I'd agree with Unlicensed Dremel. A no-frills 22" 20 gauge pump means not having to train her how to lower an exposed hammer. I bet if you look around at your LGS used rack you'll find a Mossberg or 870 that fits this description. Plus a nice 20 gauge can always double as a basic bird hunting rig.
Multi Purpose Rifle
- Thread starter BigMikey76
- Start date
A 20 gauge for deer at 100 yards?
Good luck.
Why "Good luck"?
With rifled sabot slugs 100 yards isn't beyond the range of a shotgun anymore. I know that they are generally fired from a rifled shotgun, but if you have a smoothbore, you can still get them to shoot pretty tight by using a rifled choke, effectively making your fowling piece into a big game taker at distances not normally associated with shotguns.
http://www.choke-tube.com/proddetail.asp?prod=19477
Jimro
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
100 yards isn't a huge stretch even for a decent smooth-bore gun, a good rifled gun (not many, but some) can do 200.
There was a fella here a couple years back that used a shotgun in Africa, taking game up to 175 yards.
Trouble with shotguns is, IME, they take the whole "picky about ammo" thing to a whole new level never seen in rifles. A gun will shoot 2-3" at 100 with one slug and literally 14"+ with another.
There was a fella here a couple years back that used a shotgun in Africa, taking game up to 175 yards.
Trouble with shotguns is, IME, they take the whole "picky about ammo" thing to a whole new level never seen in rifles. A gun will shoot 2-3" at 100 with one slug and literally 14"+ with another.
I won't say that my experience with rifles is that much better, I once saw my Savage 10 Tactical shoot an 8" group with Federal 180gr soft point ammunition. It was discouraging, but went back to grouping very tight with other loads.
Still, we are talking about a set of compromises on cost, recoil, and performance on game. You can't have everything, unfortunately.
Jimro
A 20 gauge rifled slug has more energy at 100 yards that a .357 Magnum has at the muzzle, and only about 20 ft-lbs less than a .44 Magnum has at the muzzle.
On edit, both were recommended by you for deer at 100 yards.
https://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=139
On edit, both were recommended by you for deer at 100 yards.
https://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=139
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Besides punching a hole that STARTS at 0.625" and expands to in excess of 1" sometimes.
kcub, these ain't your daddy's shotgun slugs anymore.
We're talking about a 260gr 62 caliber, ballistic tip bullet with a MV of 1850fps... that's near 2,000 ft/lbs at the muzzle... and still 1,200 at 100 yards.... and an exit hole that's going to be darn near or over an inch.
Aside from the guy who needs to shoot hundreds of yards, a shotgun with modern slugs in rather dramatic over-kill on deer. 100 yards is no problem in terms of accuracy or power.
kcub, these ain't your daddy's shotgun slugs anymore.
We're talking about a 260gr 62 caliber, ballistic tip bullet with a MV of 1850fps... that's near 2,000 ft/lbs at the muzzle... and still 1,200 at 100 yards.... and an exit hole that's going to be darn near or over an inch. Aside from the guy who needs to shoot hundreds of yards, a shotgun with modern slugs in rather dramatic over-kill on deer. 100 yards is no problem in terms of accuracy or power.
I actually agree with this, but the OP's listed considerations of: low recoil home defense and big game hunting don't leave a whole bunch of options, so you have to prioritize the considerations somehow.
Home defense with a 30-30 is doable, and it's a better hunting option but the recoil from a 7.5 pound rifle shooting 150 or 160gr bullets is only on par with a reduced recoil load from a 6.5lb 20 gauge. Load it with Remington's reduced recoil 30-30 load and felt recoil becomes WAY less, but my personal bias is for shotguns for home defense.
A 44 Mag carbine has slightly more recoil energy still, although the recoil velocity is just a tad less. Load that same 44 Mag carbine with 44 Special loads, and recoil becomes really tame, about a third of even reduced recoil 20 gauge. Not as good as a 30-30 for hunting in terms of range, but regular ammo is cheap and 44 special loads are available.
Of course you have to ask, which will be easier to use for home defense? A shotgun or a lever action rifle? I don't know, but I think it's worth having the conversation. All of these options will work, just depends on how you prioritize the considerations.
Jimro
My 44 mag/special Henry big boy has a brass receiver and octagon barrel. It's a full pound heavier than my 357/38 big boy steel with a round barrel. Neither has appreciable recoil unless you get into extremely heavy, over pressured bear loads. Both have 20" barrels and 10 round magazines. I still think either fills the OPs requirements better than any 20 gauge shotgun or any other single gun.
It's hard to beat a 12 gauge shotgun for versatile utility.
That said, although I don't own one, a Ruger or Steyr Scout rifle is supposed to be a general purpose rifle.
Mine is a Marlin 336 straight stock made in 1962, 30-30, with ghost ring sights.
Colonel Cooper said a general purpose rifle should be capable of killing animals of a weight of 300 kilos ( if I remember correctly ) at reasonable ranges. My 30-30 may fall a bit short of that beyond about 50 meters or so on game that big.
That said, although I don't own one, a Ruger or Steyr Scout rifle is supposed to be a general purpose rifle.
Mine is a Marlin 336 straight stock made in 1962, 30-30, with ghost ring sights.
Colonel Cooper said a general purpose rifle should be capable of killing animals of a weight of 300 kilos ( if I remember correctly ) at reasonable ranges. My 30-30 may fall a bit short of that beyond about 50 meters or so on game that big.
joe sixgun
New member
Yes, Mossberg 500 20 ga. Or Remington 870. You can get a number of different loads for home defense, even some with reduced recoil. And they WILL kill deer at 100 yards. The currently available slugs are amazing. Not sure if they offer the 20 ga. in a combo with two barrels, but I know they do in 12 ga.
With the right load; Deer, Hog, Bear, Ducks, Grouse Rabbits, etc.
If I knew positively my home was going to be invaded I would get out my 12 Ga Win M1300 Turkey Gun, remove the plug, and load up with #6 shot magnums (my turkey load
...the only thing is I would have only 5 shots without an extended mag.
If I knew it was going to be multiple assailants it would be my PTR32 or SKS.
But you can load a SG fairly quick so have to have a stash of shells nearby.
If I knew positively my home was going to be invaded I would get out my 12 Ga Win M1300 Turkey Gun, remove the plug, and load up with #6 shot magnums (my turkey load
...the only thing is I would have only 5 shots without an extended mag.If I knew it was going to be multiple assailants it would be my PTR32 or SKS.
But you can load a SG fairly quick so have to have a stash of shells nearby.
No one disputes the power of a 12 gauge but they have too much recoil to fit the OP's requirements.
I've shot pumpkins with a Thompson machinegun and they hold up pretty well to a 50 round drum of 45ACP. Thursday I fired some 357 HSM Bear loads (180 grain flatnose) at a pumpkin with my Henry and pieces of it were everywhere within a 20 yard radius. I'm not saying that's a good home defense round; I'd opt for 125 to 158 JHP. Just illustrating that the 357 from a rifle is no slouch. The mousiest woman can handle a lever carbine in 357, 44, or 45 Colt with no problem and no recoil. If you take her out shooting some cans she will love the gun, I guaranty and so will you.
A 20 gauge might work but why have < 5 shots when you can so easily have 10? Besides what are you going to do to get a shotgun that fits her, get some youth model? Now it doesn't fit the OP and is useless for bird hunting, skeet, or anything else you might want to do with a shotgun; heck even deer hunting.
I've shot pumpkins with a Thompson machinegun and they hold up pretty well to a 50 round drum of 45ACP. Thursday I fired some 357 HSM Bear loads (180 grain flatnose) at a pumpkin with my Henry and pieces of it were everywhere within a 20 yard radius. I'm not saying that's a good home defense round; I'd opt for 125 to 158 JHP. Just illustrating that the 357 from a rifle is no slouch. The mousiest woman can handle a lever carbine in 357, 44, or 45 Colt with no problem and no recoil. If you take her out shooting some cans she will love the gun, I guaranty and so will you.
A 20 gauge might work but why have < 5 shots when you can so easily have 10? Besides what are you going to do to get a shotgun that fits her, get some youth model? Now it doesn't fit the OP and is useless for bird hunting, skeet, or anything else you might want to do with a shotgun; heck even deer hunting.
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I don't disagree that a lever action can meet all the requirements, especially with reduced power/reduced recoil loads for the OP's wife.
Home defense is a tricky subject. Shotguns have the added benefit of projectiles that lose energy much more rapidly than spin stabilized bullets, which may or may not be a concern to the OP. We just don't know what his living situation is like.
Personally I'd prefer a 30-30 lever action rifle to a 44mag/spcl for hunting, but only because of the range advantage on the backside, not a lethality consideration on the near side. Of course long shots aren't the norm, so it might not be a necessary capability for the OP. And I've gone hunting a lot more than I've ever had my home invaded, but I don't know the OP's situation regarding that.
Jimro
I'd look for a Marlin .30-30 in good shape in pawn shops in your area. They make reduced recoil loads for .30-30 too.
IMO given your requirements that is what I would choose. You could easily take game at 200 or even 300 yards with that rifle and your wife could dispatch a small gang of girl scouts who wont get off your porch with reduced recoil .30-30.
IMO given your requirements that is what I would choose. You could easily take game at 200 or even 300 yards with that rifle and your wife could dispatch a small gang of girl scouts who wont get off your porch with reduced recoil .30-30.
silverbullet6oh
New member
Just a thought
BigMikey76 said
I know you said "not likely", but I would think an AR-15 would fill the need. Very accurate at 100 yards, yes you can effectively kill a deer with them , great for home defense and it would b easy for the wife to handle too. You can buy a complete upper and complete lower for under $500 and have a fantastic mid length. Just a thought.
BigMikey76 said
I know you said "not likely", but I would think an AR-15 would fill the need. Very accurate at 100 yards, yes you can effectively kill a deer with them , great for home defense and it would b easy for the wife to handle too. You can buy a complete upper and complete lower for under $500 and have a fantastic mid length. Just a thought.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
I'll side with the OP. 410 is a handy home defense firearm. Simple single shot break open shotgun having a full choke is undoubtedly the easiest long gun to train another in its using. Frankly: 410 2-1/2" slug will change a intruders mind about proceeding with his intentions.__"No doubt about that. Especially so when He has to plug the hole with his own finger."
As far as a deer hunting firearm.. 410 is marginal for distant shooting.. But for those who shot theirs well. 20-25 yards it will indeed drop a reasonable size deer with a single slug thru the animals ribs or hitting square & center that white patch seen on the deer_s neck below its lower jaw. I've seen two deer in my life time that were harvested with 410s. One of the two. I witness the event. Surprised: the you know what _/ / / / out of me that such a little shotgun pellet could take a large standing still Minnesota 8-pt at 21-22-yards. And drop the animal on the spot right there and then. Just my opinion y'll.
As far as a deer hunting firearm.. 410 is marginal for distant shooting.. But for those who shot theirs well. 20-25 yards it will indeed drop a reasonable size deer with a single slug thru the animals ribs or hitting square & center that white patch seen on the deer_s neck below its lower jaw. I've seen two deer in my life time that were harvested with 410s. One of the two. I witness the event. Surprised: the you know what _/ / / / out of me that such a little shotgun pellet could take a large standing still Minnesota 8-pt at 21-22-yards. And drop the animal on the spot right there and then. Just my opinion y'll.