Renegade19sc
New member
I have read that some like to neck size only for all cases. I have also read that Neck sizing is ideal for belted magnums such as 7mm Rem Mag and cases such as the 308, 30-06 are better to be full length sized.
Neck sizing Vs. Full length on certain cases
- Thread starter Renegade19sc
- Start date
Renegade19sc, Me two, I have also read about neck sizing some cases and full length sizing other cases. Then someone goes straight to bench rester's methods and techniques. Always absent? Rational: most reloaders respond with "I want my cases to last a life time". Life time? The life of the case, the life of the rifle or the life of the shooter?
Then there is that part about stretch, there is a real cute saying, goes something like the firing pin strikes the primer then the whole thing takes off for the shoulder of the chamber etc., etc.. If there wan any truth to that cute saying every case stretches in the worst of places every time it is fired and there is nothing a reloader can do about it.
Just saying
Not really but it would help if a reloader has methods and techniques they should have rational as to 'WHY' and 'BECAUSE'.I have neck sizing dies, I have small base dies, I have forming dies, I can size a case to minimum length/full length size with a standard full length sizing die. I can use the same die and size a case for a short chamber (.017" shorter than a minimum length size case) to infinity. Infinity would include a chamber without a shoulder or a more practice length that would be .016" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case (that would be .011" longer than a 30/06 go-gage length chamber.
All of that without grinding the top of the shell holder or bottom of the die.
F. Guffey
I switched from neck sizing to full length sizing on everything some years back and don't regret it a bit. I am not a competitive target shooter and simply got tired of having some rounds chamber hard, when hunting I want them to run smooth and clean. Also I load for several friends at times and I want to be sure the cases will run clean in their rifles at well. Only belted mag I still load is the 7 mm Rem mag.
I think it's a preference thing , either will work just fine . Are you looking for a specific reason why everyone thinks there way is the best ? I , like Panfisher neck sized only for awhile . I did not like the tight bolt closing and on those sometimes got sticky bolt lifts . I went back to FL Minimal sizing and accuracy is no different .
I have multiple rifles in same calibers and I size cases per each chamber . How ever when my brass gets close to the end of it's life but still has a couple firings left in them ( based on my time line ) They get sized to the length of my Forster GO gage , loaded and put up for SHTF days . This way they should chamber in any rifle I have or may have in the future .
I have multiple rifles in same calibers and I size cases per each chamber . How ever when my brass gets close to the end of it's life but still has a couple firings left in them ( based on my time line ) They get sized to the length of my Forster GO gage , loaded and put up for SHTF days . This way they should chamber in any rifle I have or may have in the future .
I recommend full length resizing, in fact, I use small base dies in every caliber that I can find them. Always, always, regardless of cartridge, use case gages to set up your sizing die.
This is how it works:
Bad practices manage to creep into the public domain, becoming sacrosanct, without anyone ever testing the practice, or knowing how it started. Recently I was talking to bud about engine rebuilding. We wondered about the advice to segregate push rods, ensure that the old push rods go back into place exactly where they had been, but, with new pushrods, you simply put them where you want. We thought this practice was one of these untested sacrosanct ideas that everyone follows.
So when it gets to the advice to neck size, I don't know where it really started. It certainly is the lazy man's reloading technique. Until such time as the cases won't reliability extract, which Metal God found, then folks reconsider.
I also think idea that it extends case life came from reloader's who never set up their dies with case gages. This is the difference between Go and NO Go. This is the maximum allowable stretch allowed by the designer and manufacturer of a cartridge case with one firing.
Some don't believe in stretch, provide bizarre advice on how to set up a sizing die by feeling, or feeler gages, and don't believe in standardization. I am of the opinion that these are the ones who proclaimed the wonders of neck sizing. They sized their cases too much in a sizing die, the cases stretched apart in a couple of firings, and since these Wayward Corpses* don't believe in headspace, or case stretch due to oversizing, they assigned their short case life to full length resizing.
*The Wayward Corpse is a creature that escaped the clutches of the Mortician, ran off to the public library, and from hence, logged onto the internet. The foggy, fuzzy, information flow of their posts is a result of embalming fluids eating the synapses of their brain. The post mortem career's of Wayward Corpses can be quite long, all depending on the temperature and humidity of their location.
This is how it works:
Bad practices manage to creep into the public domain, becoming sacrosanct, without anyone ever testing the practice, or knowing how it started. Recently I was talking to bud about engine rebuilding. We wondered about the advice to segregate push rods, ensure that the old push rods go back into place exactly where they had been, but, with new pushrods, you simply put them where you want. We thought this practice was one of these untested sacrosanct ideas that everyone follows.
So when it gets to the advice to neck size, I don't know where it really started. It certainly is the lazy man's reloading technique. Until such time as the cases won't reliability extract, which Metal God found, then folks reconsider.
I also think idea that it extends case life came from reloader's who never set up their dies with case gages. This is the difference between Go and NO Go. This is the maximum allowable stretch allowed by the designer and manufacturer of a cartridge case with one firing.
Some don't believe in stretch, provide bizarre advice on how to set up a sizing die by feeling, or feeler gages, and don't believe in standardization. I am of the opinion that these are the ones who proclaimed the wonders of neck sizing. They sized their cases too much in a sizing die, the cases stretched apart in a couple of firings, and since these Wayward Corpses* don't believe in headspace, or case stretch due to oversizing, they assigned their short case life to full length resizing.
*The Wayward Corpse is a creature that escaped the clutches of the Mortician, ran off to the public library, and from hence, logged onto the internet. The foggy, fuzzy, information flow of their posts is a result of embalming fluids eating the synapses of their brain. The post mortem career's of Wayward Corpses can be quite long, all depending on the temperature and humidity of their location.
It's more about the type of rifle action than the cartridge. Semi-auto's, levers and pumps require FL resizing every time. Even for a bolt action, you'll have to FL resize eventually. If you ever buy once fired brass, you'll have to FL resize that too.
Personally, I've never used a case gauge to set up anything in 40 years or so. Never felt or gauged a feeling either. My M1 Rifle and 1903A4 eat the same brass just fine.
Personally, I've never used a case gauge to set up anything in 40 years or so. Never felt or gauged a feeling either. My M1 Rifle and 1903A4 eat the same brass just fine.
I full length resize everything. Its just simpler that way, and I know the same ammo can be used in different rifles. The only thing I ever considered doing neck sizing for were those ones where the chamber was out of whack and stetching cases more than I cared for, like my 6.5 Jap Arisaka. My 7mm Rem Mag has such a good chamber fit that its cases almost glide through a resizing die.
Renegade19sc
New member
I am learning about reloading. If there is a technique to save brass life I am all for it.
I'm actually surprised no one else has mentioned this.
It seems from the original post may be referring to belted magnums & rimmed cases, as opposed to "rimless" cases.
If that's the case then there is a lot of truth to it simply because rimmed & belted cases do not headspace on the shoulder, but on the rim or belt.
Neck sizing on those helps to not over work the neck & shoulder area which gives some advantages for case life & centering in the chambers.
It seems from the original post may be referring to belted magnums & rimmed cases, as opposed to "rimless" cases.
If that's the case then there is a lot of truth to it simply because rimmed & belted cases do not headspace on the shoulder, but on the rim or belt.
Neck sizing on those helps to not over work the neck & shoulder area which gives some advantages for case life & centering in the chambers.
ligonierbill
New member
I've used both, but have mostly gone to the Wilson case gauges to set my full length sizing dies. Can't speak to case life, as I have enough 7 mm and .338 brass to be on about the second loading. Depends a lot on the rifle, of course.
I just neck sized for the first time about a week ago. 54R. Haven't shot it yet, but I tested many rounds and none seemed offensively difficult to chamber.
Why? Not sure, something to try for accuracy and hopefully something to squeeze more reloads out of difficult to find brass. As for accuracy, I don't know yet, will hopefully on Sunday weather permitting.
Why? Not sure, something to try for accuracy and hopefully something to squeeze more reloads out of difficult to find brass. As for accuracy, I don't know yet, will hopefully on Sunday weather permitting.
603Country
New member
I started out years ago FL sizing. Then I went to Partial FL resizing. That worked pretty well. Then I heard all about neck sizing, so I got some of those. These days I use a Lee Collet Die (neck size) where I have light to medium loads and the chambers aren't too tight. On some calibers, particularly if I'm loading them rather hot, I find that FL sizing to the point that the shoulder is bumped adequately, but not too much, is my best way to go.
I really like the Lee Collet Die. So easy and no lube required at all. That said, the most consistent way that fits just about everybody is to FL size just enough to bump that shoulder. Don't overdo it and push the shoulder back too far or you'll eventually wind up with case head separations as you use and reuse the cases.
I really like the Lee Collet Die. So easy and no lube required at all. That said, the most consistent way that fits just about everybody is to FL size just enough to bump that shoulder. Don't overdo it and push the shoulder back too far or you'll eventually wind up with case head separations as you use and reuse the cases.
4runnerman
New member
If you are just bumping the shoulder back .002 then your good to go. I believe many studies have been done and the results were the same- Full Length Sizing produced a more accurate round on the average. Now if that bears on the rifle and other things I do not know. I was a Neck sizer for a few years and as others have said- I went to full length and have never looked back. I think this issue is about the same as Barrel Break in. Some do and swear by it, some don't and swear by it.
You will know after 4 or 5 firings. I tried neck sizing, and abandoned it rather quickly. It doesn't improve or save anything. It can be a pain in the neck sometimes. It produces minimal bullet grip and the bullet sets back when clambering from magazine.
-TL
603Country
New member
Tangolima, with standard cases and a standard neck die, you shouldn't have bullets loose in the neck. But I know that it can happen in some instances. I was partial resizing for my 220 Swift for years (and it shot wonderfully), but I got myself a neck sizing die for it, just to see how it would shoot. I had some rather old Norma cases that I had shot a bazillion times and trimmed and reloaded and reshot. That was way back before I ever checked a neck wall thickness. So I neck sized, reprimed, threw a powder charge into the case, and went to seat a bullet. The bullet fell into the case. The neck wall was so thin that the neck die couldn't constrict it enough to hold a bullet. But that doesn't mean that a neck die won't work correctly. Still...I have retired the neck sizing dies because I felt that accuracy wasn't as good as when I partial resized. And my partial resizing, which didn't bump the shoulder, has evolved to partial FL resizing with the intent to bump the shoulder adequately.
Neck sizing isn't evil per se. Especially if you happen to shoot factory ammo out of your bolt rifle, neck size and re-use said brass out of that same rifle a couple of times. Making fairly accurate ammo with a collet die is almost dummy proof. It's possible to make ammo that is just as accurate (if not more so) with a properly adjusted FL die, it just isn't as easy to explain in a book as neck sizing.
I'm pretty sure neck sizing gained the popularity it had a few years ago because of Modern Reloading (Lee reloading manual). Richard Lee touted neck sizing only as the method to size cases for the most accurate ammo possible. That's not quite true, but there are kernels of truth to it. It is easier for a novice to make accurate ammo with a collet die than with a FL die. That's why I believe Richard Lee was an advocate of neck sizing only... honestly it's just easier for a novice reloader to make accurate ammo with it and it also is the only method that they could make their hand press work with larger rifle ammo. Since Lee dies and equipment are a little less expensive than most other equipment, it is reasonable to believe that their reloading manual is owned by quite a few folks and influenced thought some. It did mine. I was an advocate of neck sizing, but I've learned that FL sizing certainly has it's place in bolt rifles. I do still neck-size, but I may get away from it. As others have said, you WILL have to full length size eventually anyway. That is, unless you want to stomp on the bolt throw to close the action.
Lee makes some good dies for the money. I use them almost exclusively just because I reload on a budget, and I've made extremely accurate ammo with Lee dies. Their reloading manual is informative, but the instructions for setting dies up are a little basic. You can set a full-length die up to make super accurate ammo, but the Lee manual does not cover how to adjust a FL die to a specific rifle chamber. FL sizing does work the brass a little more, but I'm not convinced that you get significantly shorter case life with FL sizing if you size just enough to chamber the round without force.
To the OP... virtually any rifle caliber can be neck sized only so long as it is a bolt action rifle and the ammo you are sizing was fired out of that rifle. Your caliber selections for neck sizing only mirror calibers that are exclusively limited to bolt action rifles. The calibers you list for full length sizing are also common calibers for semi-auto rifles, which must be full-length sized. Just a thought.
I'm pretty sure neck sizing gained the popularity it had a few years ago because of Modern Reloading (Lee reloading manual). Richard Lee touted neck sizing only as the method to size cases for the most accurate ammo possible. That's not quite true, but there are kernels of truth to it. It is easier for a novice to make accurate ammo with a collet die than with a FL die. That's why I believe Richard Lee was an advocate of neck sizing only... honestly it's just easier for a novice reloader to make accurate ammo with it and it also is the only method that they could make their hand press work with larger rifle ammo. Since Lee dies and equipment are a little less expensive than most other equipment, it is reasonable to believe that their reloading manual is owned by quite a few folks and influenced thought some. It did mine. I was an advocate of neck sizing, but I've learned that FL sizing certainly has it's place in bolt rifles. I do still neck-size, but I may get away from it. As others have said, you WILL have to full length size eventually anyway. That is, unless you want to stomp on the bolt throw to close the action.
Lee makes some good dies for the money. I use them almost exclusively just because I reload on a budget, and I've made extremely accurate ammo with Lee dies. Their reloading manual is informative, but the instructions for setting dies up are a little basic. You can set a full-length die up to make super accurate ammo, but the Lee manual does not cover how to adjust a FL die to a specific rifle chamber. FL sizing does work the brass a little more, but I'm not convinced that you get significantly shorter case life with FL sizing if you size just enough to chamber the round without force.
To the OP... virtually any rifle caliber can be neck sized only so long as it is a bolt action rifle and the ammo you are sizing was fired out of that rifle. Your caliber selections for neck sizing only mirror calibers that are exclusively limited to bolt action rifles. The calibers you list for full length sizing are also common calibers for semi-auto rifles, which must be full-length sized. Just a thought.
This is an outstanding article on sizing, case gages, and extending case life:
Extending Cartridge Case Life
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm
I bought belted magnum case gages for my 300 H&H and 375 H&H. Base to shoulder length is not controlled for belted magnum chambers, which leads to a real problem concerning shoulder set back if you follow sizing die instructions to "size to the shell holder plus a quarter turn", or if you follow the advice of a Wayward Corpse to insert feeler gages between the die and shell holder.
I bought a 300 H&H from a shooter who said he never could get more than three reloads from cases fired in the rifle. I asked him if he used case gages to set up his sizing die, and he contemptuously answered "No!". I have up to five reloads on some of my cases, and no case separations to date.