New 1911 owner

Brian, I saw the moon landing live on television...if I see an MIM part break live on television, I will believe it, okay?
As to your second question, I have owned five Colts, a 1930s era military issue piece redone by Augusta Armory (which was an EXCELLENT gun but for the inevitable hammerbite I get from a 1911 without beavertail and the tiny GI sights), a Limited Edition stainless Lightweight Officers ACP that I had lightly customized, a 1991A1 also lightly customized, and two of the new XSL Series Colts, a Lightweight and a Combat Commander.
Of Springfield Armory 1911s I have owned five, four milspecs through the years and one Champion. Never seem to be able to hold onto the Springfields as they seemed a bit rougher than the Colts and had worse triggers. Would love to try one of the new Loaded Springfields, but can't seem to justify picking one up when I already have two Colts and two Kimbers currently.

Now, in a semi-rant you said:
>>By your standards, since I never met anyone who has been raped, or robbed or shot then it must not happen.<<


I can't believe you have never met anyone that was raped or robbed or shot. I have met COUNTLESS people who were robbed, quite a few who have been shot (mostly cops and combat vets) and at least three women who have been raped and I am only 33...how old are you?


>>Call Bill Laughtridge at Cylinder and Slide and talk to him about it, call Dane Burns, call Richard Heinie and others who ACTUALLY know about 1911's and ask them too.<<

So, your position is that I should talk to people who repair broken 1911s for a living and ask them how many broken 1911s they have seen? Again, this is like asking a cop about human nature...he only sees the worst of it. Those people also have a vested interest in getting those with factory custom guns to further "customize" their pistols. As do you. Sorry, to be frank, I am following the money here.

>> Every one of them and I have seen them break, warped or not work.<<

Seeing how your business is fixing broken 1911s I am somehow not surprised you have seen a few.

>>It's a well known fact, verified by Kimber, that their slide stops suck. They are a MIM part.<<

No, it is a well known fact that a FEW Kimber slide stops have had problems. A few. And I have had no confirmation from anyone with credibility that these few problems are the result of the part being MIM.

>>I've seen them break, not work and warped. There have been tons on people on all these forums who had to have their slide stops replaced. That's called proof.<<

No, it's called anecdotal evidence and is worth as much as my own anecdotal evidence. Also, TONS??? Hyperbolize much, Brian?

>> How many 1911's have you worked on?<<

A couple. I am not a gunsmith. I have, however, a couple friends who are smiths, one of whom specializes in ARs and 1911s.

>>How many have you actually owned?<<

Over the years, about two dozen. Five Colts, five Springfields, four Kimbers, two Para Ordnances, four Norincos, a Charles Daly, a Frankenstein parts gun on an Essex frame that sucked the hind tit, and an old Star.

>>How many gunsmiths have you talked to, and I'm not talking about you're local plumer or general gunsmith but one that specializes in
1911's?<<

Plumer? Is that someone who puts feathers on 1911s? Anyway, as I said I have two friends who are smiths, one who specializes in 1911s, and have talked to many more...I have made a few connections in the gun community through the years.

>> Fact is, in the gunsmithing community and in the firearms business the Kimbers are known as a overrated, over hyped product. <<

Sure, right. I believe you Brian...after all, why SHOULDN'T I believe someone who has a vested interest in "customizing" 1911s when they criticize a factory custom gun? yeah...

>>You're local dealers aren't going to tell you different because most don't know so because they are armchair commando's who only know about guns from magazines or press releases and don't have any practical experience, or aren't going to admit they sell damaged goods.<<


Wow, Brian, with psychic abilities like that you are wasting your time as a gunsmith. Why don't you start your own 900 number? It's amazing how you know all about the dealers I know and my relationship with them. Heh.


>>Most shooters haven't shot more than a couple of hundred rounds through the guns to
know anything. Get to a couple of thousand and then see.<<

Couple thousand was many many moons ago. I put five thousand rounds through my first Kimber (wound up having to sell that one with a few others to get the downpayment for our house), over 500 through my Compact Aluminum before I sold it (liked carrying the full size so I didn't need it), around a thousand through my second Classic Custom (which I still have) and about 3000 and counting through my Classic Stainless Gold Match. And yet to have a jam with any of them.
 
Hey Jorge, guess you don't REALLY know me or you would know I never flamed MsLokNLoad or anyone else. I never blamed her for getting angry that her package was mis-shipped, I blamed others who never had ANY experience with the gun for piling on ignorantly...sort of like people in here do.
 
Rik-"Sure, right. I believe you Brian...after all, why SHOULDN'T I believe someone who has a vested interest in "customizing" 1911s when they criticize a factory custom gun? yeah.."

If that were so, I would encourage people to buy yhe Kimbers so I would get more work to fix them. I don't want to get work by snowing people like you are. Are Kimbers better than Colts, in some areas yes, some no.

I haven't told people not to buy Kimber or discourage them not to, I'm just telling them the facts of what I see on a daily basis. If you have quite a few Kimbers coming through the door, and they all have the same problems (tight chambers, crappy slide stops) then that says something. You may choose to ignore it. Go ahead, it's your money. Buyer beware. If there wasn't a problem, then I and other smiths would have them coming through the door in such numbers. I don't think that they have a abnormally high number, no more than Colt or Springfield. They probably have more than Kimber, but then again they are not charging the price, and advertising the guns are perfect either.

And by the way, you always state on here that 99.9% of Kimber owners have no problems and are happy. Well at 30,000 guns a year, that's 30 guns. So only 30 people have had problems with their guns in the last year huh? I have worked on more than that, so I know that ain't so. Try multiplying it by ten.

If Kimber would sell a gun with no cocking serrations, standard rear sight cut and barstock or tool steel parts instead of MIM, i would by a few myself, and use them quite regularly as base guns, but I'm not going to pay a premium for a gun, then junk the plastic and MIM parts.

We will have to disagree on this subject till the cows come home. I'll stick with my various makes and you can have your Kimbers.

The only bigger myth in the world of 1911's other than Kimbers are perfect are that Series 70 Colts are. Most Series 70's are poorly machined and finished. The Series 80 guns are better machined.

Brian

P.S- I'm working on a Kimber Compact right now for a guy, and I'll post some pics on the net if I can get some. It's a very nice gun now. Heinie sights, serrated rear of slide, fiber optic front, Brown beavertail, Stippling on the gun, reliability package and complete dehorning. I'd keep it if I had the chance.
 
NO gun is perfect Brian. I have never denied that some people have problems with their Kimbers. What I deny is that the percentage of people who have problems with their Kimbers is significantly greater than the percentage of people who have problems with ANY brand of gun. All I can say is that MY Kimbers and those owned by my friends and acquaintances have been perfect.
 
Well one thing I give Kimber credit for and a BIG thank you for is that their entry into the market caused the lazy azzes over at Colt and Springfield to do what they should have for years and upgrade their products and equipment. That being said however, I now find it somewhat discouraging that they all want to offer the same thing. Funky sight cust, forward cocking serrations, beavertail of their choice. I thinkt hat they should make plain jane models for those who want to put the features and parts they like on the gun, and the enhanced versions with the stuff on them for your basic shooter who may not be so demanding.

Kimbers products were better when they kept the production lower. That's the way it is in all business, up production levels quality drops. The Kimbers to watch for are the ones made in Clackmas, OR. Those are the best fit and made ones, the first ones made. If you find one, grab it. I probably will if I find one.

Brian
 
None of the 1911s were ever made in Oregon. The Kimber 1911s were all made in Yonkers, NY...the business offices were in Oregon originally, which is why that is on the gun, but the guns were always made in NY. That is straight from the mouth of a Kimber rep I talked to.
 
Brian, please save your breath. I can tell that RikWriter has gotten your feathers ruffles (as are mine) and he's just not worth it. He and I have gone round-and-round about this on other threads. For all we know, he works or has stock in Kimber. He said himself, "no gun is perfect" then contradicted himself in the same post "my Kimbers have been perfect." I wish I had known you (Brian) when I had my Kimber, because I would have sent it to you to fix, since George the Overpaid Villiage Idiot couldn't. RikWriter, you want "tons" of unhappy Kimber owners? I weigh in at an even 185 lbs...Brian, start helping me tally this up, I'd bet we could get a couple of tons pretty quick!

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"Those who cannot understand safe design nor fine trigger mechanics need not consider the 1911, for them, the Glock is a fine weapon, since it has neither!"---by Me.
 
Bitch moan

Moan bitch

Ford

Chevy

Kimber

Colt

Less Filling

Tastes Great

Hello? The point was *I* got a new gun, and it's a 1911, and it shoots wonderfully. Give the debate a rest and share in my joy before I kick all your...

;)

(BTW: my bet is the Ford guys like the Colts and the Kimber guys like Chevys. Just wanted to give you something else to argue about!)


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-stark-
ShootersNetwork
http://www.shootersnetwork.com
Web Hosting & Design for the shooting community
 
Once again, a legitimate inquiry has turned into a quagmire of conflagration.

Up in Quantico they teach people how to engage in small unit tactics...maybe this board could save them time!
 
Rik,

You're right and wrong. The Oregon guns used some parts that were different than the current ones, barrels and a few small parts. The guns were assembled in NY, shipped to Oregon for inspection and testing and any tweaking that needed to be done. The Oregon guns were little better fit and seemed to be a little smoother. Of course the production was 1/3 of what it is now, so that might be a factor too.

By the way, I'm not a Kimber or Colt, Ford or Chevy man. I like whatever works the best at the time, and for me none of the above are right out of the box. I have to set it up to my somewhat rigid standards and that means rebuilding whatever it is. I don't want to spend good money, and then replace the gun and be stuck with options I don't like. That's why I wouldn't buy a Kimber. That's why I use a basic Colt or Springfield or a match slide and frame and then make it the way I want. Like I said before, and I'll mention this to Kimber next month at the SHOT Show, is that they should make a more basic model for people to use as a base gun, withut the sight cut and without the beavertail and cocking serrations and drop the price a bit. They would see allot of them.

Brian
 
WOW;;;; Congrats on the new gun. I would only recomend shock buffs and extra mags/holster. Don't let all the noise about colt/springfield/kimber etc bother you. BTW everyone knows Ford is much better then Chevy. "A least in the heavy duty pickup area" :) :) :)
Now now take it easy I am not saying a chevy can't be made to work as good as a standard for. Just spend 4-6000$$ and you will have a useable truck. :) :) :)
To those who don't catch the smiley faces this means this is a joke. Watch your blood pressure.
 
Brian, why would Kimber want to produce a "base model" when their whole raison d'etre is to produce a *factory custom gun*? That would make very little sense. The reason Kimber is so successful is that they can sell a gun with all the extras you would have to pay a smith hundreds of dollars to buy and install for a "stock" price. The "stock" gun market is covered by Springfield milspecs and Colt 1991A1s. Which, I think, is one reason custom 1911 smiths dislike Kimber.
Frontsighti, thanks again for showing you have no rational argument, no clue as to what you are talking about and no inclination to engage in real discussion. I knew that already, but thanks for showing those who may not have known.
 
Zzzzzz... uh, whazzat?

Confess, RikWriter! You were one of the original 100 gunzine writers that K!M3ER gave a pistol to. I never heard any of them diss a K!M3ER either! K!M3ER, the greatest pistol in the world (that I received free)!! Impartial Gunzine Writer



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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
 
stark, as you can see, you're request fell on deaf ears. Some people just don't listen. Yet they want their rantings to be heard/seen by everyone else, when in fact everyone else doesn't give a damn for their opinions.

Congrats on your new gun, I can guarantee you'll enjoy it. Will it be perfect? Of course not, is anything?
 
Because Rik, not everyone likes the modifications done to the Kimbers. Most people I know don't like or care about the front cocking serrations, Most people replace the Kimber rear sight so why have it there to begin with, some people want a different grip safety and such. They want to personalize a gun and have a TRUE custom gun, not one of 10,000 like it. Something individual. All they would have to do is make a limited run of 1000 guns and see how it floats. If they don't move, then they can always make them into something else. If they do move, and my hunch is that they would, then it could be a limited production offering that they offer every once in awhile.

And as for the original topic of this thread before it spun off, have fun with your new gun Stark. Just remember that any 1911, regardless of who makes it is dependent on good mags, ammo and lubrication with emphasis on the mags. There are allot of mags on the market for 1911's, but not that many good ones. Shoot her, get used to it and if you get a chance try a match or two with her. The 1911 is the best all around handgun anywhere.

Brian
 
Well, I guess I did exactly what I wanted to do, RikWriter! Did you realize that I could play you like a harp? Just look at yourself! Go take a little BP medicine and calm down...and note, NEVER, ONCE, did I insult your intelligence, nor opinions! Oh, while you're going to the medicine cabinet, try taking off the blinders, there's a whole new world beyond Kimber! Besides, you might trip on a pi** poor slide stop!
 
Well Brian, you totally missed my point. The fact is, there are other manufacturers that make base guns. If people want base guns to have someone else modify, they should buy those guns. Kimber exists because there is a HUGE demand for guns that come from the factory with those features standard for a reasonable price. And no, most people do not replace the sights. I have not met one person who replaced the sights on a Kimber with non-Kimber sights. My point, which you still have not addressed, is that YOU and other gunsmiths who specialize in 1911s dislike Kimber because you like to customize guns YOUR way. Fine...buy a SA milspec or a Colt 1991A1 and go to town. That is not the purpose behind Kimbers.

Frontsighti, you played me?? Hehe, okay. Whatever makes you happy. As for my blood pressure, don't flatter yourself. I have a three year old son, so I am used to dealing with a mentality on your level without getting unduly upset about it.
 
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