My model 93 Mauser bit me!

J

jimbob86

Moderator
Had my right thumb touching the cocking piece when I touched off a round, and the primer was pierced by the pin on firing.... the cocking piece came back and smacked my thumb, drawing blood ..... bad bruise and thumb is stiff a day later. The gun appears to be none the worse for wear. Anybody else had anything like this happen?

I seem to recall Jeff Cooper writing that the right thumb should on the right side of the stock .... now I know a good reason why.
 
"Anybody else had anything like this happen?"

Yep.
Pierced a .303 primer and had the No4 Enfield reset to full cock----after it blew past full cock and raked the sear bent over my thumb.
Bled a little.
I don't believe they put gas relief ports in Mauser bolts until the M98---and they never got around to it in the LE system.
-----krinko
 
If the pierced primer caused this, what are some things that can prevent a re-occurance? This rifle was to be a deer rifle for my 12 y.o. daughter (downloaded - 139gr at 2300 f/sec instead of the 175's at 2400 - of course!), but a gun that bites my little girl would not exist very long.....
 
Had my right thumb touching the cocking piece when I touched off a round, and the primer was pierced by the pin on firing.... the cocking piece came back and smacked my thumb, drawing blood ..... bad bruise and thumb is stiff a day later. The gun appears to be none the worse for wear. Anybody else had anything like this happen?
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I shot case loads of Iraqi 303 Ball and surplus 8mm. This stuff was old and gave high pressures.

I could watch the firing pin in a No 1 Mk III Lithgow rebound from pierced primers and ditto for the K98.

Mauser designed the M98 firing pin shaft to move back about half way and then plug up the cocking piece hole. This prevents gas from going in the shooter's eye.

Both of these actions were designed to protect the shooter and in neither case did case flow down the shaft or the action sides.
 
Check your firing pin protrusion, it should be about .055"-.060". Any longer and you will consistently pierce primers. I have seen Spanish M93s with .080" firing pin protrusion.
I don't believe they put gas relief ports in Mauser bolts until the M98---and they never got around to it in the LE system.
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Nonsense. M93s have a gas relief vent in the side of the receiver to relieve gas from blown cases, as well as vents in the bolt to relieve gas from pierced primers. Not as good as the M98, but they're pretty good for a 120-year old design.

If you don't know, don't make stuff up.
 
Scorch, the gas vent holes weren't put in 93 mausers until they were reworked to 1916 spec. There are some out there that don't have the vents.
 
That's the first I have ever heard of it. I had a DWM 1893 Mauser rifle made in 1908, and it had the vent. I have owned and handled dozens of 1893 Mausers, and they all had the vent. Got documentation?
 
That's the first I have ever heard of it. I had a DWM 1893 Mauser rifle made in 1908, and it had the vent. I have owned and handled dozens of 1893 Mausers, and they all had the vent. Got documentation?
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Bolt Action Rifles, by Frank De Hass, chapter on Models 92, 93, 94, 95 & 96

“Most M93 and M95 Mausers, including the German-made Chilean Mausers, had no provision to divert or vent powder gases….Some M93 Spanish Mausers….have a single gas escape vent hole in the bolt near the rear bottom edge of the left locking lug….”

Maybe the holes you have seen were later modifications. The 03 Hatcher hole is common enough that you would think it was a normal part of production, but most of the bolts with a Hatcher hole were modified after production.
 
My '93 has a hole on the left side of the reciever, I assume to vent gas from a blown case ..... I dont see any holes anywhere in the bolt.

I assume to check firing pin protrusion, I'd take it apart, take the spring out and push the pin as far forward as possible, and then measure ?

shortening the pin should be a whole lot simpler then making it longer.
 
Gases from a ruptured case on a small ring Mauser go back along the bolt, and inside the bolt along the firing pin. If you compare an m98 bolt shroud to small ring mausers you'll see a flange on the m98 that is absent on the earlier small ring mausers.

The flange on the bolt shroud prevents gas from shooting directly back.

The dual gas ports on the underside of the m98 bolt allow the gases that would flow directly back along the bolt to vent downward into the magazine well. If your bolt lacks exhaust ports (some small ring mausers were retrofitted with gas ports in the bolt, some not).

Those two features are important for safety, and the reason that 6.5x55, 7x57, and 8x57 are loaded to low pressure standards in the US, because all those rounds were chambered in small ring mauser rifles.

Jimro
 
Those two features are important for safety, and the reason that 6.5x55, 7x57, and 8x57 are loaded to low pressure standards in the US, because all those rounds were chambered in small ring mauser rifles.
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I had planned on loading light..... these were factory ammo from 1970-something..... I had 139 and 175 grain bullets. The 175's kicked like an angry mule, I had 2 or 3 pierced primers, and the case heads looked like hell......
 
So,suppose this all speaks pretty well for wearing shooting glasses? Especially for that 13 year old little girl someone mentioned?
Once a primer is pierced,the gas cuts the firing pin tip really fast.Once the tip is pitted,it pierces more often.Polishing or replacing the pin is a good idea.
 
I assume to check firing pin protrusion, I'd take it apart, take the spring out and push the pin as far forward as possible, and then measure ?
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To check firing pin protrusion, take the bolt out of the receiver, and turn the bolt shroud counterclockwise 1/4 turn, this will put the firing pin in the fully extended position.

The reason for turning the bolt shroud is that cock-on-close actions retract the firing pin slightly so that it does not stick out of the firing pin hole and interfere with feeding the next round. When you have measured the firing pin protrusion, don't forget to turn the bolt shroud back, or the bolt won't go all the way back into the action.
The flange on the bolt shroud prevents gas from shooting directly back
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That flange is called a "gas shield" for that very reason.
 
So,suppose this all speaks pretty well for wearing shooting glasses? Especially for that 13 year old little girl someone mentioned?
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Of course I was wearing eyepro ......

..... now daughter is afraid of the gun, and that won't promote hunting accuracy..... she'll have to borrow something else this year.

The '93 is accurate enough for me ..... though I don't like the fact that the front sight is tall, made of brass and out there on the very end of the barrel..... seems it won't take much knocking about to move that....

..... I am looking to put an IER scope on the thing, eventually.
 
The reason some of you have a vent hole in the receiver and not in the bolt is that many/most/nearly all countries that used 7x57 Mausers stored their rifles separated from the bolts and converted/updated rifles were paired with random, unmodified bolts by the last person to handle the rifle before you got it. The bolt modification is not hard to do if you have a drill press and enough mechanical aptitude to cut your own toenails. Drilling an oval hole into the receiver is above my paygrade.

Normally, if you are using newish ammo the cause of pierced primers is not excessive firing pin protrusion but something restricting firing pin retraction. The usual culprits are dried cosmolene and little stray bits of sheared off brass in the firing pin hole from reseating primers in rifles with excessive headspace. Normal protrusion should be 0.060 - 0.065" and a simple gauge for verifying that is available from all the usual vendors.
 
Drilling an oval hole into the receiver is above my paygrade.
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The hole in the left side of the reciever is indeed oval shaped.

Normally, if you are using newish ammo the cause of pierced primers is not excessive firing pin protrusion but something restricting firing pin retraction. The usual culprits are dried cosmolene
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Nope and nope.... started clean as a whistle, though it's pretty sooty now, and the ammo, as I posted before was 70's vintage ......

Normal protrusion should be 0.060 - 0.065" and a simple gauge for verifying that is available from all the usual vendors.
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as is a headspace guage....
 
"If you don't know, don't make stuff up."

Thank you Scorch, for the warm welcome to the board.

"Nonsense. M93s have...vents in the bolt to relieve gas from pierced primers."
---Scorch

"Scorch, the gas vent holes weren't put in 93 mausers until they were reworked to 1916 spec///"
---rr2241tx

"I had a DWM 1893 Mauser rifle made in 1908, and it had the vent."
---Scorch

"Most M93 and M95 Mausers, including the German-made Chilean Mausers, had no provision to divert or vent powder gases….Some M93 Spanish Mausers….have a single gas escape vent hole in the bolt near the rear bottom edge of the left locking lug..."
"Maybe the holes you have seen were later modifications."
---Slamfire

You know what I'm thinking, Scorch---but I believe it's against Forum policy for me to write it.
Type a retraction and I'll stop thinking it.
-----krinko

PS The two large gas escape ports on the M98 Mauser do not vent "downward into the magazine well"---when the bolt is in the "fired" position, these holes are in the left side lug channel and vent out through the thumb cut for charger loading.
-----k.
 
You know what I'm thinking, Scorch---but I believe it's against Forum policy for me to write it.
Type a retraction and I'll stop thinking it.
-----krinko
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This probably won't make you stop thinking it, then.

Many people get on this and other forums and post all kinds of nonsense and outright lies. I try to share my 30+ years of knowledge and experience freely, and try not to offend anyone, but occasionally I will point out to someone that what they posted is misleading or erroneous information. If someone can offer references to support their information, I will respect that and investigate it. If I am wrong, I generally say so. I think in this case I will refrain from doing so. There seems to be enough information in the thread to indicate thet there is plenty of disagreement on whether or not the 1893 Mauser had gas vents in the bolt, and plenty of opinions about when or if they were added.

Oh, and just to clarify things: I generally don't care what people think of me. I am sincere and offering help to people who ask, and am not trying to come across as anyone special. So think what you want. I can't change you or what you think of others, only you can change what you think of people. If what you think bothers you, stop thinking it.
 
Me myself thought this was a very informative thread....I had never considered the cocking piece on the old bolt guns might get blown back and causing injury....Now I'm going to make sure that my thumb is not in a position to be struck by the cocking piece...

Thanks to all contributers to this thread
 
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