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Need feedback on cheap SxS Shotguns
- Thread starter XtremeRevolution
- Start date
Blindstitch
New member
Nice 311. $200 sounds about right.
turkeestalker
New member
These guys are right about an old Stevens 311, but bone up on used doubles before you buy one and learn what to look for because everything wears out. I'll admit that I own a Stoeger coach gun in 12 gauge, picked it up used for $200 from a local pawn shop. It is a hammerless double trigger, nothing fancy obviously from the name but it's tight and it shoots without any issues. I've had it out with my sons for kicks when we're shooting clays and it's a hoot. Modified and Improved I believe and as far as barrel regulation I don't even think my 15 year old has missed a clay with it, that would mean it's where it needs to be. I just don't advise pulling both triggers with 3 inch shells in it unless you want a bloody ring finger knuckle where the trigger guard kisses it. My only complaint is that silly auto safety feature when you break the action open to reload, it's annoying but I bet that could be disabled easily. I found a lace on leather shell holder with a split leather cheek pad and six shot capacity that actually makes it look pretty neat and handy as a garage/house gun.
If you want one buy it using the guidelines you've already stated here and don't give a second thought to what anyone else thinks about it. It may pan out just fine for you, or you may have what you can call a learning experience, after all that is how we learn.
If you want one buy it using the guidelines you've already stated here and don't give a second thought to what anyone else thinks about it. It may pan out just fine for you, or you may have what you can call a learning experience, after all that is how we learn.
XtremeRevolution
New member
Went shooting yesterday and checked out their selection. They had a stoeger coach supreme in the exact configuration I want except it was a single trigger, so I wasn't going to buy it. Played around with it some. Exactly what I expected. I opened the action, disassembled it. Needs some polishing at the lugs as the action was stiff. Snapped it to my shoulder and looked down the sights. Did the same with a used itasca and a used cz they had there.
The stoeger was the only one that sighted perfectly the moment I brought it to my shoulder. I had to cock my neck harder for the other two, and the stocks were much thinner and felt like they were made for someone with smaller hands than mine. Very well balanced.
I'm going to get one in the next few months.
The stoeger was the only one that sighted perfectly the moment I brought it to my shoulder. I had to cock my neck harder for the other two, and the stocks were much thinner and felt like they were made for someone with smaller hands than mine. Very well balanced.
I'm going to get one in the next few months.
I opened the action, disassembled it. Needs some polishing at the lugs as the action was stiff. Snapped it to my shoulder and looked down the sights.
That will smooth up with use - don't go taking a Dremel or similar to it - take just a tad TOO much and you've ruined the gun. Those measurements are done in .001 increments if not .0001.
Don't look at the sights, look at your target
I opened the action, disassembled it. Needs some polishing at the lugs as the action was stiff. Snapped it to my shoulder and looked down the sights.
That will smooth up with use - don't go taking a Dremel or similar to it - take just a tad TOO much and you've ruined the gun. Those measurements are done in .001 increments if not .0001.
Don't look at the sights, look at your target.
Dreaming100Straight
New member
I am not certain, but I believe what FITASC means is look hard at a point, close your eyes, shoulder the gun, then open your eyes. If the gun fits it will be pointing at where you were looking. If your eyes are open as you bring the gun up you will unconsciously guide it to point at your target. Feel free to correct me if I have botched this up.
You should not have to fit yourself to your gun - it should fit you to the point that it becomes a natural extension of your arms and eyes. If you are having to crawl up the stock, smash your cheek down hard on the comb, etc., in order to make the gun shoot where you are looking and pointing, then the gun does not fit you properly.
XtremeRevolution
New member
FITASC: That's what I was trying to get at. To test how comfortable I was with the gun, I chose an object on the wall as a target, then swing the gun to my shoulder and attempted to aim. With the Stoeger, the moment the stock hit my shoulder, my sight acquisition was perfect and I was ready to pull the trigger. I could embarrass my cousin's semi-auto 12 gauge in a round of skeet shooting with this gun. It felt better than my father's Remingtom 870. The other two SxS shotguns I tried just felt...unnatural. I had to duck my head lower to get a good aim on those, and I tried them several times, lifting them to my shoulder and attempting to aim. Each time I did so, I found myself having to adjust myself or the gun.
It reminded me of shooting a Glock for the first time. I shoot a 1911 very well, and my sight acquisition is perfect when I bring up the handgun to aim. With a Glock, I have to make an adjustment each time because the grip angle is different. This Stoeger felt like my 1911.
I'm glad I didn't take a liking to the CZ or the Itasca prior to trying them out, because I would have been disappointed.
It reminded me of shooting a Glock for the first time. I shoot a 1911 very well, and my sight acquisition is perfect when I bring up the handgun to aim. With a Glock, I have to make an adjustment each time because the grip angle is different. This Stoeger felt like my 1911.
I'm glad I didn't take a liking to the CZ or the Itasca prior to trying them out, because I would have been disappointed.
Dreaming100Straight
New member
There are some exceptions, but you generally don't aim a shotgun. If it fits it will point where you look.
This is what Phil Bourjaily wrote on "How to Find a Shotgun That Fits You Just Right", short of getting a professional fitting, in Field & Stream.
If you do the same thing with your eyes open, you can't help but guide the gun to point where you look, even if it wants to point elsewhere.
This is what Phil Bourjaily wrote on "How to Find a Shotgun That Fits You Just Right", short of getting a professional fitting, in Field & Stream.
(C)heck fit by closing your eyes, mounting the gun, then opening your eyes to see if you’re looking straight down the rib, or maybe seeing a bit of the rib if that’s what you prefer
If you do the same thing with your eyes open, you can't help but guide the gun to point where you look, even if it wants to point elsewhere.
Sxs
I have an Uplander in .410....have had it for years. No complaints. No problems. Works as advertised.
I have, also, a Baikal IZH-43 in 12 gauge. Single trigger. i have had that gun much longer than the Stoeger. I shoot it fairly often at 16 yard Trap. It also has functioned well....reliable, accurate.
I like SXSs and own five of them. The two mentioned as well as a Parker, an old Ithaca, and a LeFever...all double triggers except for the Russian gun.
This^^^^^.If you get a Stoeger, get a plain Uplander with 2 triggers and extractors. They have a pretty solid reputation as dependable guns. Tons of them used in CAS. The single trigger
I have an Uplander in .410....have had it for years. No complaints. No problems. Works as advertised.
I have, also, a Baikal IZH-43 in 12 gauge. Single trigger. i have had that gun much longer than the Stoeger. I shoot it fairly often at 16 yard Trap. It also has functioned well....reliable, accurate.
I like SXSs and own five of them. The two mentioned as well as a Parker, an old Ithaca, and a LeFever...all double triggers except for the Russian gun.
XtremeRevolution
New member
I decided on the Coach Gun Supreme due to the factory recoil pad, the upgraded wood finish, and the removable chokes. Part 31481, with a double trigger, with the blued receiver and barrels. I'm considering getting a second IC choke since one is IC and one is M, but I'm not sure if there's much of a point to it for just breaking clay.
One thing I was curious about. What are everyone's thoughts on the nickel coated barrels? I've heard they can chip and start to rust. Any truth to that?
One thing I was curious about. What are everyone's thoughts on the nickel coated barrels? I've heard they can chip and start to rust. Any truth to that?
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I decided on the Coach Gun Supreme due to the factory recoil pad, the upgraded wood finish, and the removable chokes. Part 31481, with a double trigger, with the blued receiver and barrels. I'm considering getting a second IC choke since one is IC and one is M, but I'm not sure if there's much of a point to it for just breaking clay.
One thing I was curious about. What are everyone's thoughts on the nickel coated barrels? I've heard they can chip and start to rust. Any truth to that?
Is that a gun with 20" barrels? I am more of a fan of longer barrels personally, especially for clay targets.
As to chokes, that would depend on the targets. Are you talking about slow hand-thrown in the backyard stuff, or shooting competition type at a gun club? That would make a big difference. I shoot competition (my screen name is a type of clay target game), and I use a LM for 90% of the targets I see. On a typical 14 station sporting clays course that would mean 11-12 stations with that, and the remainder I will use a SK or IM for really close or really far targets.
As to the nickel topic - are you meaning on the outside or inside of the barrels? Inside is usually hard chromed if anything and is very durable.
XtremeRevolution
New member
Your post has me thinking about the barrel length.
The 12 gauge coach comes in a nickel coating on the outside, and the Stoeger coach guns are 20" barrels. Could you elaborate on why you prefer a longer barrel?
The Uplander is $50 cheaper and is available with double triggers, removable chokes, and either 26" or 28" barrels.
Interestingly, the 28" Uplander is 44" total length, which is still 4.5" shorter than a Remington 870 with the same length barrel.
I don't believe I'd be shooting any competition. Just hand-thrown backyard stuff. Maybe find a skeet shooting range nearby. I would like to do some hunting. I've done as much reading as I can, and I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports. People who have shot with 20" coach guns for a decade and hunt everything with them, people who shoot a 20" coach gun better than their friends shoot longer guns, and then people who insist a longer barrel is ideal. Having thought it over more today, I'm still not settled on the barrel length.
From what I have read, it has more to do with the swing than with accuracy or distance, as the chokes will manage that. I haven't shot as much with a shotgun as I'd like, but it seems that people swing too fast with short barrels and stop too quickly. I may drive back down to the range I went to that had the stoeger 12 gauge coach and hold it again next to the uplander.
As a side benefit, the coach would fit nicely in my suitcase when I fly out to California to shoot with my dad. I don't know if the 26" or 28" barrel will fit in a suitcase.
There were also some remarks about some ranges not allowing you to use a gun below a certain length due to muzzle blast. Is this true?
The 12 gauge coach comes in a nickel coating on the outside, and the Stoeger coach guns are 20" barrels. Could you elaborate on why you prefer a longer barrel?
The Uplander is $50 cheaper and is available with double triggers, removable chokes, and either 26" or 28" barrels.
Interestingly, the 28" Uplander is 44" total length, which is still 4.5" shorter than a Remington 870 with the same length barrel.
I don't believe I'd be shooting any competition. Just hand-thrown backyard stuff. Maybe find a skeet shooting range nearby. I would like to do some hunting. I've done as much reading as I can, and I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports. People who have shot with 20" coach guns for a decade and hunt everything with them, people who shoot a 20" coach gun better than their friends shoot longer guns, and then people who insist a longer barrel is ideal. Having thought it over more today, I'm still not settled on the barrel length.
From what I have read, it has more to do with the swing than with accuracy or distance, as the chokes will manage that. I haven't shot as much with a shotgun as I'd like, but it seems that people swing too fast with short barrels and stop too quickly. I may drive back down to the range I went to that had the stoeger 12 gauge coach and hold it again next to the uplander.
As a side benefit, the coach would fit nicely in my suitcase when I fly out to California to shoot with my dad. I don't know if the 26" or 28" barrel will fit in a suitcase.
There were also some remarks about some ranges not allowing you to use a gun below a certain length due to muzzle blast. Is this true?
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Short barrels look cool in the movie - they are called "coach" guns because they were intended to originally be used by the person "riding shotgun" on the stagecoach. They were made for very short distances and more spot shooting at targets not generally moving. CASS folks like the historical connection. That said, for shooting dynamic targets in lieu of static ones, it is all about swing, MOI, and doing it smoothly to the target. The current length you see on sporting courses is 30-32 on and O/U and 30 on a semi. This adds length and a little more forward bias which tends to really help with your swing dynamics. Short barrels, while they might start faster, are also faster to stop and thus miss from behind.
If clay games at the club are in your future, go to your local trap/skeet/sporting club and make some friends, ask them about their guns and why they chose what they did. See if they'll let you borrow/rent various types to see what you might like. Even if it is out of your range, it will give you something to aspire to later and also some indications of features you might want on whatever gun you decide.
As to the suitcase - guess that would depend on your suitcase! But you need to read each airlines rules as any gun MUST be in a locked secured case with non-TSA locks (that is my understanding)
Yes there are a lot of places, for safety reasons, that do not allow short barrels or any kind of "tactical" guns. The clay clubs run at a different level then clubs where folks are doing 3-gun stuff or shooting lots of slugs and buckshot. Not saying one is better or worse, just different rules for different reasons, so always check. A short barrel gun is usually out of place at a clay games place just like a 32" O/U is at a 3-gun place. "There's a time and a place for everything".
If clay games at the club are in your future, go to your local trap/skeet/sporting club and make some friends, ask them about their guns and why they chose what they did. See if they'll let you borrow/rent various types to see what you might like. Even if it is out of your range, it will give you something to aspire to later and also some indications of features you might want on whatever gun you decide.
As to the suitcase - guess that would depend on your suitcase! But you need to read each airlines rules as any gun MUST be in a locked secured case with non-TSA locks (that is my understanding)
Yes there are a lot of places, for safety reasons, that do not allow short barrels or any kind of "tactical" guns. The clay clubs run at a different level then clubs where folks are doing 3-gun stuff or shooting lots of slugs and buckshot. Not saying one is better or worse, just different rules for different reasons, so always check. A short barrel gun is usually out of place at a clay games place just like a 32" O/U is at a 3-gun place. "There's a time and a place for everything".
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Dreaming100Straight
New member
As to the suitcase - guess that would depend on your suitcase! But you need to read each airlines rules as any gun MUST be in a locked secured case with non-TSA locks (that is my understanding)
You have that right FITASC. Check the particular airline's policies, but hard sided (not a soft sided or duffel bag type) case with a lock that is not TSA approved. (You do not give the TSA agent the key. Check in early in case they page you when someone down the line wants it opened for inspection.)
XtremeRevolution
New member
I've transported handguns before when flying out to California, and they were always in their own locked containers. It was a smooth process. The coach gun breaks down into 20" total length since the stock is about as long as the barrels are, so that makes it fit in even a carry-on size (which I would check in of course). I'll have to measure my larger luggage bags to see if the 26" or 28" barrels would fit.
Looks like I'm making another trip to the gun store to hold the uplander next to the coach gun.
I also decided I won't be competing with this gun. Any trap/skeet shooting will be just for fun. If I do any type of competing, it will be CAS, also just for fun. I would like to start hunting with a buddy of mine though.
Looks like I'm making another trip to the gun store to hold the uplander next to the coach gun.
I also decided I won't be competing with this gun. Any trap/skeet shooting will be just for fun. If I do any type of competing, it will be CAS, also just for fun. I would like to start hunting with a buddy of mine though.
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One thing I was curious about. What are everyone's thoughts on the nickel coated barrels? I've heard they can chip and start to rust. Any truth to that?
Yes, nickel can chip or start to peel
XtremeRevolution
New member
So I discovered that the CZ is a straight grip due to being a traditional French stock. That's what threw me off about the fit. I now like it.
I held one in the store today. I think in the interest of owning a gun that I can keep for many many years, I will swallow the extra $200 and get the CZ Bobwhite 12 gauge. I compared the fit and finish of the Stoeger to the CZ and I realized in due time, I would grow to dislike it and would lose money selling it to get the CZ.
I think I can get used to the different stock with enough practice.
I held one in the store today. I think in the interest of owning a gun that I can keep for many many years, I will swallow the extra $200 and get the CZ Bobwhite 12 gauge. I compared the fit and finish of the Stoeger to the CZ and I realized in due time, I would grow to dislike it and would lose money selling it to get the CZ.
I think I can get used to the different stock with enough practice.
Not quite French - called an English or straight stock, it really shines when a gun has two triggers as it allows you to slide your hand back just a smidgen for ease of using the rear trigger. It also typically allows a shooter to use a longer LOP due to that design while a tightly curved target pistol grip is usually done with a slightly shorter LOP.
The Turks (who make the CZ) do a much better job (IMO) than those Stoegers made in Brazil.
The Turks (who make the CZ) do a much better job (IMO) than those Stoegers made in Brazil.