Need advice on a revolver and a long gun for brown bear country.

We live in North Georgia, and go hiking & camping regularly in black bear country. I always have my G29 with me (conceals well in my pocket.) I carry double tap 200 grain ammo, so I've got the best 10mm ammo for penetration. I have seen black bear a few times over the years, and they all have moved on after spotting us. I really don't want to shoot a bear, but would in self defense.

Our trip to Grizzly country has me thinking. I carry a concealed weapon regularly where allowed (keltec PF9 or Glock G27), so I'm not planning to change that behavior just because a few hippies might see my gun. On that note though I'd still rather carry a pistol, and carry it on my hip with my shirt over it keeping it mostly concealed. If anyone notices & decides to hassle me about it then I'd try to be patient with them, and not make a big deal out of it. I've been in several conversations with people that don't like/understand guns, and have found that a patient attitude with them is the best approach. In the end though, people can think whatever they want; I guess I don't care. I want to be prepared, and besides it's fun buying a new gun.

I have always considered it irresponsible to be out in the woods (hiking, camping, etc) without at least a pistol. I have read where bear spray works the best, so I plan on carrying both the spray and a gun. I'd use the bear spray first, and a gun if all else fails.

I like the suggestion to get a 4" 44 magnum and have considered it. It would pack well and shoot well. I've narrowed it down to these choices - Ruger Alaskan 454 (2.5" barrel & 44 oz), Taurus Raging Bull 454 (5" barrel & 51 oz), Ruger 44 mag (4.2" barrel & 47 oz), or S&W 44 mag (4" barrel & 41.5 oz)....I'm still undecided on what to get.

Which one would you get? Why?
 
I don't know your state laws, but an AK PISTOL/Draco is defined as "pistol" and can be carryed in my state concealed. A thought of replacing the long gun for it. Stuff it in your pack, if state law allows you. Thats a reason why I am looking at one, I can conceal a pistol with a rifle caliber. Good for trails.


IMO I buy the Alaskan 454, stay away from the S&W and Taurus. S&W has dumb IL and being such a high pressure caliber could turn the lock on quicker than a 38/357.
 
I would get one of the Rugers. You can shoot heavy magnum loads with a Redhawk that would cause problems in the S&W. Taurus is not in the same league as Ruger and S&W in terms of quality but some people like them.

I have a 5.5 inch Redhawk in 44M and it will shoot a 325 grain Beartooth Bullet at 1324 fps and a 355 grain Beartooth Bullet at 1183 fps.

If you don't reload, Buffalo Bore sells a 340 gr. 44M round that does 1401 fps out of a 5.5 inch Redhawk. This load is not recommended for the S&W handguns, but a Redhawk handles it with no problem. A 4 inch RH would probably clock 1200 to 1300 fps with this load.

With these kinds of velocities with heavy, hardcast bullets from a 44 Magnum, do you really need a 454?

On another topic, if you want to see some real live brown bears when you visit Yellowstone, check out the grizzly park in West Yellowstone http://www.grizzlydiscoveryctr.com/
Most of the bears there are problem bears from Alaska and, of course, are much larger than anything you'll find in Montana.

Skidder - thanks for your post. It helps to hear the real life experiences from people who live in bear country.
 
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A Blackhawk in .45 Colt can do the job, for a lot cheaper than the other suggested weapons. Buffalo Bore makes a 325 grain bullet at 1325fps that would do nicely.

Then get yourself a lever gun in the same caliber.
 
Thanks Skidder & others for the good info & advice.

Super Sneaky Steve, that looks like good advice on the 45 Colt. Can it handle the +P loads from Buffalo Bore or Double Tap? Looks to be on par with a 44 mag but with even heavier ammo. Am I right? How much cheaper is a blackhawk 45 Colt?
 
To BigJimP or anyone else that's been to these parks (post gun law change),

Did you see anyone carrying a gun while you were in these parks? I have heard that not many people carry guns or even bear spray while in the park which is surprising to me. What kind of hassles were you talking about?
Thanks.
 
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No, I have never seen a visitor openly carrying a handgun - or a long-gun in either Glacier or Yellowstone parks. I have been to Glacier twice and Yellowstone once since the new laws on firearms went into force / before that, of course, you could not have them at all anywhere in the park.

http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/upload/gunsinparks_IMR_2-2010.pdf

and as the policy says...you'll have issues when you stop at any federal facility inside the park .... like some hotels, some restaurants, visitor centers, etc ..even with concealed weapons / if someone were to see it.

I think its fair to say, while the Rangers probably understand the laws, they will do everything they can to urge you not to openly carry any guns - because it will make people very nervous / and you're going to find its a huge hassle, in my opinion - both from other visitors reactions and the rangers.

I'm not saying a Grizzly is not dangerous ...or moutain lions...or whatever...although Grizzly in the parks are more used to people - and associate them with food way more than they do in the National forrests / you just need to be aware and smart about where you go. In general - if Rangers have Grizzly frequenting an area where a trail runs thru it ...they will close the trail at the trailhead. I think both parks are very safe...and the chance of an encounter with any Grizzly - even at a distance / is very slim ( probably 90% or more of the visitors will not see a Grizzly in either park ) - except in the back country of either park ...where very few people go at all, even though there are trails - those areas are way beyond a day hike. Many of those remote areas are only passable from July 1st - thru the end of Sept ...and many park services are closed after Labor Day -- so the back country ( 2 days or more from a trailhead ) just do not get that much traffic.

Day hikes are one thing....and no, I did not see many day hikers carrying bear spray / but most everyone - will have bells on their packs or their "trail sticks" and be in groups on all the real popular trails. Backpackers ...on long day trips / or back country visitors will almost always have bear spray in my experience....although my days of backpacking in remote areas in either park - are behind me / if I were going there today - that's all I'd carry / and be smart about food storage and food preparation areas.

Of course most of your time will be spent in Montana, Wyoming, etc....so make sure you have a permit that allows you to carry concealed in those states. Open carrying a handgun ...even outside the parks ...in those states, is going to get you a lot of unwanted attention in my experience ---so I wouldn't do it / except if I were camping or fishing in remote areas of the National Forrest - outside of the National Parks of course.
 
When I bought the Raging Bull 6" barrell in 44 magnum I thought the recoil was not too bad. So I pick up another Raging Bull 5" in 454. The recoil of the 454 is almost like a kick of a small mule... LOL! Both are very accurate...

444and454.jpg
 
I spent most of last week backpacking in YNP and was told explicitly that "weapons" were prohibited in the back country just before I was asked directly if I had any weapons, when we picked up our back country pass. I didn't because I didn't need the extra 3 pounds to lug back and forth over the continental divide.

In the last few years I've seen a grizzly in the park about once a season. This years was in May. They always have minded their own business and I mine. No trouble. Of course we keep a clean camp, keep food high and away, wear bear bells on our packs, and keep bear spray handy.

The only time I thought about bears this trip was when walking through head high brush near some berry patches. A ranger I talked with about 15 miles from the trail head told me black bears were active in the canyon we were in but we saw only scat no bears. As stated before, if bears are a problem in an area the rangers will close the area.

I have seen people carrying in the park and typically carry myself but it's the humans not the bears that concern me. All buildings are posted.

Then again, I can only begin to imagine the fuss if you shot a bear in the park. A lot of your blood better be on display and half a limb missing would be better.:)

I'm headed up to Glacier this next weekend. Bear spay is the only thing I'll take for bears. Based on last week, however, I will double up on DEET.:D
 
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STW brought this up ....on being asked specifically if he had firearms when he was picking up his backcountry permit....and I didn't know firearms were specifically prohibited in the backcountry - in view of the change in the regulations on guns in the park in 2010 ...( I was backpacking in Glacier long before permits were required...)....

here is an excerpt from the use regulations - for a backcountry permit...

Backcountry Use Regulations
The following regulations apply to all backcountry use:
• Pets, firearms, motorboats, snowmobiles, and wheeled vehicles
(including bicycles and canoe carts) are prohibited.
• All natural features are protected. Fish and edible berries
may be harvested for personal consumption only. Check
park regulations, or ask a park ranger, for limits. Picking
mushrooms is prohibited.
• Hunting and trapping are prohibited.
• Wood fires are permitted in designated fire pits only.
• Pack out all refuse, including uneaten food and scraps.
• Food must be prepared and consumed only in the food
preparation area.
• Stock use is restricted to designated trails and campgrounds.
• Grazing stock is prohibited.
• Feeding, disturbing, or harassing wildlife is unsafe and illegal.
• Fishing does not require a license. Obtain the Fishing
Regulations handout when you pick up your permit.
• Shortcutting switchbacks is unsafe, destructive, and illegal.
• Human waste must be deposited in a toilet. In the absence
of a toilet, deposit feces in a 6-8 inch deep “cathole” at least
200 feet from water sources and pack out toilet paper.
• Commercial use (including guiding and outfitting) is prohibited,
unless authorized by a concession permit or commercial
use license.
• There is a 14 day limit in July and August.
------------
so again, I think carrying a weapon in the park is a poor idea...if you're concerned, pick up some bear spray ....every hardware store, outdoor store in the area will have it...
 
How is it that they can prohibit firearms in the backcountry? I thought that the NPS cannot prohibit firearms anymore.
 
Bear attacks in Montana

While I do agree with the others who say that bear attacks in Montana are rare and while I personally did not see any griz while hiking in Yellowstone a few years ago, bear attacks do happen -

2010, north of YNP in the Gallatin National Forest
http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_21d02556-9a58-11df-b1f3-001cc4c03286.html

2011, two separate incidents in YNP
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nat...tack-in-yellowstone-second-one-this-year.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gre...stone-grizzly-bear-mauling-from-torrence.html
 
Hippies? Are there still hippies? I thought that they all died out back around 1980.
Pete
Click to expand...

No, they just dress better nowadays. I'd take a purple micro bus Jesus hippie from the 70's any-day over the atheist anti American ones of today. The former were far fewer than the latter.
 
Maybe they'll be Christian bears. Like the hiker who turned around to see a bear. The hiker prayed "Lord, let this be a Christian bear." He turned around again and the bear was praying, "For this food we are about to receive...."
 
Maybe they'll be Christian bears. Like the hiker who turned around to see a bear. The hiker prayed "Lord, let this be a Christian bear." He turned around again and the bear was praying, "For this food we are about to receive...."
Click to expand...

LOL...:D
 
I just returned from Glacier and had my sidearm S&W Governor holstered on my hip under a vest. Did not see any open carry, but did see plenty of bear spray while hiking. Montana does not have sales tax on Bear Spray, so I picked it up at the Army & Navy store in Whitefish for $35.

Was not aware that firearms are not permitted in the backcountry. There is no way I would use the backcountry if those are the rules. I'd head to the "Bob" where you can carry in the backcountry.
 
STW, that is really surprising that firearms are not allowed in the back country, and seems to go against the new laws. You were just there, so I believe you. I'm just wondering why firearms are not allowed, and how they can disallow them. Any idea?

Everything I have found on the web says guns are allowed. I recently talked to someone at Yellowstone regarding making reservations, and she said guns were allowed (she had to look this info up though which means she didn't know that much.)
I found this on Yellowstone's website - http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm
It says, "FIREARMS IN PARKS

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park."

The only thing I can figure is that they must have special rules when getting a back country permit. I was wondering though if they were talking about pellet guns and the sort which are still not allowed in the park.

I have read many times that bear spray has been proven to be the best defense, but I'd still like to have a backup plan if it's allowed. It just may have to be a concealed weapon like my 10mm G29.
 
"I like the suggestion to get a 4" 44 magnum and have considered it. It would pack well and shoot well. I've narrowed it down to these choices - Ruger Alaskan 454 (2.5" barrel & 44 oz), Taurus Raging Bull 454 (5" barrel & 51 oz), Ruger 44 mag (4.2" barrel & 47 oz), or S&W 44 mag (4" barrel & 41.5 oz)....I'm still undecided on what to get.

Which one would you get? Why? "

Had two S&W M29s, a 4" and a 6.5” , the 4” I just couldn’t shoot consistently and the 6.5” was somewhat painful (despite the porting). Couldn’t shoot them fast enough accurately. Sold them.

Problem with the M29 is once you sell it, a few months later you are wanting to shoot it again.

Third time. Picked up a M29-4 which had obviously been customized, small K-frame round grip, large quick acquisition sights, 3” full lug barrel, robust unfluted cylinder, silky action, and despite its small size weighs 46 ounces, empty. Easy carry, conceals well. Accurate, quick, soft shooting too. The goal is 6 shots in 2 seconds.

Why such a small 44 mag?

Bears and big cats, are nature’s programmed predators, they hunt and kill daily. Close up. A 44 mag snubby is the answer to a swift ambush when one must dance with the devil. Snubbies (in any caliber) are great close range rough and tumble guns.

Of the choices offered above, I’d be tempted to take the Ruger Alaskan 454 (2.5" barrel & 44 oz), but that’s a lighter weight, shorter barrel, and hotter cartridge, not sure that would work for me.

Good luck with your search.


Pictured below, the 44 mag trail snubby, with fat Pachmyer NG grips taken off of the 44 spl beneath it and 6 quick shots, 44 mag (H110 handloads)…was shooting high.
 

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