Negligent Discharge.

A discharge caused by the knowledgeable operator's failure to properly perform an intended action is negligence.

Fortunately, the other rules were followed, so only minor property damage occurred. It is a good lesson for us all. Even experienced people make mistakes. That is why discipline and overlapping safety measures are important.
 
3. Unintentional (this is sub decided)
a. Voluntary-shooter does all the elements nessary to fire the gun without the intent to shoot.
1.Consciously pressing trigger not wanting the gun to shoot i.e. Disassembling a Block

b. Involuntary- outside the realm of cons us intention
1. Sympathetic response/inter limb interaction
2. Startle reaction
3. Balance disruption
No where is negligent stated.
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Once again, the definition of negligence is "failure to take proper care in doing something." If I don't have the intent to shoot and I do all the elements necessary to fire the gun (see a.) and it fires, would you characterize that as "proper care?"

Likewise, if I consciously press the trigger not wanting the gun to shoot (i.e. disassembly of a Glock), and the gun shoots because I failed to clear it, would you characterize that as proper care?

If you would not characterize that as "proper care", then you are saying it was negligent.
 
Once again, the definition of negligence is "failure to take proper care in doing something." If I don't have the intent to shoot and I do all the elements necessary to fire the gun (see a.) and it fires, would you characterize that as "proper care?"

Likewise, if I consciously press the trigger not wanting the gun to shoot (i.e. disassembly of a Glock), and the gun shoots because I failed to clear it, would you characterize that as proper care?

If you would not characterize that as "proper care", then you are saying it was negligent.
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There is no other way of spinning this. And yes, I once had a negligent discharge of a snub Colt .357. I am always baffled by this discussion. If it is unintentional, it is negligence. Of course you can call it anything you want. Won't change a thing though.
 
Thank god for Rule Two!

That's why the four fundamental rules of firearms safety are so important: Generally, you have to break at least two of them before somebody gets injured...

It's usually not considered a good idea to dry-fire a rimfire anyway, due to the possibility of damaging the chamber or firing pin.

Best way I found to store a RF is to take a piece of plastic twine from your weed wacker, run it through the chamber/barrel where the string is sticking out of the chamber and muzzle where anyone can easily see the gun is safe. The drop the slide on the string.
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I've heard zip-ties work well, also.

Finally, I think the "unintentional" vs. "accidental" vs. "negligent" debate is purely semantic...whatever.
 
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Jim567, I personally don't care what term you used. I'm glad everything ended up ok. I think we can all learn from this. It can happen to anybody because God is the only perfect. When I'm unloading, I probably check for empty chamber 3 or 4 times in good light before I lower the hammer on my 1911's. My striker fires are the same way. The only time I unload is when I'm cleaning so I do it at my reloading bench and use a flashlight to shine in the chamber. When I pull the trigger I'm always pointing it at a 5-gallon bucket of course sand just in case.
 
At least you weren't wasted on PBR and blew a hole through your neighbor's wall with a full power .357 magnum... not that I would know anything about that! :o
 
Jim567,

Thanks for being brave enough to share your learning moment with us. Harsh wake up call for sure.

As you've already figured out, just looking at the chamber doesn't do much good if we can't see what's there. Bad light, lack of glasses, even just not really expecting to see anything can all take their toll.

That's one of the reasons I advocate check by sight and feel as a habit -- even in good lighting, even when we think we can see quite well. Building it in as a habit can carry us through the times when our eyes (or brain's visual processing center) don't work as well as we expect them to.

To do this, if you'd like to incorporate it into your habits in future, every single time you unload the gun for any reason whatsoever, do it this way:

1) Remove the magazine.

2) Rack the slide to eject anything in the chamber.

3) Lock the action open.

4) Look into the chamber. Specifically, look for an empty hole at the top of the feed ramp. (Do not look for brass, as it might look different than what you expect. Look for the empty hole.)

5) Look down the magazine well. Again, don't look for a magazine. Look for daylight or your own hand at the bottom of the well.

6) Feel the chamber. Specifically, feel for the empty hole to be sure it's really there. Use a pinkie finger to get in there if you need to.

7) Feel the magazine well. Stick one finger up into the mag well to be sure there's no magazine hiding there.

8) Close the action and either store the gun, or (with a truly safe direction that would DEFINITELY stop a bullet) use it for dry fire.

Hope this helps. Glad you're okay and hope that your ears and nerves enjoy a quick recovery. :)

pax
 
I still have my own incidents burned indelibly in my brain.I'm 64.While I was in High School,I went antelope hunting.I killed my first big game animal.Now,understand,I did not have The Old Man in my life.I was pretty much self taught.Among friends.And friends seldom do the hard,focused mentoring.
My antelope was down,and quite deceased.The 7mm Rem Mag left an exit wound the size of a football.But I did not know that.Quivering with adrenaline,I approached the animal,round chambered,off safe,prepared for a zombie antelope to leap from the ground...etc.

Satisfied it was done,I set the rifle down and went to work.A helicopter was hovering over us,adding to the distraction.My partner went and got his car.We loaded the antelope in the trunk.The rifle was laid on the back seat.We drove home.Preparing to hang the antelope in the garage,I handed the rifle to my younger brother,maybe 12 yrs,and asked him to take it in the house.

He made about 10 steps and that little voice said "WRONG!!! " I said "Wait,come back"

I will never forget seeing,when I pulled the bolt back for the "ritual" of clearing the chamber,,that loaded 7 mm Rem mag cartridge spinning an arc through the air,the bullet sticking in the ground,cartridge vertical.

I had just witnessed the horrific wound channel in the antelope. I fully realized what just occurred.I handed my 12 yr old brother a loaded rifle.It was off safe.

That was about 47 yrs ago. Spare me the lectures.It sunk in.

And I remain humble enough to know "It can happen to ANY of us,if we slip up."So remain conscious. Each time.

I think,also,that it CAN occur,that we clear so many firearms by racking the slide,it CAN easily become a ritual.It CAN be done as an unconscious,habitual act ,where we KNOW its "unloaded" and we only go through the motions to appear politically correct.We CAN be focused on speaking,or some other distraction.
All guns are always loaded.Have that in your mind every time.
 
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2) Rack the slide to eject anything in the chamber.
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That's what got me in trouble (you may have scrolled past my post about my bad experience, or aren't considering it relevant or whatever, but believe me it is quite relevant):

I was racking the slide to eject the round, but I did not obey the most important rule in all this, KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER.

As posted before, I went to rack the slide and the gun fired at that very instant.

KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER.
 
First and foremost, the OP deserves a lot of credit for sharing his learning moment with the rest of us.

1. Assume every gun is loaded.

2. Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to kill or destroy

3. Do not put your finger on the trigger until ready to fire.

When these safety rules are violated, it will not be a fun day in Mudville. They are safety rules for a reason. Be safe. Do not violate these rules.
 
I worked for a PMC for a while. All the Operations guys were ex-military or police. We never had a single accidental discharge.

Fired a lot of guys for negligent discharges though. . .
 
I worked for a PMC for a while. All the Operations guys were ex-military or police. We never had a single accidental discharge.

Fired a lot of guys for negligent discharges though. . .
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Not calling you out or anything but I'm pretty sure a true Operator would NEVER have a discharge like that... those must not have been real Operators.
 
It seems that no matter what term one uses - unintentional, accidental, negligent - someone takes exception to the choice of words.

I'm glad that no one was hurt and I appreciate you posting your experience as a warning, OP.

PAX is authoritative enough not to need my endorsement, but I agree that checking under good conditions with both sight and touch are the right way to do it. It is easy to just go through the motions rather than to really think about what you are seeing and feeling. It is a worthwhile caution to us all.
 
Let he who has not had a negligent discharge be the first to throw a rock!

Glad you were not hurt. Darn 22 LR blowback pistols don't have very robust extractors. The extractor on the things are there to keep the fired cartridge on the bolt face during extraction. Plus there is not much, if any, extractor gap for the cartridge. The rim has to be firmly seated against the barrel so there is hardly any gap for the extractor to get in front of the rim. With the lube on 22 LR's and sometimes the bullet is oversized for the chamber, it is easy to have a stuck case in the chamber, one that you have to knock out with a cleaning rod.

Older Anschutz target rifles had one extractor on the bolt face, in time, they all have two extractors, each 180 degrees from each other. The two extractors are much more positive in extraction, and this is a manually operated weapon.
 
For all my harping on the technical definition of negligence, I do want to thank the OP for having the courage to share this with all of us. Nobody who has done a lot of shooting hasn't had the surprise bullet moment. For the lucky ones among us, it is a cartridge that pops out of that firearm we were sure was unloaded. We're all human and we all make mistakes. However, because the OP had the presence of mind to exhibit good muzzle control, it was a good learning moment and not a tragedy.

Hopefully, the OP sharing this with the rest of us gives us all a moments pause and causes us to be better in our handling of weapons.
 
Measure twice, cut once !!

Any unintentional discharge of a weapon is an accidental discharge.
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Regardless, totally avoidable. If this had happened to me, I would call it being negligent among other less flattering descriptions. This can happen to anyone of us and have to admit that I have come real close. ...... :mad:

Be Safe !!!
 
If it is unintentional, it is negligence.
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Unintentional, accidental and negligent are all words that have established definitions which means that there should be no need to rehash this over and over. These threads should be focused on learning lessons from the situation, not on bickering over the meaning of words whose meaning isn't in question.

'Unintentional' and 'negligent' are NOT synonymous. They do NOT mean the same thing. They are NOT interchangeable.

For those who refuse to use dictionaries or look definitions up online, here's an explanation of the meanings of 'unintentional' and 'negligent'.

Unintentional just means that something happened even though it wasn't intended to happen. It is the opposite of intentional. It carries no negative connotation.

Negligent means that ordinary/proper care was not taken in the course of some activity. It has nothing to do with intent or lack of intent. It carries a connotation of guilt, culpability and liability.

Negligence is ONLY about whether or not proper care was taken. Negligence can occur during intentional AND unintentional actions.

Discharges can be intentional or unintentional. They can be negligent or non-negligent. One can tell the difference by using the established definitions for the terms 'negligent' and 'unintentional' and comparing those definitions to the circumstances of the discharge.

Examples​
Intentional and not negligent.
A person fires a gun at a target with a proper backstop. The person intentionally fires the gun. Since proper care is taken to insure that the bullets are stopped safely without endangering anyone, there is no negligence.

Intentional and negligent.
A person fires a gun at a paper target which is set up in such a manner that bullets passing through the target will travel towards a populated area only a very short distance away. The person intentionally fires the gun. There is negligence because proper care is not taken to insure that bullets will not endanger others.

Unintentional and not negligent.
A person chambers a round in a semi-automatic rifle which is not known to have any safety or function issues. The person is using the proper ammunition. The rifle slamfires during the process. The person is pointing the firearm at a safe backstop during the process and therefore the bullet goes in a safe direction. The gun fires unintentionally. There is no negligence because proper care is taken to insure that the discharge does not endanger anyone.

Unintentional and not negligent.
A person fires a round from a semi-automatic firearm and the sear fails unexpectedly resulting in additional rounds firing. The additional rounds are fired unintentionally but because the sear failure was unexpected and could not reasonably be foreseen, there is no negligence.

Unintentional and negligent.
A person is carrying a loaded firearm with their finger on the trigger. They trip and as they fall, their fingers reflexively tighten on the gun, firing it. The person fires the gun unintentionally. There is negligence because proper care demands that a person does not carry a loaded firearm with their finger on the trigger.

Unintentional and negligent.
A person pulls the trigger of a loaded firearm without intent to fire the gun but without properly checking to determine that the gun was unloaded. That would be unintentional because the operator did not intend to fire the gun. It would also be negligent because ordinary/proper care demands that the gun be properly checked before dryfiring.

Unintentional -- possibly negligent or not negligent depending on circumstances.
A part (or parts) in the gun fail and the gun discharges as a result. That would certainly be unintentional. It wouldn't be negligent unless ordinary care would have discovered the parts failure before it caused the discharge. If ordinary/proper care couldn't reasonably be expected to discover the parts failure prior to the unintentional discharge then the discharge would be unintentional and non-negligent. If ordinary/proper care SHOULD have discovered the parts failure prior to the unintentional discharge then the discharge would be unintentional and negligent.

Unintentional -- possibly negligent or not negligent depending on circumstances.
A person holsters the firearm in a holster which has failed in such a manner that part of the holster can operate the trigger during the holstering process--and the gun fires during holstering. That is unintentional because the person had no intent to fire the gun. If ordinary/proper care would have noted the holster failure prior to reholstering then it would be negligent as well as unintentional. If ordinary/proper care couldn't be expected to note the holster failure then it would still be unintentional but it would not be negligent.
 
Jim,

I have a bag of sand in the garage JUST TO PULL THE TRIGGER of my Glocks before disassembly.

Just get something that stops bullets with no chance of ricochet and use it every time you have to do such.

Deaf
 
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