My right to carry?

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I hear you, David. My experience though is that you may be the most dedicated, loyal, effective employee in the corporation, and if there is an officer over your head that needs to be protected from inquiry, or a higher-up's personal friend that needs a job, or they can find somebody cheaper and younger than you, they will do so not by offering to throw a farewell party, but by sending two security guards to your desk unannounced to escort you and your cardboard box of belongings out of the building. The historic covenant between workers and companies has been broken, we are all freelance in effect, and we owe corporations we work for nothing but an honest day's work. I've worked in corporations most of my adult life, and they can write in some litigation/risk management rule about the ability to inspect my car w/o my permission, but I'm not gonna take it seriously. The fact is they're only going in your car if you've already done something wrong. And if they want my urine, or they want DNA samples, or they're not happy because I don't like golf, or won't stop relaying consumer complaints up the chain, I'll move on. These days, if you're a troubled teen and get caught with a nickel bag of weed you can't get scholarships or student aid for life; if you're Halliburton and steal billions from our soldiers and taxes, you get a small fine and don't even lose the government contract. Unfortunately for me, in this economy I haven't been able to make enough for my kids not doing corporate work, but I dream of the day I'm back out of it. Corporate America is a morass of the ignorant and greedy, their rules mean nothing, a man's gotta look up at the stars and into his heart to know what's right.

PS I don't get to keep mine in the car anyway, I cross the border into Jersey and those troopers are not to be messed with, I would be posting in from Rahway State on the prison library computer during my off hours as Bubba's maid, I'm too pretty to do hard time!
 
DA

Thats all well in little letters on that screen infront of you. Death is final. I never got fired and never had any problems after I refused their strong hand tactics. There are alot of EO issues also and if you know your rights and know the law, even if you signed that paper it is not legaly binding.

I was protected by law for retaliation for refusal to be forcefuly searched. I pushed the issue and they were told they would have to call the police and have me arrested for stealing (to get a search warrant), if they were wrong (and they were) then they were open to huge lawsuits that would have been a guaranteed butt load of money for me. Infact a manager was transfered against his will for messin' with me afterwards.

If you know the laws, they are powerfull tools that can and will protect your civil rights, and no company wants to be known as a civil rights violator.

I quit that job along time ago and now I travel the world and meet interesting people. Way more fun....
 
I will be retiring April 1st after 30 yr 3 mo at the same place, and it has been a fairly good company to work for.

Several years ago, a nut job blonde (who I heard personally say she was tired of shooting paper, . . . she wanted to know what it was like to shoot a person) brought her personal .357 into the plant to show to her supervisor.

The supervisor happened to be the son of one of the higher ups, . . . so when the stuff hit the fan over bringing a firearm onto the premises, . . . the new rule hit the boards "No guns at all on company property, at any time, period".

A year or so after that, . . . lo and behold, . . . the company is sponsoring a trap shooting league team. Go figure!!!! Several folks on any given day had their shotty and ammo in the trunk just waiting for the last whistle.

Now, . . . you can have it so long as it is unloaded, . . . in your locked personal vehicle.

Said all that to say: "Check the latest info from the company, . . . maybe something has changed, . . . for your betterment".

May God bless,
Dwight
 
The historic covenant between workers and companies has been broken, we are all freelance in effect, and we owe corporations we work for nothing but an honest day's work.
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No disagreement. I happen to think the "honest day's work" includes being honest.

Thats all well in little letters on that screen infront of you.
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We disagree, Boris. My honor and ethics are far more than little letters, and my word means something important to me. When I agree to take a job I take the job. When I can't follow the rules of the job, I go somewhere else. Sometimes honor goes beyond law.
 
Mugged in the lot

I'm not all that worried as I get off at the same time as about 20 other people. I'm getting older but I'm still 6'02" 220 and most people would think twice. If they are armed I'll let them have my wallet. I'm more concerned about the 20 minutes in a 30mph zone that it takes to get out of the neighborhood.

Then there is the fact that when I took a job there was no such rule and that the rule is flowed down from Europe where freedom is perhaps less free. I did sign an acknowledgement that I was informed and understood the rule. I signed that during a peaceful period that lasted for several years. Also during that time there wasn't any terrorist crap going on. In recent memory there were three convenience stores shut down for wiring money to Mr. Laden and Co.. There is a small section of neighborhood that's now referred to by some as "little Somalia" and often you get dirty looks from these folks. Really torques me off that they move here and act that way. I had some in the Walmart near work eyeballing me and whispering one day and I had had enough. I explained to them that I may be the only US citizen in the store, but I was there the day the store opened. I yelled "This is MY G-D Walmart!". They all scampered off. I'm not racist by any means, but I was brought up to respect others and I expect the same (especially since I was here paying taxes first).

In any case, I will still honor the rule I'm just making the statement that I disagree with it. On days when I carry or am on the way to the range after work I'll park in the street which unfortunately opens my car up to the thieves. About 6 years ago we were heavily staffed and some had to park out there. Six cars got broken into one day. Another time someone took a friends 300ZX dashboard (yes, that's right they broke in and took the screws out) from inside the parking lot but those occasions in the lot have been rare. Numerous car thefts have occurred too. I used to be on the now defunct suggestion committee and proposed cameras or fake cameras in the lot. The idea was shot down by upper management. They park in a different lot that the front office looks out on.

Haha I just remembered back in the late eighties when crack was hitting hard the company hired a well known security firm to man the lot. A woman was mugged on the loading dock. The guy ran past the security guard (big beefy dude, made me look small) who let him pass despite our yelling and his obvious size advantage. A group of us jogged over and asked him why he let the guy go.... He told us that they didn't pay him enough to risk getting hurt. They wouldn't let him carry a weapon so he decided on his first day that he would not be aggresive in any situation that could cause him harm.

There was no rule about us having weapons in our cars back then, but they hired unarmed security in a neghborhood bristling with AK's and Uzi's. We had a dozen chips in new paint in that side of the building back then from gunfire. Every week or two someone would find a spent slug and bring it in. Ahhh the good old days.
 
My company has a no gun rule, also, but when I finally get my CCW license (should be any day now) I intend to carry to and from work. I believe that if the need ever arose for me to use my firearm in self defense, the repercussions from my employer would be secondary to my own well being. All that being said, and the likelihood of defending myself with lethal force being pretty remote, I feel that as long as I am discreet and quiet about my habits none will be the wiser and I will have the comfort of knowing that I have the means for self defense.
 
I see your point JBB. Some would beleive your choice is unethical. We are all entitled to our point of view. I think it's your choice and you have accepted the risk. I also think it is wrong (unethical) for a corporation to tell me what I can have in my own vehicle. I think it's a sign that corporations may have a little too much power in this country.

For me, after 23 years with the same company and no college degree, I think too much is at stake. With my luck.... October: Diagnosed with TY2 Diabetes 20 years too soon.. November: Night before Thanksgiving diagnosed with Diverticulitis no turkey in the hospital for Thanksgiving just jello and water, 20 years too soon (Dad has diabetes, Mom has Diverticulitis, both can be hereditary) January: Lost control for 1-2 seconds on a sudden patch of ice and struck a light pole. Totaled my pickup truck (1st new car I ever bought and it was paid off), now I drive a Neon! I think I'll be cautious about making sure I still have a job.
 
David Armstrong

In post 20 you said the company agrees to pay X amount and only pays Y amount. Well in todays world OT is a NO NO! I can not tell you how many time I saw a manager go into the computer and turn 47 hours into 40.00 so they wouldn't lose a bonus for keeping labor cost down. Even more surprising was how many did NOTHING about it when they got their money stolen from them. That is why I kept a paper record of my time and confronted them every week they did it to me.

Sometimes honor goes beyond law
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I couldn't have said it better myself!!! I have to honor my wife and my kids, If I use lethal force to save my life while breaking rule that is inane, then so be it. At the worst I lose a job, not my LIFE. I can live without a job, and so can my family, and the news would have a good time with that story. I cann't support my family if I am dead, and that no matter what the opinion of anyone person or any law, is the important fact at hand....
 
we have a .45 hole through one of the doors and regularly find slugs in the parking lot!
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Not to be argumentative, but...

How do you know it is a .45 hole through one of the doors, and not a .44, .41, .40, or even a .410 slug hole?

Do you really find slugs in the parking lot? Or do you mean you find empty cartridges (or casings)? Slugs would be the actual bullets laying on the ground (rather than in a wall or car or body). I've been in nasty areas and never seen slugs laying on the ground.

Now to your question. I agree with most other people here, in that if the gun is concealed inside your car, and you don't tell your coworkers about it, no one will know. You are not breaking a law (at least in my state) by disobeying your employer, but typically employers are able to fire if you violate a company policy. If you got fired over it, and had a good lawyer, there's a decent chance in a wrongful termination case, depending on whether you could get the inside of your car to be classified as private property. This is much the same as companies who say you cannot smoke on their property, but you can still do it inside your car.

IANAL, so feel free to ignore me!
 
Hehe... I've grown up around firearms.. I'm from a small timber industry town in Oregon where I could shoot pretty freely.
When I say a slug in the parking lot I'm speaking of copper jacketed pieces of lead, some of which matched the 9mm profile. When I say .45 caliber hole in the door I'm talking about a .458" diameter slug that was pried out of a window casing at the other end of the room. And yes, we measured it (Hence the name Inspector3711, I inspect and measure aircraft parts. I work for the company on one hand and for the FAA on the other). We've had three gun battles in the parking lot during work in the last ten years. One of them happened when a Vietnam vet was working in an out building. He split his chin on the concrete he hit the deck so hard. I witness another one as two guys shot at each other from behind cars in the lot while an employee in the lot was sneaking a smoke during work time. He stood there in shock. Didn't think of being in danger until they both ran off whenthey heard the cops. they each shot two or three rounds and didn't hit each other or a car! A reminder that an automatic pistol with open sites ain't real accurate at 150 feet.
A man was found stabbed to death in the front parking lot one morning. Our maintenance guy came in early one day and found that four guys had broken into the shop. One pulled a knife so he drove them where they wanted to go (from Seattle to Tacoma). They were arrested down the street from where he dropped them thanks to a cell call to 911.
The slugs are usually found on Monday mornings after a weekend at the OK Corral. As I said, the concrete on the side of the building has some pockmarks/chips. We also have people sweep up syringes and condoms from the lot monthly. Oh, as you can imagine we frequently have numerous piles of glass in the lot. The majority have labels that contain the words "Old" and "English".
I've been to Buena Park, Compton, and Oakland on the west coast. I traveled through The Bronx and Harlem every day for 10 days on a business trip and spent some time on the lower east side and I've been to South Boston. I know what a bad neighborhood is.
The neighborhood I work in is in Seattle believe it or not. Things have been changing for the better in recent years, but now with a new gang uprising.......
 
allenomics - "I run a business and don't allow gun carry on person or gun storage on property. The liability is too great."

I'm curious as to what your liability would be if you had licensed carry employees shot dead because they followed your policy and a gunman shot them to death or otherwise injured them on your property.

I think there is a valid liability question raised that when a company disarms otherwise lawfully abiding citizens (particularly those that are licensed by the state to carry firearms) it then assumes the responsibility for their safety. If the company policy can be shown to be either directly, or indirectly, responsible for their being unarmed and unable to defend themselves, then it's reasonable to assume a judge or jury can find the company liable for any deaths or injuries that occur because of those policies.

I know I'd certainly be be inclined to find them guilty. When a company creates a policy that disarms legally (authorized) armed citizens from protecting themselves, I don't see how it could sucessfully argue that it didn't, in effect, assume the liability for their protection and safety.
 
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Computerguysd... I hear ya loud and clear. I'm sure my company is worried about liability (crazy employee with gun) as well. They haven't thought it through though. The brief period (as you can read above) that we had security 10 years ago or more, they were unarmed as well. What would have happened if a neighborhood riot or firefight found it's way into the facility? This is not a new problem. It's been a tough place since I started there in the mid eighties. Not even a alarm system until the mid nineties. We use canned boat horns if there is a fire to this day:eek:
 
I can understand why an employer would have this policy (not that I agree with it).

I think many employers are scared that someday, some employee will go nuts, pull a gun and shoot someone else. They fear that the courts will rule that they were negligent in allowing handguns at work, and bankrupt them with a huge judgement. Now, in my opinion, this is ridiculous, because a policy is not going to prevent a crazy guy from bringing a gun, just like a law saying that no one can own a gun in NYC prevents criminals from carrying them.

Another reason, though, is a different liability. This is where a customer is offended when he/she sees a handgun on an employee and is likely to take their business elsewhere. This is a very legitimate concern, and not one I can argue with. For example, the company I work for routinely takes orders from customers in the millions of dollars. We don't want ANYONE to be offended by anything that might disrupt an order.
 
ghallen,

My point is that in this neighborhood there is a much greater chance of violence ocuuring because of an outsider rather than an employee. We are protecing ourselves from employees but not the criminals. I would agree more if this were a safer area.
 
In post 20 you said the company agrees to pay X amount and only pays Y amount.
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Actually what I said is, "One can only wonder how you would feel if the company were to have the same philosophy. "Yeah, I know we agreed to pay you $25/hr with full benefits, but we decided the agreement isn't to our liking, so we are giving you $8/hr for this last week. Oh, BTW, we also decided not to give you any benefits." I'd imagine you'd be fairly upset (and rightly so) that the company didn't live up to its side of the agreement."
I can live without a job,....
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OK, then, don't take the job and then behave dishonestly and/or dishonorably about it. That is my only point. It is unethical and dishonest to agree to follow rules in order to get money and then knowingly and willingly violate those rules you have agreed to follow.
 
I'm curious as to what your liability would be if you had licensed carry employees shot dead because they followed your policy and a gunman shot them to death or otherwise injured them on your property.
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There would be none. There is/was a pretty good thread on this in the Legal forum, where the variousl doctrines were gone over at length. Might try a search and see what comes up.
 
I would willingly violate any "rule"that willingly violates my RIGHT to pursue LIFE liberty and happiness.

Why someone would follow an inane rule that isn't legaly binding is beyond me.

Sometimes we need to get over the little things and just live life the way we want to. I never fretted violating the rule and so didn't alot of other employees.

If someone wants to lay down and be told how to live, then less power to them, for those that go about life as they want to, then more power to them.
 
Why someone would follow an inane rule that isn't legaly binding is beyond me.
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First, in a number of areas, it is legally binding. Second, one would follow it because they have agreed to do so, and their word means something to them.
Sometimes we need to get over the little things and just live life the way we want to.
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Agreed, but that should not include deceiving others and being dishonest. You can live yourlife any way you want. But if you agree to work for me, you agree to follow my rules. You agree to come in at a certain time, work a certain amount, meet certain standards. If you don't want to do that, fine, but then you shouldn't take the paycheck either.
If someone wants to lay down and be told how to live, then less power to them, for those that go about life as they want to, then more power to them.
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And thus anarchy rules, and there is no law, no honesty, no honor. Not a way I think most want to live. I've dealt with folks who had no honor and I've dealt with folks whose handshake was as good as a written contract. I know which ones I prefer to be around. Just out of curiosity, what other rules do you think it is OK to cheat on if you want to, and do you think the employer should be able to do the same??
 
I know I'd certainly be be inclined to find them guilty.
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computerguysd. I think a jury would find the killer guilty and my policy reasonable and prudent, considering the type of company I operate.

computerguysd, can you understand all sides of the argument, and still be pro 2A? I can.
 
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