Need some serious advice

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Out of your choices, I'd stick with Sig and HK. In my opinion, they are far superior to Taurus and even Beretta. While I like Beretta shotguns, I don't care much for their pistols compared to HK or Sig.
+1. The only Beretta handgun I really like is the 92FS, which is too big and heavy for CCW IMHO.

Before choosing a Taurus, do an advanced search for the word "Taurus" and the words "warranty" or "service". I don't mean to hijack this thread, but they have a reputation for spotty quality control, and their service department is notorious for taking a loooong time to process warranty returns.
Think "concealed" carry. That means that the 12 round .45 probably doesn't fit the bill. There are some compact .45's out there, but I'd probably look at a .40 or 9mm that is compact enough to carry easily. Like others have said, for carry, it's hard to beat a glock 19.
+1. Also consider the Springfield XD and S&W M&P lineups. Both are top-notch, but I like the M&Ps better for CCW because they have more comfy grips IMHO and the compact models are available in more configurations.
BTW whats LEO's? authority im guessing
You guessed correctly- Law Enforcement Officer :)
 
Damn, im liking the Glock 19 pistolen

Calibre: 9 mm Para
Trigger Action: Safe Action
Magazine Capacity: 15 rounds ...Can i get a custom 20 clip?
Locking Mechanism: Browning-Petter system
Weight: 665g
Length: 174mm
Height: 127mm
Breedte: 30mm
Barrel length: 102mm
trigger stop: no
Sights: adjustable
Sight Radius: 152mm
External Safety: none
Internal Safety: Slide Safety, trigger safety, firing pin safety, drop safety (trigger bar is always blocked, unless the trigger is completely pulled)

Features:
slide catch: on both side of frame
magazine catch: on left side frame
material: steel-reinforced high-impact polymer frame, steel slide
finish: matt tenifer coating
grips: integral black composition frame

Service handgun
Parcours
target shooting


Yep i found me a new women, thanks to yall
 
First off one good place to get your carry permit class done for relatively cheap email this guy and let him know that you are interested in signing up for a carry permit class. strom56@msn.com (he is located in MN)

As far as what to carry... I am a little concerned that it seems like nobody has heard of Springfield LOL!!!! I would recommend maybe and XD9, XD40, or XD45 depending on your preference. You can get any of these in a compact model for under $600 all day. I carry and XD9 because when it comes right down to it 9mm will still kill someone without a doubt. I carry a full size which effectively gives me 17 shots to take care of business.

to further explain MN state laws is there is no CONCEAL CARRY law... it is just a carry law meaning we can conceal or open carry... our choice. Open carry freaks some people out a bit but I hope some day everyone who has a permit will open carry so that the bad guys get used to us being there waiting... and so the people opposed can see just how many of us are out there and so they understand this is not just like the wild west all over again as many predicted it would be.

also as previously stated if you are not wiling ot take the life of a bad guy to PREVENT death of a good guy then don't carry. It's that simple. First you never know if a shot to the knees or something will kill the guy because for you know he will bleed out or die from and infection or whatever. 2nd, either kill him or get sued and more than likely lose thus causing you a huge financial burden for the rest of your life and beyond. Every time you pull the trigger there is a lawyer attached to the bullet. Now much like the movies it is best you kill the star witness which is the guy you are shooting in the first place. Right or wrong shooting someone is going to get you in some trouble. Be prepared to keep your mouth shut and get a lawyer.
 
MNResident said:
Oh man, ty tomgun.

I feel so much better that were a castle doctorine as well, but i would never take a life. I would most likely render them defensless via shot to the limbs, and call authority.

Serious advice. You might want to change your thinking. In a true self defense situation you will have about 5 seconds to neutralize the threat. You must be prepared to draw and just plain shoot center mass - which means above the belt, below the neck, as near centerline as possible. When the real SHTF you need to be mentally prepared to do that. If you don't the chances are you are going to **** off whomever you are attempting to shoot, they will take your gun from you and shoot you with it and they won't be aiming at limbs.

I have 26 years of military training including protecting top secret assets on public highways and the ONLY way the Navy trains for handgun self defense is draw and double tap center mass within 4 seconds. Only if center mass fails to stop the threat, then attempt the head shot.

I'm hate to burst your bubble, but that's the way it really is.
 
I would never risk getting shot or shooting someone over 3 or 4 pizzas, $40.00, $60.00, $80.00 or a $100.00, specially when it belongs to Domino's Pizza AND your not even required to do so. Your job is to deliver and collect. Comply and you will be fine hopefully. What you have to do is be alert and recognize the threat before you are mugged.

Be safe.
 
MNResident

Need some serious advice

I am assuming that you know almost nothing about handguns, the laws which may effect your owning, possessing, carrying, when you may shoot a firearm in self-defense, ammunition selection, combat mindset, situational awareness, defensive shooting skills, cleaning and storing of a handgun.

First, my advice is to get some education in the laws which may apply to your situation.

Second, get some training in the proper mental attitude, situational awareness and physical skills you will need in the event that you find yourself in a situation which requires you to use deadly force to defend your life.

The NRA offers course which may interest you. http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

Only after gaining knowledge and some skills, buy a firearm; because after gaining knowledge you will be able to make a more informed decision about which pistol suits your needs.

Keep looking for a better job too.
 
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Nothing personal, but you have no business carrying a firearm given the posts here.

Carrying is a huge responsibility and takes a great deal of forethought. One item that requires thought and decisiveness is determining your "line in the sand" is where you will return force with deadly force. You do not carry to "wing someone". You do not carry simply to stop someone from stealing your stuff. You carry to protect yourself from serious harm or injury. If you do not feel you are in serious jeopardy, you do not draw. If you do feel you are in serious jeopardy, you draw your sidearm to stop the threat. Sometimes the act of drawing will stop the threat. But if you expect that to be the case, you will be very poorly prepared when you are threatened, draw and realize then "oh sh@t", now what. That is not the time to be calculating your next step.

Do as others suggest. Get some serious training. Not just an NRA gun-handling course but serious defensive firearm training. Let that help define your thought process and then decide if you have it in you to carry and defend yourself.
 
Why accept a job where you know you will have to go against company policy from the first instant you're on the payroll. Just asking for to be fired. Your safety is your own responsibility and that includes going to work for a short-sighted employer that will not defend your life much less your rights. Find a company that considers you a person, not just a disposable asset. JMO
Bill
 
MN Resident,
I'm going to pile on here with something I've posted before but which I think is very relevant to your questions.
I realize we're not talking about you having a "scary event" but since you are considering a firearm for self defense the points are still valid.

I had a scary incident now I want a gun to protect myself (the harsh truth about self defense weapons)

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've had this conversation with someone who has had a bad experience and in the ensuing emotional turmoil jumps to "I'm going to get a gun" as a solution.

Unfortunately most folks who do this are in such a place that emotions are in charge and logical thinking is more or less on hold. As a result there is a strong tendency to treat firearms like a magic wand, wave it and the problem will go away. Unfortunately, Hollywood and television reinforce this type of thinking and downplay, or outright ignore, that firearms are tools and require a full range of commitment if they are to be of any use at all for self defense.

If one chooses to own a firearm for self defense then one must also accept the responsibility to train in both the use and safety aspects of that firearm. If they don't want to do that then firearms are NOT the answer for that person. Perhaps an even larger issue is that someone deciding to have a firearm for self defense MUST accept the fact that they may have to use it to KILL someone. This certainly isn't the desired outcome but it is a definite possibility when one chooses a lethal weapon for self defense. Again, if one cannot accept that fact (maybe thinking “oh it’ll scare the bad guy off and I’ll never actually have to use it) then, again, firearms are NOT the answer for that person and they should find a different solution.

The following points are excerpted from an online discussion where someone had just been through an upsetting incident and was considering getting a gun. This was my reply.

Dear XXX,

No offense intended but right now you are probably having a reaction to events. Completely understandable but please try to make sure you have a little "distance" between yourself and events before you proceed. Decisions regarding firearms MUST be made in as calm and rational a manner as is possible.

The decision to own a firearm is a big responsibility, especially if you intend to carry for self-defense, and even in Virginia that decision carries a bit of a social stigma. Be prepared for the inevitable issues that will arise and be informed as to how to counter (or walk away from) the typical illogic that the anti-gun crowd attacks with. There are threads all over [the website] about this. At some point you will be challenged and you will have an absolute duty to remain calm, logical, and non-confrontational so that you can deal appropriately with those sorts of encounters. It is a good idea to get educated about firearms ownership issues long before you buy your first gun!

Also, owning a firearm isn't just buying a gun, shooting it a few times, and storing it in a drawer or glove box. Firearms ownership is a larger commitment to learning firearms safety and sticking with it (even if/when others roll their eyes about it).

If you intend to have the firearm as a SELF DEFENSE tool that adds another entire dimension to the responsibility. It also means committing yourself to TRAINING so that you know how to use a firearm under stress and UNDERSTANDING THE LAW so that you don’t defend yourself just to wind up with life in prison. If you aren't up to learning “the full Monty” then pick a different method of defense because firearms are not a magic wand and without proper training can be worse than useless.

Now it may sound like I'm trying to talk you out of owning firearms for self defense. Not so at all, I just prefer that people understand the big picture before they get a ways down the road.”
 
Oh man, ty tomgun.

I feel so much better that were a castle doctorine as well, but i would never take a life. I would most likely render them defensless via shot to the limbs, and call authority.

If someone is trying to kill you, your survival instincts will react before you will have time to think about which limb you want to shoot. Besides this is a moving target. You always aim for the center of whatever it is you want to hit.. you will always have a better accuracy if you shoot this way. If you aim for the head your taking a risk in missing.. let alone a limb.. you might actually hit that persons groin as well.

I also am in your position as I deliver bread I start usually around 3am and finish around 11am-12pm. Cops will tell you.. almost all crimes that are commited at night are between 2-4am.. (drunk people get angry when you stop letting them drink) thats when they start causing mischief, and or they have to weave in out of the lane their driving in till they get home.

I think personally you should get what you think you need. Have you shot a g un before? How big are you? If your going to be a tree hugger I would suggest getting some pepper spray. If you are serious about defending yourself I would suggest reading a lot before you buy.
 
Thanks to all.

I know some of you think my self-defense mentallity is horrid, but this is how i see it in further detail.

If someone is posing a threat of bodily harm (knife/blunt object/ect...) i will immobilize them via lower center point(ofcourse i will notify them if they come any closer i will shoot). If they are a threat to mine or another 'life' with a gun, i will definitely choose upper center point, chest and up.

I see a huge difference between a morale self-defense action and a Castle Doctorine State Law.

Btw, to awnser above post, im 6' n 2" 200 lbs.

Im guessing 1.4 lb glock wont be a big problem shooting a moving target.
 
Strength will help you control recoil...

... but practice is what will help you hit a moving target.

A high percentage of people I see at the range have trouble hitting the vitals of static, paper targets. How do you suppose they'd do on a dynamic, threatening target?

For the level of expertise you are professing, MN, which is effectively none - you said you were a newbie, you seem to think you'll outshoot people who actually practice.

FWIW, I'm rated Expert by Navy and Army standards on the M9, and the Navy on the M11; if we were still using the 1911 I'd qualify Expert on that too. Even so, I wouldn't try for kneecaps or other non-lethal shots on a human. If I miss Center of Mass (COM) by a few inches, I might get lung, trachea, liver, kidney, stomach, or intestine hits on my intended target. OTOH, if I miss the knee by a few inches, I most likely will miss entirely - now where are those rounds going?

As far as leg shots being "less lethal", I could miss a few inches high and still take out the femoral artery, so the leg shots DO pose a significant risk of death, while offering significantly reduced odds of hitting the target and stopping the threat.

Note that if you don't think the situation justifies taking a life, then you are probably not justified in shooting at all.

You really need to do some reading, take a class or two, and put in some range time; after doing that, I think you'll find that the arguments you offer make no sense in the real world.
 
Take some classes,get the right training,do every thing you can to get ready before you buy a gun.If you still want to buy a gun after all that.I have carried a lot of nice guns,and do business with mark at this site. www.summitgunbroker.com you will find anything you want and more there for a good price.

Remember another little known tip,if you don't want to take the time to get extra training in care and maintance with semi-auto's then stick with a revolver.I still carry my S&W 686 4 inch and even a little Rossi snubnose from time to time.

If you are insistant on a semi then look to the glock 17/22,S&W 5000 series,ruger p series,sig pro series.You can get anyone of these guns for $500.00 or less.
 
Note that if you don't think the situation justifies taking a life, then you are probably not justified in shooting at all.

Exactly. It's called "deadly force" for a reason. You are either justified in using it or you are not.

Many police officers cannot hit COM (perhaps 24" wide) reliably in the heat of battle. A knee is maybe 3" wide. Think you can hit that?

You need to consciously make the decision today that your life is worth every bit as much as that of the "poor, disadvantaged, misguided youth" who, in turn, values your life at approximately nothing. If you have not/cannot/will not do that, the rest is meaningless.

Please think long and hard on this. Plenty of material is available for your study.
 
As pointed out, if you do not believe deadly force is the only option and that it's immediately necessary to resolve the situation then you have no business (and no legal justification for) shooting a person. Shooting a person (regardless of what part of them you aim at) is deadly force.

The point isn't that you should be trying to kill your assailant but rather that you SHOULDN'T shoot until the situation is critical enough that you're willing to accept your assailant's death as a potential outcome.
 
So if i shot someone w/ a 6 mm Flobert, thats considered deadly force?

Well if thats the case, maybe i should buy me a 1,500 velocity pellet gun instead.

Or how bout a c02 compressed walking stick that has a rubber bullet, ill aim for there eye socket.


But seriously, minnesota doesn't have a death penalty but yet there a castle doctorine state w/ no CCW standards. I find that to be a huge conspiracy theory.

It's lile saying, hey citizens of MN. Make sure to round the bad guys up and kill'em because we cant.

Now thats some really Wild West **** right there.

But Seriously stop thinking im failing to realize certain procedures that must be carried out in a life or death situation.

If i ever get a gun, trust me i will train my ass off and i will obtain it legally.

I'll makr sure of it that my gun will be shown in the dictionary under the word Punitive.

Don't look at me as an ******* for what this post contains but see me as a proceduraly corrected individual in a moral state of forgiveness.
 
You asked for serious advice

Many of the above replies contain good solid serious advice.

Yet, you continue in your most recent post with argumentation and with:
But Seriously stop thinking im failing to realize certain procedures that must be carried out in a life or death situation.

I would recommend that if it is serious advice that you are looking for, that you stop for a moment and consider that you have been given some good serious advice.

In the Gravest Extreme by Mas Ayoob would be a really good place for you to do some additional reading.
 
I have about 10 different fighting style self defense books for close combat. I for one favour the Dirty Dozen.

But i have no clue w/ guns but i can take what i know from all those books and transfer them to a scenario where im the one holding the deadly force.

Yes, i will truly kill someone if the pose a serious threat, but if they have a knife/tazer/bat ill order them to get on the floor so they can be dealt w/ a lesser punishment Aka LEO's & Court.
 
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