muzzle loader ?
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maillemaker
New member
Muzzle loading firearms are obsolete compared to modern cartridge firearms in that modern cartridge firearms are faster and easier to load, carry more ammunition, and, shooting smokeless powder, do not reveal one's position nor obscure the target on shooting.
By the 1890s, cartridge firearms were the clear successor to muzzle loaders.
There were and are carbines in 58 caliber and they shoot quite accurately. I'm better with my Richmond Carbine in .58 than I am with my P1853 in .58. Carbines, being shorter, tend to be easier to wield.
Many people still shoot these arms, as evidenced here and in organizations like the North-South Skirmish Association.
See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp1qho8DLuw
maillemaker
New member
I'm not aware of any .58 caliber smoothbores. Not saying there weren't any.
The British Pattern 1853 Enfield is a .58 caliber rifled musket, as are its derivatives the P58 and P60. The US 1855 and 1861 Springfields are likewise .58 caliber rifled muskets. Carbine length variants are likewise.
The model 1842 Smoothbore was the last military-produced smoothbore for the USA and it was .69 caliber, as was the 1816 before it.
Some .69 caliber smoothbores were rifled to convert to rifled muskets.
Steve
Hawken
AFAIK....the Hawken brothers built rifles. The pattern that they created is much imitated by modern manufacturers. It is entirely possible that someone took a modern Hawken style rifle, removed the rifled barrel and bought a .58 caliber smoothbore drop-in barrel from a company like Green Mt. Barrels.
Who is "they"?
Pete
AFAIK....the Hawken brothers built rifles. The pattern that they created is much imitated by modern manufacturers. It is entirely possible that someone took a modern Hawken style rifle, removed the rifled barrel and bought a .58 caliber smoothbore drop-in barrel from a company like Green Mt. Barrels.
Who is "they"?
Pete
there were smoothbores made in near every gage /cal I would have to look but if i recall in In RCA , volume II there is a smoothbore 40 cal Baum rifle with 44 inch barrel .
I do recall there being a note stating that it wasn’t known if it started life as a smoothbore or if someone reamed it out .
Its not hard to find a 58 in rifled bore , others have pointed that out .
Rifled bores go through much the same calibers as smoothbores do . For the Hawkins rifle ,off the top of my head I want to say Ashley had his rifle made in 60 or was it 62 cal ???. IE a basically a rifled 20 gage
bedbugbilly
New member
The OP has posted a pretty general question.
.58 is not "dead" by any means. Either in smoothbore or rifle.
Rifles . . if it was dead, N-SSA would be in existence as most rifled muskets are .58 caliber - I've shot rifled muskets for 50 years. But . . those take a "minie ball".
If you are talking round ball . . . I have know quite a few who have 58 caliber smoothbore trade guns. Very versatile for both round ball or shot.
If you're talking rifle . . I also have know quite a few who have 58 caliber round ball rifles. Not only Hawken style but full stock Kentucky style rifles as well. While I've owned a few "production" guns, most of mine have been custom built by myself over the years. And . . you'll see a number of customer built rifles in that caliber.
Carbine? Again . . what are you referring to? A military style such as the Parker Hale .58 caliber rifles or a "civilian" style which is equivalent to a "short rifle"?
As far as I'm concerned . . no caliber is "obsolete" . . . especially in muzzle loading. All you need is a mold of the right size and you are all set to go.
If you are hunting . . . you choose the rifle/caliber that is appropriate for the game you are hunting. 58 caliber? An excellent choice for large game . . deer, small bear, etc. But if you are going to hunt squirrels with it . . yes . . . I guess you could say it's "obsolete" . . . unless you want to shoot 'em and clean 'em at the same time.But then again, I wouldn't be choosing my 36 caliber to hunt bear either . . . . doing that might make "ME" obsolete!
.58 is not "dead" by any means. Either in smoothbore or rifle.
Rifles . . if it was dead, N-SSA would be in existence as most rifled muskets are .58 caliber - I've shot rifled muskets for 50 years. But . . those take a "minie ball".
If you are talking round ball . . . I have know quite a few who have 58 caliber smoothbore trade guns. Very versatile for both round ball or shot.
If you're talking rifle . . I also have know quite a few who have 58 caliber round ball rifles. Not only Hawken style but full stock Kentucky style rifles as well. While I've owned a few "production" guns, most of mine have been custom built by myself over the years. And . . you'll see a number of customer built rifles in that caliber.
Carbine? Again . . what are you referring to? A military style such as the Parker Hale .58 caliber rifles or a "civilian" style which is equivalent to a "short rifle"?
As far as I'm concerned . . no caliber is "obsolete" . . . especially in muzzle loading. All you need is a mold of the right size and you are all set to go.
If you are hunting . . . you choose the rifle/caliber that is appropriate for the game you are hunting. 58 caliber? An excellent choice for large game . . deer, small bear, etc. But if you are going to hunt squirrels with it . . yes . . . I guess you could say it's "obsolete" . . . unless you want to shoot 'em and clean 'em at the same time.But then again, I wouldn't be choosing my 36 caliber to hunt bear either . . . . doing that might make "ME" obsolete!
See photo of results of .58cal musketoon on cow elk. You don't lose that much velocity in the carbine. You could also use FFFg powder for the short barreled rifle. The 58s have less consistant bore diameters than the 54s. There are more options in projectiles for the 54s whereas the 58s are pretty much minie ball or patched round ball guns. A .562, .570 or .575 PRB will smack down anything. I shot 90grs FFG under a 577611 530 gr heavily skirted minie through that elk. I've also gotten two deer with the 757213-OS over 90grs FFg in my Zouave. I have yet to recover a projectile. However you need to sight a minie about 5" high at 50yds to have it hit right on at 100yds.
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Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
I have a 58 big bore T/C. Having a 1-48 twist it shoots everything reasonably well. Great 50 yrd rifle. Shoots a huge 280 gr P/ball that's got some real noticeable thump on the receiving end.