Need help choosing a conceal carry weapon

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gunson

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Hi, I am new to this forum and I want to get as much input and advice possible before I purchase a gun. This is my first gun and I am buying it for conceal and protection purposes due to the nature of my business. After speaking to a few of my gun loving buddies they advised I go for a 45 caliber 1911.

After doing some research I am leaning towards a Kimber Super Carry Pro or a Kimber CDP Pro II. These are both 4 inch barrels I believe that they would be ideal in weight and size to conceal. Since I have zero knowledge about firearms I wanted to ask the experts here if you think this is an ideal gun for CC or do you think there are other brands I should be looking at? Any constructive advice is really appreciated.

If I end up getting the Kimber then I was told by the dealer that I will most likely wait 6 months for the gun to arrive. So for a temporary solution I was going to buy the S&W Bodyguard 380. Advice on this idea would be appreciated as well.
 
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choosing a handgun for CCW

Your friends may be enthusiastic gun owners, but their advice may not be particularly useful to you at this point in your shooting career . . .

The M1911 pattern pistol is designed to be carried in condition three "cocked and locked" with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked and the thumb safety on.

With proper holster selection, in the hands of a trained operator, this is a safe thing to do. That being said, it takes some practice and familiarity with the mechanics of the M1911 pattern pistol to do so safely. So it may not be the best choice for a brand new gun owner.

Also, the smaller .45s tend to recoil more and be more difficult to shoot, and the ammunition is expensive. If you're new to shooting, what you need to do is shoot on a frequent basis to develop and maintain basic skills. A gun using ammo that's cheaper and that has less recoil makes that easier to do.

(Now mind you I have a Colt Combat Commander that I bought in 1978 and shoot often, and carried as a duty gun as a cop for 6-1/2 years, so I've got some familiarity with those guns. I was also an MP in the ARNG for a while in the late 1980s, and we carried M1911A1s then, though in condition one, hammer down on an empty chamber)

You might want to consider something else as a first handgun, with a goal of getting a Kimber or Springfield Armory SA auto pistol later.

You also have to consider what size of gun you will be able to conceal, and what holsters you'll have to buy to do so and what changes in the way that you dress will have to be made to conceal a gun.

It would help if you could shoot a variety of guns over the next little bit, just to see what might work best for you. Everything from an S&W Chief Special .38 revolver to a Glock 19 or 26 or Smith & Wesson Military & Police pistol, or one of the Kahr pistols. (I have a G19, and a few Chief Specials, and a Kahr P9 and K9 and a Walther PPK and Sig 230. I carry the Chief Special and the Kahr pistols the most off duty)

One of the cops I work with has a S&W .380 Bodyguard. I've shot it a few times. It's little and the sights are little. I have big hands and long fingers so I perfer something bigger, but he has small hands and likes that gun just fine. (He just ordered XS sights for it because the factory sights are so small)

One thing to consider about a concealment gun is not only length and height but width. I personally like the Kahr pistols better than the "baby Glocks" (G26 or G27) because the grip is a little longer but the whole platform is thinner. It fits MY hand better and I find it easier to conceal because it's thin. YMMV.
 
yeah, 1911's are bad ass, but.... for a conceal and carry? and don't get me wrong, there are tons of people, even on here who conceal them with no issues, but, they are huge guns, especially if you get the "real" ones with the 6" barrel.

I think your friend who advised you to get one for conceal and carry has watched too many cop movies.

Personally, i'm not a huge guy, i'm 6' 190, and it's hard for me to conceal a 1911.

The gun i like to carry the most is my Ruger LCP380.. If it's winter (like it is now) and i have my coat on, i'll conceal a 1911, or a 9mm, but in the summer, i like to keep my LCP in my pocket. it's not heavy or overbearing and depending where you put it, doesn't leave a print, etc..

Granted, it's only a 380, but, it'll definitely do the job if needed. Bullet size is NOT (contrary to popular belief) equal to p3n!s size. a 380 will deliver a lethal blow at any reasonable distance.

However, there are sub compact 9mm's that i like quite a bit too like the Kel-Tec PF9. It's only slightly larger than the LCP380. also a great CHL gun, and very reliable.

but seriously, of all the guns i own, my LCP380 is my favorite on just about every level. i love that gun.

WITH THAT SAID.. in regards to caliber size, 380 is the absolute lowest i would ever go. If you're going to carry a 22, you may as well be concealing a slingshot. If you get some 300 pound muscular guy hopped up on crack trying to mug you at 3am in a dark alley, a 22 is just going to ssip him off.. a 380 with Gold Dot will neutralize him at any distance deemed legal in your jurisdiction for the reasons of self defense.
 
Be aware that reliability is a very important aspect of a self-defense gun. You need to make sure the 1911 you choose runs well with defensive ammunition.

There are guys that will swear up and down that the 1911 is reliable out of the box. I'm sure they've had good experiences with them. I have not and am two for six. Both good guns were from Colt. One was a Colt XSE and the other was a Colt WW I Reproduction (that loved JHP ammo). My Springfield Armory (SA) EMP 9x19mm required two trips to the factory for repair. My SA Compact was a complete dud. I had two Kimber Tactical Ultra II's...COMPLETE CRUD! SA Loaded...also failed in various ways. My SA Champion Operator needed a trip to the factory, but was fine after they tuned it properly.

Rather than a 1911, I recommend you just get a Glock 19 (or equivalent from HK, S&W, etc), add night sights, buy 6 magazines, get a good belt from Comp-Tac (1.25" if you dress up, 1.5" otherwise), one IWB holster, one OWB holster, and two single magazine carriers.

You'll find the S&W M&P 45 Compact to be very concealable and you get the 8+1 capacity of the 1911 in a Glock 19 sized package.

If you want something really discreet, but not a pocket pistol (which are difficult to shoot), look at the Glock 26 (or equivalent from S&W, HK, etc).

I highly recommend you avoid Kimber. Their customer service is terrible and they did a very poor job on those Ultras. I will never support a company whose employees break promises.
 
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If you're going to carry a 22, you may as well be concealing a slingshot. If you get some 300 pound muscular guy hopped up on crack trying to mug you at 3am in a dark alley, a 22 is just going to ssip him off.. a 380 with Gold Dot will neutralize him at any distance deemed legal in your jurisdiction for the reasons of self defense.
Click to expand...

To the OP, please do NOT listen to this "advice". :rolleyes:
 
Although I have had nothing but good guns with my Kimbers and great service the 2 times I needed repairs I would also not recommend them as a first gun.

Some great suggestions (other than dropping down to 380) IMO so go with those 9mm choices.
 
Just a thought on gun-loving buddies - they will recommend what THEY like and not what might be best for a new shooter looking to carry concealed.

Good points on 1911's - many are completely unreliable out of the box, even the high-end ones.

I've been carrying concealed for several years now and I've found that the process is an evolution until you reach the optimum combination of firearm, holster, and position. For me that has become a G23 .40 with a Cobra belt holster.
 
I agree with most of the posts above, and just would like to add this. I am new to CC as well, have shot guns for years, but purchased my first handgun this fall. One thing I have found is as you start to CC, your opinions will most likely change as to what is ideal for you. My recommendation for starting out is look for something reliable, but on the less expensive side (consider used?). Get your CPL and start carrying it. Once you do you will start to realize what is more "ideal" for your situation. You want something that you will carry as much as allowed (by law), not something that makes you think, "great I have to put that on again".

And like others have mentioned you will eventually have different guns for different seasons. It's a lot easier to conceal a larger frame gun in the winter as opposed to summer.

There is a lot of good information out there, just take time and digest it and figure out what is best for you. Just my $.02…..

-Ryan
 
If your primary purpose for this gun is concealed carry, size and concealability should be your first consideration. While I have a great 1911 that is an absolute tack driver, there is no way I could easily conceal it with what I normally wear. What part of the country are you in? What kind of work do you do? If you sit a lot, then small of back holsters are very uncomfortable.

For me, the most important issue came down to size. I carry a Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster. It holds 6 rounds of 9mm plus one in the chamber. It has a long smooth trigger that is similar to a double action only, but the trigger pull is pretty light. I used to carry a Glock 26, but it is too large to pocket carry unless you have some huge pockets.

When you deal with these small guns, you have to consider a few factors. Does it fit your hand properly and can you control the recoil for the round you're firing. If you have big hands, these little pocket guns are hard to handle. The other thing is the light weight and small size make more powerful cartridges hard to handle. I got the PM9 as a good compromise and carry +P (more powerful loads) ammo. I shot a Glock 27 (.40 S&W) and I didn't like the recoil so I went with the Glock 26. The Kahr PM9 is even smaller with slimmer grips, so I feel the PM40 would be even harder to handle. I see no need to drop down to .380 when you can carry a 9mm for almost the same size. Rather than start a caliber war here, I'll just say carry the most powerful round you can shoot well and control.

Good luck!
 
My suggestion would also be to look into a Kahr 9mm CM9, or PM9, depending on what feels best. If you must go .45, then they also make a CM45, for example.

I also would not recommend a 1911 as a first pistol for CCW. The .380 is not enough of a pistol, IMHO. Get at least a .38 revolver.

The Kahr guns are thin, light, and still pack plenty of punch. There is also the Glock 36 to consider, or the Smith&Wesson M&P 9c 9mm compact.

One last thing to try, just to humor me.... ask if someone in the store will let you hold and dry-fire a Ruger LCR in .38. Just try it. Trust me. A .38 loaded with +P ammo such as by Speer Gold Dot is plenty to get the job done within the distances you'd likely encounter a problem. It's easy to hide, extremely light, quick to bring out, and quick/comfortable to fire easily. Practice, as with any weapon, is important, but in your job you'll likely face a situation where the fight takes place in distances measured in feet rather than yards. Statistical fact.

#1 All-time concealed carry mistake made by gun owners: Getting something tooo big. It happens to many of us (some of us more than once). And I'm not ashamed to admit it, either. Just trying to save you money.

Also, extremely important, a good quality GUN belt and holster. A gun is part of a system. Only part of it. That system includes a gun belt, quality holster, and proven ammo (like Speer Gold Dots). Skimp on one, and you are handicapping yourself.

Excellent holster/belt-makers include (no particular order):

1. www.tuckergunleather.com
2. www.miltsparks.com (may take too long)
3. www.crossbreedholsters.com
4. www.comp-tac.com

That's just naming a few. The Beltman (search google) is another great belt-maker. Forget about anything Walmart in a belt. You need a GUN belt.
 
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My 4 1/2 inch 1911PD smith and wesson with its light scandium frame isnt that hard to handle at all. I havent shot +P through but dont want to. I do also have a 642 j frame for summer carry but I cant hardly hit anything past 7 yards with it. My next purchase will be a Kahr 9mm hopefully for all around comfortable carry. Usually for long trips to see the folks. I would recommend anyone one of the three but put the 1911 on hold until until you get more practice. Another option would be to buy a cheaper one. Although not as tight fit as its higher priced cousins, the Rock Island Armory is about $450 and pretty acturate. Good luck in your purchases, just get whatever fits right, and dont go any smaller than 9mm.
 
I can only speak in terms of competition, not carrying, because I am in CA...

But one thing I tell everyone who wants to compete is that you must consider the entirety of your investment. You have to consider the cost of the firearm + accessories (magazine, belt, holster, etc.) + expendables (ammunition, cleaning supplies) + training.

That being said, you should get a DA/SA, DAO, or "Safe Action" pistol, unless you have extra time to train and practice.

1911s require more attention in training and servicing than the types of pistols listed above.

i.e. if you want to carry it, you must train with it, if you want to train with it, you must maintain it, so on and so forth.

While the above statement holds true for ALL types of firearms, it is especially emphasized for 1911s.

The seasoned (but casual) IDPA shooters in my area started with 1911s but eventually transferred to the Glock...mainly because they didn't want to clean it every 3~4 months (150 rounds per match, 2 matches per month, additional practice outside of shoots). Cleaning per ~1600 rounds in order to insure reliability is more than reasonable, but sometimes you just don't want to...

Anyway, your total cost + time involved in developing proficiency with the firearm of your choice would look something like this:

Glock $600 + 2 magazines $40 + holster $60 + mag holder $50 + belt $50 + ammunition ~$400

CCW course + professional training + practice on your own


Consider the above before you buy anything.
 
If I end up getting the Kimber then I was told by the dealer that I will most likely wait 6 months for the gun to arrive.
Click to expand...

Find another dealer or buy one online if your set on a Kimber. I have nothing against .45 acp, but why not a .40 cal or a 9mm? You may find the learning curve a bit easier with a .40 or 9mm.
If I was going to carry a 1911, I'd be looking at STI, Colt or Dan Wesson.

just my .02
 
My 2 Cents.
Like most above I would not start with a 1911.

You are looking for a first Concealed Carry handgun. I recommend the LCR 38 with XS Tritium front night sight. Here is the why part. It is small, and light weight. Both very important features for a concealed carry handgun. The XS 24/7 Tritium front sight will help you get on target in low light. The LCR 38 has a very good factory trigger, which makes it easier to shoot. It also comes standard with Houge Tamer grips. The tamers take the bite out of 38 loads. Next a new shooter is better off with a revolver. It is easier to operate for new shooters, and people who are not real gun friendly.
With an Airweight J Frame size revolver you have the option of belt carry, as well as pocket carry. You can normally find a way to carry this gun 24/7-365, something that cannot be said for some larger guns.

Then we have another nice thing. They make the LCR in a 22LR version. For another $400 you can have a cheap to shoot companion practice revolver set up exactly like your 38, that does not recoil at all.


If you decide that an LCR 38 and a companion LCR 22 is the way to go.
I would not have a problem recommending picking up the LCR 22 first. The 22LR would be better to get in quality trigger time with to start with, then get the LCR 38 or even LCR 357 next.

The LCR 22 holds 8 rounds. While not the prefered self defense round, the 22 properly loaded with Stingers or Velocitors is still way better than nothing.
Like was said above, you can get deadly accurate with a 22. It is not a bad first gun at all.
Another thing, your LCR 38 holster will work with the LCR 22.

Tuff Products make a 22 Quick Strip for spare ammo also. It is the model 1022. I recommend ordering it in Orange so you can find it on the ground when practicing field reloads. Load it in pairs, leaving a round out between pairs for cylinder clearance loading 2 at a time.

By the way I have a great Custom Colt 1911 XSE. I also have the LCR 357 and the LCR 22, and a S&W 638. I am retired and at the moment I am carrying my 310 Night Guard the most. I still switch back to the 638 or LCR when I need a smaller handgun to carry. I carry almost every day, so I have a fair amount of experiance at it.

If you are planning to carry it on your person almost every day, you can carry an Airweight J Frame size revolver almost everywhere, year round. That includes the LCR. If you get something big and heavy, you will either end up leaving it in the car, or at home.

Start with a small light weight revolver, after you get comfortable and experianced in concealed carry, you can always get a larger handgun if you decide one is needed.

Bob
 
First carry gun? I would not recommend a 1911.

You have plenty of really good carry options that will be better suited for a first time owner.

IMO a DA/SA would be good for a first timer, with a little experience move into a 1911. It is your $$$ and your gun so do what is comfortable to you.

Another of my opinions is start with and master the 9mm first. It is cheaper to practice and learn with than the 45 acp.
 
By now you are probably pretty confused about what to carry. What it boils down to is try as many guns as you can. Buy whatever you want with the idea that it won't be the final answer.
 
.22s for practice

Good suggestion Viper 225!

I have .22 conversion units for most of my handguns and for my AR-15.

I also have a S&W 18 to go with my model 15, and a S&W 650 to match all my 3 inch chief specials.

I do almost all of my routine skill maintenance practice with the .22, shooting on reduced targets. With the little guns (S&W 650 and Walther PPK/S in .22) it's at 7 & 10 yards (mostly) and with the bigger ones it's at 15 yards.
 
Two more cents worth:

You have asked for recommendations for a carry handgun for a new handgun shooter. This isn't one question, it is two questions. In my opinion:

1) No one should carry any handgun until he has acquired some handgun expertise.

2) You will not acquire the skill set you need if you start with a .45 (or any center fire).

3) The best (if not the only) way to acquire handgun skills is to acquire a .22 (pistol or revolver) and some time with a good instructor, followed by about 5,000 rounds or more of dedicated practice.

4) Those who have said that the "best" carry handgun varies with the carrier are correct. Along the way in Step #3, you can acquire (by experimentation with borrowed or instructors' guns) some familiarity with some of the options: big auto, small auto, medium or small revolver.

5) If for lack of time, interest, funding or any other reason, you need to go immediately to a carry handgun, get a J-Frame Smith & Wesson in .38 special and load it with (comparatively) light loads.

Good luck.
 
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