Mythbusted! .357 Magnum 125JHP on Deer

I never have understood the philosophy that only deer need to be killed quickly and humanely, whereas coyotes, bobcats, wolves and other critters, just deserve to be shot.
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It's a distinction that makes a lot more sense in the proper context. Keith wasn't shooting varmints for recreation, he was shooting to protect his & his friends' livestock. Same general sort of rules apply to that as to self-defense. Make any hit you can under the circumstances--even a poor hit may be enough to achieve your goal of staying alive (self-defense) or preventing the loss of livestock (pest/varmint control).

Most varmint hunters these days are hunting for recreation and under those circumstances, IMO, the hunter has the same obligation to administer a quick, clean kill as he would if he were shooting a game animal.
 
Wyosmith,

I could not agree more with your: "As with so many other posts I have made, I have to say one more time, it’s less about the gun than it is the man shooting it."

Big calibers do not compensate for poor shooting.
 
Wyosmith,

I could not agree more with your: "As with so many other posts I have made, I have to say one more time, it’s less about the gun than it is the man shooting it."

Big calibers do not compensate for poor shooting.
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+1.....spot on comment.
 
I'm about halfway thru the book, lots of pest eradication, and lots of targets of opportunity. Lots of animals requiring follow - up shots.
 
I never have understood the philosophy that only deer need to be killed quickly and humanely, whereas coyotes, bobcats, wolves and other critters, just deserve to be shot. But that is a thread of it's own.
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Lots of people use poison to kill pest animals. Is that poison any more humane than a bad shot? I dont know... Both kill slowly and painfully.

Lots of farmers all over use poison on ground squirrels/gopher and the like. Do they not deserve a "humane" death?

Just wondering what every ones opinions are.

I know if we had to pay people to kill off ever varmint in every corn field that the cost of food would be huge.
 
Originally posted by Deja vu:


Lots of people use poison to kill pest animals. Is that poison any more humane than a bad shot? I dont know... Both kill slowly and painfully.
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What does poison have to do with using proper ammo for hunting deer? Or are you just justifying poor shooting ethics because it's no worse than poison? Or are you saying that since it's okay for pests to suffer, than taking poor shots or using improper ammo on deer is okay too? Around here, the major pest to farmers are deer. Does that mean we should poison them and make poor shots on them just to save our corn?


Originally posted by Deja vu:

Lots of farmers all over use poison on ground squirrels/gopher and the like. Do they not deserve a "humane" death?
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The farmers or the pests? If it's pests, they do deserve a humane death as quickly as possible. Being immune to or getting some form of enjoyment from any animal's suffering is not a trait of a ethical human, much less a ethical hunter. They are all still God's creatures. Many justify gut shooting wolves and coyotes and letting them just drag themselves off to die a slow painful death because they deserve it, since their prey does not always die quickly and humanely. Almost a vengeance thing. That thinking makes us no better than them. Self Defense and protection of property is different yes, but it still does not justify taking bad shots or using improper ammo, if they can be avoided.


Originally posted by Deja vu:

I know if we had to pay people to kill off ever varmint in every corn field that the cost of food would be huge.
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Around here farmers could and do charge folks for the privilege of shooting off pests like deer, bear, raccoons, squirrels and others that prey on corn. They could actually make money and not spend. Most prefer the thrill of doing it themselves. For corn, poison is reserved for insect pests. Poison in a corn field for anything else would result in dead geese and Sandhill Cranes and is a Federal offense. Something that is just as irresponsible as making poor shots on them.
 
relax. Its not worth getting all fired up over a post :D

I was responding only to this section

I never have understood the philosophy that only deer need to be killed quickly and humanely, whereas coyotes, bobcats, wolves and other critters, just deserve to be shot. But that is a thread of it's own.
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as shown in the post you responded too. I was stating that if I was hunting pests like ground squirrels (note that I used those as the example in my post) that I would not worry about if injured one.

I think its funny that you came up with a huge post talking about deer and such that had little to do with the post you where quoting. Any way like all hunters I believe in taking ethical shots. If you read my old posts on this forum you will see that I rarely even take shots at 100 yards.

Any way its late so may be I am miss reading anger into your post. If that is the case sorry :) It was meant more to make people think. We always preach ethical hunt yet we (people in general) don't say any thing about the suffering we inflict in the form of poisons on farming. At what point is it ok to "unethically" kill some thing? Where is that line?
 
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Deja vu I see what you where doing there ;)

Trying to make people think is a good way to lock a thread. Ethics in general tends to be very controversial.

We need to stay on topic.
 
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Originally posted by Deja vu:

relax. Its not worth getting all fired up over a post
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Not fired up and not angry......just trying to figure out where you are coming from and what points you are trying to make. We went from the discussion of whether 125 JHPs are enough for hunting deer to whether poor shots on varmints are any different than poor shots on deer to now your injection into the thread of the ethical/unethical use of poisons.
 
Back to the thread where were you aiming on the deer? A liver shot is not far from a gut shot.Now away from the thread shooting a deer between the eyes with a .22 won't kill it (not right away anyhow)anybody who has butchered any livestock knows between the eyes is too low.Go get one of your european mounts and hold it like a deer holds it heads and tell me where a shot between the eyes goes it not into the brain.
 
I agree. In the past when I butchered cows we would shoot them right where the hair on there forehead made a spiral. We would use a 22 short on them. Took them down every time.
 
Originally posted byElkins45:


More deer are taken, (er rather poached) with a .22lr than just about any other round
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How do we know this?
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Maybe the author of the post is just telling us his kill ratio, eh? Otherwise, since hunting deer with a .22LR is illegal in the majority of states where deer hunting is allowed, he is trying to tell us that poachers take more deer than legal hunters. Whadda you think?
 
I had a house adjacent to the Stanislaus National forest. Come hunting season all the deer would be in my neighborhood. You could sometimes hear a .22 go off, and you just knew someone was filling a freezer. All the Elmer Fudds would be in the forest.

Personally I am too lazy to hunt, and If deer tasted better than cow, we would be raising deer instead of cow.
 
You must not be eating the right deer, cause I find mine taste much better than cow.

+1 for the 125 grn 357 on deer. I've been shooting them for years in my Marlin lever carbine and within a hundred yards the deer might as well skin themselves cause they're going in the freezer. Probably killed a dozen deer with it in the last ten years and only had one go further than 30 yards, and it left behind a blood trail that looked like it was put down with a 5 gallon bucket so it wasn't so difficult to track. Hell, until I read this post I had no idea that my bullets weren't as good as the heavier slower bullets :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by GeauxTigers:

Hell, until I read this post I had no idea that my bullets weren't as good as the heavier slower bullets
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Goes to show you what a great source of information the internet is. Hell, till I read posts like these, I had no idea I was one of only a handfull of folks in the world that ever had to trail a deer more than 30 yards.
 
I didn't mean that I have never trailed any deer further than 30 yards, just the ones I've used the 357 on, and that may be a hyperbole, but if it is its not by much. It probably has more to do with shot placement than the bullet itself doing anything magical, I'm just saying I've never had any reason to believe that that particular load was in any way inadequate for deer sized game.
 
I'm just saying I've never had any reason to believe that that particular load was in any way inadequate for deer sized game.
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Nobody here has said anything about it being inadequate. The debate is only if it is the best choice over other options out there. Most 125 gr JHP bullets meant for .357 are for SD/HD use and not large game. They are also designed to expand at velocities much lower than what is produced in carbines. If they work for you, great...... but they are not what I would recommend first when asked for a .357 hunting bullet. There are just too many better options out there
 
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