My wife was in shooting range of an armed robber. What would you do?

[RocketmanVT]

Perhaps.

Charging in and popping off a few rounds in the general direction of the evildoer might make things go sideways.

Then again, one or two well-placed rounds by a citizen would have changed the outcome in numerous situations, such as the tragedies of Luby's, Columbine and Virginia Tech.

I personally could not equivocate in such a predicament, much less look at the victim's family and say, "I could have done something to prevent this horror, but chose to not act."
But that's just my outlook.

 

[JohnKSa]

Take 'im out.

Yup, shoot the guy with the gun—what could go wrong?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtoihMFkj0U
http://media.www.redandblack.com/me....Subject.To.Charges.After.Prank-2566559.shtml
http://www.tampabays10.com/news/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=45731
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/mo...called_out_after_youtube_prank_goes_wrong.php
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070126/ai_n17164287

There was a study done some years ago that released the surprising result that armed citizens shot the "wrong person" less often than the police. It was only surprising until the reason was given. The police generally come on a scene after it's well underway and have to make an immediate assessment of the threat while armed citizens tend to be on the scene from the beginning and know what's going on.

But if we, as armed citizens, choose to insert ourselves into the middle of such scenes we put ourselves in the same situation of having to make snap assessments of threat--and without the training that police officers are given. I'm not saying it's always the wrong thing to do, but it IS a complicated issue and should be treated as such. Trying to reduce it to the level of "shoot him or you're a coward" is hopelessly simplistic and does not do this topic justice.

 

[MyXD40]

The ONLY time you engage the badguy is when your life or limb, or the life or limb of your loved ones is directly threatened. Outside that, you are a test pilot.

This is always the common answer..

..hey..psst..those people over there..you don't know them, but someone loves them too..thats someones wife..o0 thats someones grandpa..theres your next door neighbors grandson..someones brother! o0 theres homeless right there..hehe has has pet flies!

 

[Wildalaska]

MyXD40, based on your posts about how you would handle the situation, and your comments about scenarios in this and other threads, I am sorry to say that I question your maturity to have a firearm.


WildidontwanttobearoundwhenrmaboisonsceneAlaska TM

 

[BikerRN]

As an Off-Duty LEO, here's what I would've done:

Provided for the safety and security of my family
Call 911
Get thee and familia behind cover (see step 1)
Be a good witness

That's it folks, and I have had training. Gunfights are no fun and the battle starts after all the shots have been fired.

Biker

 

[Tanzer]

Well, I, for one, am a combat vet who is sick and bloody tired of people cowering and waiting for the cavalry to arrive and save their sorry asses.

If that was directed at me...When you're ambushed, hiding in the rubble of a demloshed home, your nearest friendly speaking in a language you don't understand, and have them trying to flank you, yeah, you wait for the cavalry while simultaneously shooting blindly over the junk pile you're "cowering" behind and wondering which vest pocket you left that 3x5 of your wife and kids in. My wife is in charge of a state veteran's home, and I often visit them. The whiners, braggers and overall PITA's are the ones who did most of their work in a tent. The ones who were lucky enough not to trip a wire or otherwise meet their demise would rather talk about baseball scores.
My sorry ass did what it was supposed to do - hold the bast**ds off until enough "cavalry" arrived to wipe them out. I suppose I would have died a hero if I stood up, fired away, and yelled some line from a movie. Sorry to disappoint you.

If it's in referral to the OP, and MY WIFE AND KIDS are in that store when you decide to become a one man SWAT team, I will cash in my IRA's to afford the best lawyer possible to put you in the same cell as the perp.

I don't find any cowardess in taking action by taking cover. I haven't met a bulletproof peron yet, only those who think they are. I don't carry with the dream of "cowering" behind a soda machine. Nor do I dream of being on the front page with the headline "HERO" If the SOB drops his guard and I have half a chance, I'll empty my mag in him. When the cops let me out, I'll go kneel in church for an hour or two. OOO.. I suppose that makes me a wimp.

..hey..psst..those people over there..you don't know them, but someone loves them too..thats someones wife..o0 thats someones grandpa..theres your next door neighbors grandson..someones brother! o0 theres homeless right there..hehe has has pet flies!

Play video games.

 

[ActivShootr]

MyXD40, based on your posts about how you would handle the situation, and your comments about scenarios in this and other threads, I am sorry to say that I question your maturity to have a firearm.

+1

Take this personally. You are too gung-ho for your own good. Self defense is exactly that. The delusions of grandeur that you will be the hero and save the day could get you arrested, sued, or possibly killed. In the situation that the OP described, the guy had a rifle. Generally, a rifle has more firepower than YourXD40. I could only describe engaging such a threat as an excersise in futility. Do the SMART thing. Call the cops. They get paid to put themselves in harm's way. The average joe with a CCW permit does not. Take a chill pill Rambo.

 

[Tanzer]

Then again, one or two well-placed rounds by a citizen would have changed the outcome in numerous situations, such as the tragedies of Luby's, Columbine and Virginia Tech.

Credit where credit is due, but this is a different call. BG waks in waving a gun and locking doors - He's going down first chance I can to get at my gun without him noticing.
Man, Why did I quit smoking?????? I'm gonna' go check my car's ashtray for anything over an inch long.

 

[dralarms]

I try and stay out of these, BS threads but I have to say that I would get my family out of there. Period. Call 911 and leave if possible.

Now if I'm in the building and the guy starts shooting, it's another story. I can replace everything I own but I can't replace my family or my life.

Say you go interject yourself into the situation and the guy is shot by you and it turns out he had a daisy bb gun instead of a real rifle. Your screwed by the legal system, plus his family is gonna own everything you did and you never get to own another firearm again.

No thanks, call 911, get my family to saftey and if that's not possible make sure they are safe. Sure be a good witness and get his tag if possible but unless he points his piece at me and mine I'm not shootin at him.

Last night we had a "suicide by cop" situation going on less than 150 yards from my house. Some dipstick wanted to die but was too chicken to do it hisself. I stayed in the house, and called my son who lives behind me and told him to stay away from the rear of his place an d to hit the dirt if he heard shots. Must have been 30 cops there last night. They handled the situation just fine, never herad a gun go off so he didn't want to die as much as he thought. Now I will be watching this guy very close in the future since I now know he is unstable and may still have firearms (might have some hidden, this is the south you know).

 

[Yellowfin]

^ I hope you had said individual committed to a mental hospital. That would help you and him to avoid future problems.

 

[Thunderhawk88]

MyXD40, based on your posts about how you would handle the situation, and your comments about scenarios in this and other threads, I am sorry to say that I question your maturity to have a firearm.

+1

Take this personally. You are too gung-ho for your own good. Self defense is exactly that. The delusions of grandeur that you will be the hero and save the day could get you arrested, sued, or possibly killed. In the situation that the OP described, the guy had a rifle. Generally, a rifle has more firepower than YourXD40. I could only describe engaging such a threat as an excersise in futility. Do the SMART thing. Call the cops. They get paid to put themselves in harm's way. The average joe with a CCW permit does not. Take a chill pill Rambo.

+1000

 

[glockman19]

What would you have done had you been in my wifes situation and armed with your carry or had time to go to your vehicle to get something larger?

Stayed in the Denstist office wiht door locked until either teh guy left or police arrived.

I would ONLY shoot someone if my life or the lives of my immediate family or people directly around me were in iminent danger. by staying in the safety of an office I would look to be a good witness for teh police with disctiption of perp and vehicle.

 

[Tanzer]

Glockman,
I agree, but that's been well established. In response #20, the OP switches the question;

So then the question becomes, in what situation would action be taken. If you were in a hostage situtation? Would you wait until someone was shot first and then act? If you are in the store and you hear gun shots a few isles over do you run for cover while others get shot or do you "Jack Bauer" it? Not that it would be like 24 but just curious to what the gut reaction would be.

 

[Tim Burke]

The police generally come on a scene after it's well underway and have to make an immediate assessment of the threat while armed citizens tend to be on the scene from the beginning and know what's going on.
But if we, as armed citizens, choose to insert ourselves into the middle of such scenes we put ourselves in the same situation of having to make snap assessments of threat-

An excellent point, and, it's worth noting, one that cuts both ways. Not only do you have to sort out the situation when you insert yourself into it, now the responding officers have to sort you out when they show up. It isn't unheard of for off-duty police to get shot by the responding officers.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Post #20 is 180 degrees from OP.If you are in a hostage situation and you have a clean shot,I think you have a reasonable right to take it.If the criminal is leaving the scene and doesn't necessarily even notice you or imminently threaten anybody,then you do not.

Unless you are Matt Dillon and want to call the guy out so he can draw down on you before you act,which is a good way to keep your genes from being passed down the line.

 

[JohnMcD348]

Complete Monday morning Quarterbacking here. If it was possible and I was closer to the car than the door of the dentists office, I would have gotten my family into the car and put as much distance between the incident and my family as possible while calling 911 and reporting the situation. If closer to the front door of the dentists office, I would have taken them back inside and demanded they lock the doors while I called 911 and gotten every living sole out of the area of any windows or exposed areas within site.

Had shots been fired and no other protetive service was within site or on scene and I was armed and resonably within realistci ranges. I may have placed my family back into the office and layed in an appropriate( or as much as possible) ambush site to be able to kill the fellons when they exited the building. And yes, I would have had every intention of killing them, not ordering them to put down the weapons they held, no second chances or discussions of whether they intended on causing anyone any real harm.

But that's just me. No hero here.

 

[Thunderhawk88]

Charging in and popping off a few rounds in the general direction of the evildoer might make things go sideways.

Then again, one or two well-placed rounds by a citizen would have changed the outcome in numerous situations, such as the tragedies of Luby's, Columbine and Virginia Tech.

Those are different situations than the OP. In those situations, before anyone realized what was going on, shots were fired and innocent people were down. In that case then yeas, maybe you should do something to end it.

 

[rampage841512]

Had I been in your wife's situation, once re-entering the dentist's office to call the police I wouldn't have left. I'd have stayed inside with the kids, making sure the door was locked and staying down. If I'd have been caught outside I don't know what I'd have done. It would have depended on this guy's actions as he came out.

 

[Hardtarget]

Tanzer in post 14 had it right. The dentist should have LOCKED THE DOOR!. I don't think going back out into the parking lot is a good idea. What if his getaway does not start? There she is...hostages and keys and a different vehicle. Not good at all.

Mark.

 

[Tanzer]

Had shots been fired and no other protetive service was within site or on scene and I was armed and resonably within realistci ranges. I may have placed my family back into the office and layed in an appropriate( or as much as possible) ambush site to be able to kill the fellons when they exited the building. And yes, I would have had every intention of killing them, not ordering them to put down the weapons they held, no second chances or discussions of whether they intended on causing anyone any real harm.

Shots were fired - you have no idea if anyone was hit, and you can't even be sure it was the BG. What if an undercover cop was in there? What if he put a round in the ceiling to prove his desperation? What if you shoot and the UC guy picks you out as his accomplaice?
Don't get me wrong, I don't feel bad for him, but now you're tied up with the DA for being a vigilante, or being reported as a threat via radio or telephone.