ND and wallboard penetration

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No matter how much you think you know, there is always something else to learn.

We can learn either by making the mistakes ourselves or by the mistakes of others. Mistakes will happen or else it wouldn't be called life. If everyone was perfect all of the time then the world would be a boring place and there would be no need for boards.

As I've said before, this lesson has now been learned by all of us that have read this thread. We've learned something about letting your guard down just for a split second.

And I thank Springmom for sharing this lesson so that I don't have to make it myself. If it hadn't been her, it would have been someone else. The only problem is that someone else may not have shared and thus helped to teach us.

I am highly upset that Springmom feels that she needs to lurk and not feel comfortable with joining in on the discussions. Her input as well as her help has been nothing but fantastic and eagerly enjoyed.

I think that we all need to sit back and reevaluate our own selves before we start to judge others. Myself included.

Wayne
 
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To those who flame.....

I have been floating around the forum for a few weeks now. So much so, that I have managed to compile my list of 'The Usual Suspects'.

Capt Charlie
XavierBreath
USP45usp
pax
Sir William
azredhawk44
Wildalaska
and springmom

Just to name a few. I've studied your posts, and have learned from them.

So, like others, when I read that this happened to springmom, I felt as if it happened to someone I knew. I'd read her posts, and my first reaction was - "I can't believe that happened to her!"

I think it's a mistake to admit mistakes in a group in which some simply must rip others to shreds. It happens over and over on this set of forums. Somebody makes a too-general statement, and bam, their credentials and character are confetti. Somebody has hideous spelling and immature writing skills, and same thing occurs. Somebody is stupid enough to share a frightening and dangerous error in the hope that others may learn from that mistake and all they are credited for is knowing how to use a computer and being an irresponsible idiot.
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I can't believe that any responsible gun owner would use this forum to talk down to someone like 'springmom'.

Forget what she 'should have done' or even what 'she should do'. That's between herself, her family (and her roofing contractor). All she can do now is share her story so people can learn from it. However, after receiving the response she did from some of you, it wouldn't surprise me if some people stopped posting all together.

As a new shooter, I look for these stories. I want to know what happened, and why. Any responsible organization conducts a 'post-mortem' of events so that they can learn from them, and change procedure if necessary (Doctors, Police, NTSB, the Military). They understand that these incidents can provide invaluable in teaching.

ND's are not inevitable, they are intolerable, and everything needs to be done to prevent them. Stories like springmom's help.

The only thing worse than doing something stupid is knowing it was stupid before you did it. It's not my place to say this, but I will - No anonymous post, positive or negative, can compare with how angry she must be with herself.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Hope things are well.
 
In house AD

SpringMom,

All I can say is, Whew girl, that is gonna cost. New roof, new sheetrock and two pairs of mens drawers I would guess.

Once everyones heart returns to normal, say in a month, as a thought I would pass to you, don't even mention or think of a safety class (I assume the young man has already been there). Class rooms are just that. An AD comes from "no thinking and just doing". Be it in a too relaxed mode with a firearm, due to lack of knowledge, or a heated situation, the brain does not always coincide with muscles.

I have used this and taught this method. Leave a couple of weapons out (unloaded) and become a tricky DI, talk to your son about one of the weapons, when he picks it up allow him to handle it for a minute. Then explain, you pickup the weapon, open the action, insert finger in the chamber to clear check, leave/lock action open. Handing to the other person requires the open chamber toward the receiving person. When receiving you insert finger into chamber to check. Always do this.

Follow where I am going. You teach him "procedures and muscle memory". Then start the pickup training. The "index finger" is always kept straight until the weapon is brought to bear on the intended target. Anytime a weapon is handled, watch his finger. The simple statement of "finger" will get his attention. Teach him to feel comfortable with the finger on the side of the frame. It has other benefits too, not related to this discussion.

If you do this in planned sessions like taking every gun out of the safe and passing them around, and a little trickery (gun laying out, and talking about the gun) to reinforce the learning it won't take long before the automatic movements are ingrained. Remember, we learn by doing and you are the Drill Instructor (DI).

This may seem a bit, over done, but I will say it is done this way in most LE academys and the military in most all countries. It has proven it self.

The best of luck to you and have a Merry Christmas, and may the sun shine on your holy roof (until the roofers get there),
LP
 
I mentioned this before in a thread I posted much earlier. I had a "near discharge" but it has opened my eyes and I hope to never have anything as bad in the future. I did not fire a cartridge, but instead, while cleaning my beretta neos, forgot step 1 (engage the safety).

As I was taking it apart, with the slide and barrel off the weapon, I squirted some breakfree into the action and proceeded to wiggle the trigger to get it worked in there (as usual) however without the safety the striker spring launched the striker. I found it and the spring and put it back where it belonged and then noticed that I had just put a hole in the glass of my monitor.

That made me REALLY mad and also scared about the fact that I had been too complacent around this gun and that I should not handle it unless I have my wits about me. Distraction and complacency are NOT good around guns. It's like mixing up sandpaper with toilet paper. Its going to be a very uncomfortable situation.


Be safe,
Mark
 
thanks, guys

I appreciate all the feedback, and I cannot tell you how glad I am that some of you sat and read the post of our collective stupidity to your children so they can learn. That was my hope in posting it in the first place, and I'm glad it was useful.

Final monetary damage, except for wallboard and paint for the interior, is $275. It's a small enough hole that the contractor will put flashing over the hole and then shingle over that.

Somebody asked for pix...I think I'll pass on that. :barf: However, for those who were interested in the actual mechanics of the thing: it was SureShot heavy dove load impacting the wallboard of the ceiling at probably 6-8 feet away. It put a 1x3 inch (estimating here) hole in the wallboard and roughly a 2.5-3 inch hole in the roof. The ND occurred not 10 feet from the outside wall (our bathroom is on the northeast corner of our house) and so the roof slants down there to where there is very little space between the ceiling of the room and the actual subroofing material. Had there been more space between, IDK what would have happened...bigger hole or no hole at all.

Would it work for home defense? Well, yeah, that would put quite a hole in somebody (as we have all discussed quite sufficiently I think). Will it go through wallboard? YES. And that was actually the other point I had meant to raise regarding this: a blast of dove load... not even buckshot... does a pretty good job on not just wallboard but plywood. That being the case, the same rules need to apply to shooting a BG with a shotgun as they would with your handguns. No, the shot won't travel 300 yards and hit the schoolbus full of nuns that would just happen to be going by your house at that exact moment (thank you, Mr. Murphy, for your law) but the idea that backstop isn't important because it's a shotgun has just been disproven to the tune of $275.

Again, thank you to those who learned from this (besides us!)

Be safe, keep your fingers OFF THE TRIGGER, and have a Merry Christmas.

Springmom, off to play SANTA again! and again. and again..... :D
 
Thanks for the information, I wonder where

Some of the posters are that said a dove load at 10 feet would not injure a man wearing a denim coat or some other such nonsence. I especially would like to hear from Lead Counsel.

I PM'd him but he does not want me to communicate with him anymore.
Must be over the disagreement we had about this very subject and his position that a muscle builder would not be affected. :barf:

Thanks for the information SpringMom and I hope you can have a Happy Holiday you deserve it.
Hope Santa brings you an NRA cert for a class.

Harley
 
PythonGuy said:
Sorry, I didn't mean to spoil the love in, please disregard my comments. I was just responding, not personally attacking.
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You mean like this:

(Image removed by Capt Charlie. The "P" in "PM" stands for "Private" ;) )

Capt Charlie said:
I've received several requests to re-open this thread, hopefully so that it can receive some positive and constructive response.

I've re-opened it.... for now, but any more personal attacks will get this thread locked down in a heartbeat and the attackers will be dealt with .
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Yep, the thread should be safe for now. Apparently he's taken his nonesense to PM instead.
 
Easy to be a rude critic when you are under a pen name on the internet. Anyway, Springmom - good for sharing and stay in the game.

A dove load at 10 ft. won't hurt a muscle builder? Must have been a head shot. Don't worry what Leadcounsel says - he doesn't have much credibility with his strange set of autodidactic tactics.
 
I think this one's about run its course. There's not a whole lot more that can be gained from it, and it appears that strong feelings remain; openly or covertly doesn't matter.

I do thank those of you that have worked to keep this thread constructive and postitive, and some good lessons have been learned here.

Thank you, Springmom, for sharing a lesson that we all should never get enough of :) .
 
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