecting odd ball rounds for the sake of collecting, but this product is just silly in its concept and purpose.
Tests on actual flesh and gel will probably give enough evidence to that this product fails to meet HD/SD requirements. Sure, it'll punch through a paper at 7 yds...but so will a rock if you throw it hard enough.
Tests on actual flesh and gel will probably give enough evidence to that this product fails to meet HD/SD requirements. Sure, it'll punch through a paper at 7 yds...but so will a rock if you throw it hard enough.
If you want wide shot dispersion so you can be fairly certain of a hit (leaving aside the idea of it being an effective hit, for now), why not just shoot a Judge?
I've seen strung shot, tailed shot, buck & ball, and a number of other things, some of them actually make a limited amount of sense, in a shotgun. They are more than a little foolish, and less effective, out of a handgun round.
I'm a longtime fan of the .410/.45 Colt combination barrel in a Contender, or other suitable handgun. The .410 shell is a very useful and potent small game shot, under certain conditions. Varmint/predator control being the most useful.
Any gun is useful for selfdefense, even the .410, and the right ammo allows it to be the most effective possible, but not every combination is as useful and effective as every other.
Shotguns, (and here we're looking at 20ga and up..) have a reputation for being very effective for self defense. But too many people only focus on the "multiple hits" aspect as what makes them so effective, and completely discount, or do not consciously take into account, the fact that what makes the shotgun so effective isn't the multiple hits, its is the mass of the projectiles that gets the job done.
Many discount the use of birdshot for defense, and, compared to larger projectiles, they have a point, small shot doesn't penetrate much, and is unlikely to be a good "stopper", from the point of view of being able to reach vital organs deep in the body.
Taking a standard pistol round, where the weight(mass) of the projectile is reduced by using multiple shot, and fastening them together, is only going to decrease the available penetration capability of the round in question.
Horrific surface wounds can stop a fight, and often do. But they cannot be counted on to physically stop an attack. From a self defense standpoint, anything that stops the attack, including anything that makes the attacker change their mind and break off is a success.
I'm not saying the "chain shot" won't work, a face full of birdshot has a pretty high "discourage" factor at across the room range, too. But, again, the birdshot is "bigger" mass when it hits than any common pistol round, too.
I do have to wonder about how trauma surgeons would view the use of "chain shot". OR the prosecutor....
I've seen strung shot, tailed shot, buck & ball, and a number of other things, some of them actually make a limited amount of sense, in a shotgun. They are more than a little foolish, and less effective, out of a handgun round.
I'm a longtime fan of the .410/.45 Colt combination barrel in a Contender, or other suitable handgun. The .410 shell is a very useful and potent small game shot, under certain conditions. Varmint/predator control being the most useful.
Any gun is useful for selfdefense, even the .410, and the right ammo allows it to be the most effective possible, but not every combination is as useful and effective as every other.
Shotguns, (and here we're looking at 20ga and up..) have a reputation for being very effective for self defense. But too many people only focus on the "multiple hits" aspect as what makes them so effective, and completely discount, or do not consciously take into account, the fact that what makes the shotgun so effective isn't the multiple hits, its is the mass of the projectiles that gets the job done.
Many discount the use of birdshot for defense, and, compared to larger projectiles, they have a point, small shot doesn't penetrate much, and is unlikely to be a good "stopper", from the point of view of being able to reach vital organs deep in the body.
Taking a standard pistol round, where the weight(mass) of the projectile is reduced by using multiple shot, and fastening them together, is only going to decrease the available penetration capability of the round in question.
Horrific surface wounds can stop a fight, and often do. But they cannot be counted on to physically stop an attack. From a self defense standpoint, anything that stops the attack, including anything that makes the attacker change their mind and break off is a success.
I'm not saying the "chain shot" won't work, a face full of birdshot has a pretty high "discourage" factor at across the room range, too. But, again, the birdshot is "bigger" mass when it hits than any common pistol round, too.
I do have to wonder about how trauma surgeons would view the use of "chain shot". OR the prosecutor....
They just posted a follow up video today showcasing the 12 gauge. In this video, they do actually show a bit of penetration testing on plywood with somewhat decent results. They also mention that "another big youtube channel" that does a lot of ballistics testing will be testing it soon with ballistics gel. I'm going to assume he means TNOutdoors9. His opinion I would actually be interested in hearing.
Mike Irwin
Staff
I think the big difference between the stuff and Civil War era buck and ball is that buck and ball actually worked. We know that to be a fact from the historical record. This stuff? Who knows.
Another big difference is that buck and ball would have been relatively cheap, while this stuff is frighteningly expensive.
The biggest drawback to buck and ball is its limited range compared to a rifled musket.
But, as the Irish Brigade proved at the Sunken Road at Antietam, if they could get into effective range, buck and ball was absolutely devastating.
In fact, buck and ball features prominently on the monument to the 12th New Jersey Volunteer Infantry at Gettysburg. http://www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/NJ/12NJ.php
Another big difference is that buck and ball would have been relatively cheap, while this stuff is frighteningly expensive.
The biggest drawback to buck and ball is its limited range compared to a rifled musket.
But, as the Irish Brigade proved at the Sunken Road at Antietam, if they could get into effective range, buck and ball was absolutely devastating.
In fact, buck and ball features prominently on the monument to the 12th New Jersey Volunteer Infantry at Gettysburg. http://www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/NJ/12NJ.php
I'm not going to buy it, but I think it's an interesting idea.
Anyone know what they're made of?
If it's heavy enough, and if it's moving fast enough sdo that it gets decent penetration, it might actually be useful.
If the cable actually stays attached, it could potentially be a pretty devastating round against soft tissue.
But that's a whole lot of "ifs".
I'll definitely keep an eye out for gel tests.
It might not be nearly as useful as a new JHP design, but - whether it surprises with success, or amuses with dismal failure - it should certainly be more fun to watch than yet another picture of ~14" of penetration, and ~1.5x expansion.
Anyone know what they're made of?
If it's heavy enough, and if it's moving fast enough sdo that it gets decent penetration, it might actually be useful.
If the cable actually stays attached, it could potentially be a pretty devastating round against soft tissue.
But that's a whole lot of "ifs".
I'll definitely keep an eye out for gel tests.
It might not be nearly as useful as a new JHP design, but - whether it surprises with success, or amuses with dismal failure - it should certainly be more fun to watch than yet another picture of ~14" of penetration, and ~1.5x expansion.
Tim from the MilitaryArms Channel and TheBangSwitch just posted a write up on this ammo.
It can be read here:
http://www.thebangswitch.com/multiple-impact-bullet/
It can be read here:
http://www.thebangswitch.com/multiple-impact-bullet/
Bailey Boat
Moderator
I think I'll buy a box and just stash it away. You know how oddball crap like this seems to go up in price as time passes and it becomes discontinued.
Impact
Can't speak to human targets. However, as a bird hunter having shot many hundreds of birds on shooting operations and in the wild. I can vouch for the real world FACT that multiple pellets striking a bird AT THE SAME TIME tremendously increases lethality. That's why the 16 ga. and the 28 ga. are so lethal in comparison to other gauge shotguns.
As they have the shortest "shot strings" and the pellets strike at essentially the same instant. Other gauges take a few micro seconds to put the same number of shot on target.
Somewhere around my house I have a scientific paper which "proves" that it takes at least 1/4 oz. more shot in a 12 ga. to equal a 16. ga. with the same shot. Of course liars can prove any thing. But my experience has made me a believer that there is validity to "short shot strings" kill better, faster, on birds.
A 16 gauge kills more birds "dead right there" as does the 28 ga. Little wounding, no flopping, just "bang" and the dog retrieves.
Can't speak to human targets. However, as a bird hunter having shot many hundreds of birds on shooting operations and in the wild. I can vouch for the real world FACT that multiple pellets striking a bird AT THE SAME TIME tremendously increases lethality. That's why the 16 ga. and the 28 ga. are so lethal in comparison to other gauge shotguns.
As they have the shortest "shot strings" and the pellets strike at essentially the same instant. Other gauges take a few micro seconds to put the same number of shot on target.
Somewhere around my house I have a scientific paper which "proves" that it takes at least 1/4 oz. more shot in a 12 ga. to equal a 16. ga. with the same shot. Of course liars can prove any thing. But my experience has made me a believer that there is validity to "short shot strings" kill better, faster, on birds.
A 16 gauge kills more birds "dead right there" as does the 28 ga. Little wounding, no flopping, just "bang" and the dog retrieves.
A quantum leap in bullet technology.
Approved by the ATF.
Incredible animated video.
The triple defense!!!!!
I don’t see why all of you are so down about this, with the description above it has to work!
I am going to buy several boxes, that way if I ever get attacked by a paper target I’ll be safe.
I think the next version will have the bullets designed so that as it rotates it will act like a helicopter rotor, that way it will take the lift and propel it faster be able to go twice as far.
I also heard that Ronco is looking at it for their new and improved cheese cutter.
Approved by the ATF.
Incredible animated video.
The triple defense!!!!!
I don’t see why all of you are so down about this, with the description above it has to work!
I am going to buy several boxes, that way if I ever get attacked by a paper target I’ll be safe.
I think the next version will have the bullets designed so that as it rotates it will act like a helicopter rotor, that way it will take the lift and propel it faster be able to go twice as far.
I also heard that Ronco is looking at it for their new and improved cheese cutter.