ND and wallboard penetration

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Oh geez.

Look man, PythonGuy is right. We shouldn't let the possibility of 'hurting someones feelings' get in the way of truth & what is correct.

Springmom dropped the ball at least twice, and her son thrice. It's good that she realizes it and is big enough to talk about it...but lets not let the age of the wimp get it all twisted around to where PG is the boogeyman here just cause he laid it out a little too plainly for your comfort. Eh?
 
Most accidentals or nds are just that a shooting that

was not ment to happen.

I knew a guy who was shot by his brother when he was 15 they were messing around with an 8mm mauser.
He never walked again in his whole life. I knew him when he was 40. He shrugged it off and was fairly accident prone. He never blamed his brother because he loaded it and did not tell him. Sad. What a price to pay.

I knew a Sgt that almost lost his job for screwing around the same way. Got his partner shot and another lost his job. Playing around. Guns should all be considered loaded even if they are not.

I had an occasion to push a gun out of my face and it went off into a hotwater heater, would have been me if I did not react like I did.

I hate to see guns pointed at me even when I am looking at one to buy, really irritates me. Play with fire you get burned same with firearms.

Harley
 
What was it loaded with. Sorta dispels the myth that a shotgun is a better home defense weapon because it won't over penetrate. ceiling plus the roof It would probably go through 3 or 4 interior walls.
 
Springmom, bad day, it could have killed someone. You know that and you are going to be more attentive in the future. I would place some respponsibility on pop, he loaded it and put it in the safe. Communication. I am like Capt. Charlie, they are ALL loaded. That reduces the chances of a negligent and possibly fatal error.
 
I agree with Harley, the NRA has basic Shotgun courses that will go over the proper checking, loading and unloading process specific to the shotgun.

I am not going to be one to throw a stone at the glass house. Mistakes happen, mistakes with firearms happen too many times so it seems. Thank God that this one will end up with lessons for everyone, especially the adult. Harsh lesson to be taught, but a lesson neitherless.

I also respect the fact that Springmom had the fortitud(sp) to post of this and to show us all not to become complacent when handling firearms. It should be muscle memory to check each and every firearm before handling it or handing it over to another.

I hope that this isn't taken the wrong way but I believe that everyone in your household should take a refresher class in firearms safety. As a matter of fact I think that ALL of us here should make that a yearly goal, if not every year maybe every couple of years.

I'm not going to come down on Springmom as others have chosen to do, I will just ask that the lesson learned is learned so that it is never repeated. I thank God that everyone is okay and not harmed, and that by posting this thread will drive it into the members mind that the gun rules need to be followed 100% of the time, in 100% of all cases.

Thank you for sharing this with us, I for one have just gone through the four rules in my mind and have put this thread into my mind of little tidbits of information that will serve me in the present as well as the future.

Wayne
 
Pythonguy

Lighten up.

Springmom has proven herself here times over as a responsible and sensible person. But she's people, and people make mistakes. We all do. Providence sometimes dictates the degree of the mistake, and, granted, in this case it was a biggie. Were she flippant about it and unconcerned, rebukes like yours would be well warranted, but she's well aware of the gravity of her error and has taken steps to correct it. It took courage to disclose her mistake here; most wouldn't (and haven't ;) ).
 
Springmom,

I think some are being a little hard on you after the fact. Yes, it was a preventable error on your part and on the part of the youngster that could have been prevented. However, we're still human. We learn from our mistakes. A negligent discharge in your own home with your children in the room is a stronger message than any gun safety class. If you didn't learn it then, you're never going to. If you are half way sensable (which I believe you are) it won't happen again.

I open up every gun when I take possesion of it and before I hand it to someone else. Even at the gun store or after I've just watched someone else clear it. Every time. It becomes a habbit. Instill that habbit in your children.

Glad to hear everyone still has all their fingers and toes.
 
Wow. A general reply.

Thank you all for your responses.

I am amazed that anybody thinks this was taken lightly. Oddly, despite the disparaging comments regarding it being a "learning experience", everyone, first and foremost myself, went on to say SOMETHING about it needing to be a learning experience, or there needing to be more firearms education (a learning experience). So we are all agreed that it is, and should be, a learning experience. I hardly mean that in the sense of a light lunch and a PowerPoint presentation in the tea room of a local restaurant! I mean it needs to teach us (our family and YOU AND YOURS) the importance, as someone said, of 100% safety 100% of the time.

In reviewing all that has been said, there is one thing that I think has been grossly overlooked. It is this:

If you think this cannot happen to you, you are wrong.

I did not post this experience because I was looking to be flamed, because I thought it was an interesting way to spend fifteen minutes on the computer, or because I thought it unimportant. I posted it because it is essential that every single gun owner realize the awful truth that no matter how responsible a person you are (and despite some obvious reservations on that point from some folks, I really am) you can fail. Fail to attend for a split second behind the wheel of a car and you can die, or you can kill someone else. Fail to attend for a split second with a firearm and you can die, or you can kill someone else.

No one is immune from making mistakes, no one is immune from distraction and no one is immune from a ND. BTW, for what it is worth, you WILL note that I have referred to it as an ND from the beginning, not an AD. It was a negligent discharge. Period. But if you think it can never happen to you, you are fooling yourself. If you think your mind is so trained that you can never ever ever make a mistake with a firearm, you are fooling yourself. Machines can be programmed to do what they are supposed to do every single time, but we are not machines. It is a humbling and fearful thing to be human instead, but it is the only thing we can be. That is NOT AN EXCUSE. God in Heaven, how ANYBODY on this forum got the idea that I was making any excuses, I DO NOT KNOW.

I am still trying to decide if I erred in sharing this with this group. Perhaps not: there are a few who have said they have learned from it (there's that "learning experience" thing again) and if so, and if it makes everybody stop and check just ONE more time, then I'm glad. On the other hand, I think it's a mistake to admit mistakes in a group in which some simply must rip others to shreds. It happens over and over on this set of forums. Somebody makes a too-general statement, and bam, their credentials and character are confetti. Somebody has hideous spelling and immature writing skills, and same thing occurs. Somebody is stupid enough to share a frightening and dangerous error in the hope that others may learn from that mistake and all they are credited for is knowing how to use a computer and being an irresponsible idiot.

I'll be lurking for awhile at the very least. People who want to continue to shred my character and trumpet my lack of responsibility may do so without my participation. If the purpose of these forums is to pick apart other people, to suggest "punishment" as though its members were judge and jury, then it's not where I need to be anyhow. The moderators may do as they please with this thread, I don't much care.

Merry Christmas, ho ho ho. :(

Springmom
 
I've received several requests to re-open this thread, hopefully so that it can receive some positive and constructive response.

I've re-opened it.... for now, but any more personal attacks will get this thread locked down in a heartbeat and the attackers will be dealt with :mad: .
 
PythonGuy said:
I know you like to take me to task for my opinions, but in the case an ND, I don't care what you or others say or think, there in NO excuse.
Click to expand...
I'm not taking you to task for your opinion. I think everyone on involved in this thread believes this was a negligent and inexcusable event. I have even said as much:

Trip20 said:
I don't think she's treating it as a "right-of-passage"... as much as she's thanking the good Lord everyone is alive, uninjured, and learning from this very negligent, and very inexcusable mistake.
Click to expand...
What I am doing is suggesting that instead of throwing stones, you can take this thread for what it is: A gun enthusiast who - just like the rest of us - thinks of herself as "safe." She muffed up big time, humbled herself, and admitted to a huge mistake in the hopes that it may remind those of us who may become complacent - to NOT do so.

PythonGuy said:
Trip20
My snide remark (which its not) as you call it...
Click to expand...
FYI
 
First off, Springmom, you are not alone. There are four kinds of shooters....

1. Those shooters who have had a ND and learned from it. These are likely the safest shooters on the planet.
2. Those shooters who have had a ND and not learned a darned thing. It doesn't look at all like you fall into this category. You make no excuses, and you accept your share of the responsibility. Make sure your son does the same.
3. Those shooters who have never had a ND because they are darned lucky. These can be the most careless of all.
4. Those shooters who have never had a ND because they are safe, never making an error that costs them.

Now, those of us who fall into category 3 and 4, we really are not sure which category we are in, are we? Be honest. We try to stay in #4, but do we always?

Those shooters who have had a ND know exactly which category they fall into, and frankly so do most other folks.

I can say for myself that I learn from each truthful story such as yours about negligent discharges. Each story makes me a little more careful, a little less complacent, and a little more safe. Then, time erodes that safety until another ND occurs and I read or hear about it.

I saw this phenomenom on the flight deck over and over. We would continue for several months at sea with no injury, and everyone would get cocky, complacent, and then whammo! Somebody gets freighted back to the states in a metal container, hopefully alone. Familiarity breeds complacency. Complacency kills. Your story has immense value here. I appreciate your sharing it. It might be the one story that makes me not just eyeball that chamber, but check the magazine on my shotguns as well. Your story might be the one thing that keeps me from making the same mistake. Thank you for your contribution to my own safety.

I, myself, would rather shoot with someone who has had a ND than some cocky chump that thinks it will never happen to them.

Best regards, now get out there and shoot safe.
XB
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to spoil the love in, please disregard my comments. I was just responding, not personally attacking.
 
Python Guy

Then why did you edit all your posts then.If you was just responding? I ask this because i don't remember what you posted.
 
Dear Springmom:

Thank you for sharing this incident. A lot of us have learned from it. I hope that you don't resort to lurking; I really enjoy your posts (especially in the hunting forum). It took courage to admit your mistake.

I've noticed two interesting things that have occurred in the last 30 days:

1. A lot of people are being rude. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but there is no need to be rude. I understand what Springmom means when she commented about the attack on her character and credentials. On the Smithy forum, I recently observed a new member calling another member's comment "stupid." Meaningful discussion is good. But this is not a debate class where the goal is to shread someone. Stated otherwise, Springmom did not post this Thread so that she would be treated rudely and/or cross-examined. There are a couple of responses on this Thread that are down-right trollish; and

2. A lot of the veteran members are leaving TFL and going to THR. See observation No. 1.

I don't know how the Mods on TFL can prevent this type of behavior from continuing, but I hope that the decline in civility that I have observed in the last 30 days can be corrected.
 
springmom ~

Thanks for posting your story.

My older children (ages 16, 14, and 12) all read your post along with me and we discussed how it happened. The younger two (ages 10 and 11) came in while we were talking, and so we had them read it too. The boys were quite sobered by it, especially as I was able to point out (because I know this from your posts!) that these were people whose mom had taught them basic firearms safety and everyone involved really knew better than to do what they did.

One of my sons said, "It was really lucky he had the shotgun pointed up --" and another immediately interrupted, "-- that wasn't luck! That was a good habit!"

That gave me a good opportunity to reinforce why we follow all of the Four Rules, all the time. Anyone can make a momentary lapse and break one of the rules, but if you habitually follow all the rules all the time, then one of the other rules will very likely prevent tragedy.

pax
 
Now.....what I want to know is what was chambered in the gun, and the spread of the shot. Was it a magnum goose load? How much material was penetrated? Were any pigeons on your roof? Do you have pics of the damage? ;)

One point, with a pump shotgun pointed up, it is possible to check the chamber, but impossible to check the magazine without raising the gun over your head. With a pump shotgun, I work the action several, as in 5-6 times before I am satisfied enough to dry fire it. I do this in case of a sticky follower. Brownells and other suppliers have colored aluminum and plastic followers that make magazine corrosion a thing of the past, but also make checking the mag a lot more positive.
 
Reading Springmom's posts for months now, I have learned that she is thoughtful, caring, articulate and knowledgeable about firearms.

Most of the posts about ND's are from news accounts or rare forum participants, and I always think "what an idiot!", so I was really surprised to see this happen to a regular poster here! When something like this happens to a close neighbor, it always hits home deeper.

That it happened to Springmom shocked me even more!

I've read her account, and read all the posts about it, and from now on I will be even more careful!!

If it can happen to her, it can happen to any of us (whether we think so or not).

Springmom, for all you've been through, and continue to go through, let this Christmas Day be the one in which you hugged your family just a bit tighter, just a bit longer, and to remember just how blessed we are everyday to have them around.
 
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