Multi Purpose Rifle

B

BigMikey76

New member
Hey folks. I find myself in search of a couple of different long guns for a couple of different needs. My problem is that I can barely afford one.

Need #1 Home defense
I am thinking shotgun. Specifically, I am thinking a 410, because it needs to be something my wife can handle easily, and she is pretty recoil shy.

Need #2 Hunting
I am looking for something that will be good for whitetails at short distances, not much beyond 100 yards.

It also needs to be simple. I am not likely to buy anything with interchangeable barrels, etc.

This has led me to the Rossi Circuit Judge (the one with the wood stock, not the goofy looking plastic "tactical" version). 410/.45LC out of a 16" barrel. It looks good on paper, but does it perform? Does anyone have specific experience with it?
 
I think you would be better served with a used 30-30 Winchester and a used, police-trade-in revolver in 38 Special. With One caveat: handguns are not for everyone. They are easily pointed at oneself. Any number of people have shot themselves in the foot. But with adequate training and regular practice, a revolver can be as safe as any firearm and one of the most reliable. 38 Special is one of the less expensive centerfire handgun cartridges, but nowhere near as cheap as 22 to shoot. If the gun is to be fired a lot and ammo cost is a factor, then a 22 caliber revolver makes a lot of sense, even if the gun costs more initially as it will be much cheaper to practice a lot. The more you shoot, the better and safer you will be. While the 22 is not powerful enough for a true combat weapon, it is equally effective as the larger calibers in its deterrent value, in the sense that no burglar wants to risk being shot. And make no mistake; the 22LR handgun is a deadly, and serious weapon.
 
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Thanks, Pathfinder. I should have mentioned that handguns are covered. I have a PT 111 G2 and a CZ P-07. I CC both of them, and whichever one I am not carrying at the time doubles as a home defense gun. I want to add a 410 as a "hunker down and keep it pointed at the bedroom door" gun for my wife, and if it can also fill the need of short range deer hunting, so much the better.
 
Well, for home defense and hunting and economy I wouldn't recommend the Rossi.

I'd look for a used pump shotgun in 20 gauge for low recoil options. The lighter 20 gauge loads are very mild for a shotgun. Specifically for your wife in home defense the Winchester reduced recoil buckshot is a 7/8 load at 980 fps which in a 6.5 lb shotgun recoils (9.5 ft/lbs at 9.7 fps) the same as a 3" 410 launching an 11/16 load at 1135 fps from a 5.5 lb shotgun (9.5 ft/lbs at 10.5 fps)

With 45 Colt being the center fire option for the Rossi, I'd say that putting slugs in a 20 gauge shotgun will do you for pretty much any range you have business hunting with a 45 colt. Slugs from a shotgun are reliable game getters within their range of accuracy, and I'd rather have a shotgun than a 45 Colt carbine for most hunting but that's a personal preference.

Gander Mountain has a new Circuit judge listed at 650. I'd say it's a good possibly you could find a used pump shotgun and still have enough left over for an economy hunting rifle (like a break action single shot or used lever action 30-30).

I hope my thoughts are helpful.

Jimro
 
Given the market for ARs and AKs and such, the hock shops are full of bolt-action hunting rifles. Generally, they have at most one-half of the asking price invested, which allows plenty of room for bargaining.

100-yard deer rifle? Why worry about that? Anything in the .243 to .308 range of common cartridges would do quite well.

I agree with Jimro's comments about a 20-gauge.
 
I would agree with the .30-30. I've often thought that they're overlooked as defensive carbines.

Another thought is maybe something like the SKS? I prefer rifles to shotguns for home defense and I think an SKS is capable of both for sure. I prefer rifles to shotguns for home defense (having the option to choose both, I keep my semi-auto carbines loaded). It's my personal opinion that a .410 doesn't pack enough shot to have enough of an advantage to justify the size and bulk when there are better rifle options available. A .410 with buckshot will certainly do the job, I just don't think it's the best option to do the job in the size available.

Something like a Mini-14 or Mini-30 might fill the role if you could afford it. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with my VZ-58 at that distance and it stays loaded in the safe for house duty, but I have the feeling that's more "tactical" than you're looking for
 
So, not a lot of love for the Circuit Judge, I see. I understand that there are other ways to achieve my goals, but what is it about the Circuit Judge that makes it a non option for you? Is there some flaw I haven't found, or a shortcoming I am overlooking, or is it just a matter of personal preference?
 
I agree with pathfinder and Dakota.potts, the 30/30 is overlooked as a home defense rifle, if funding is critical a good lever action would be good, or the mini 14.
 
Truth be told most guns are made for specific purposes. Those that try to do more than one purpose usually don't do anything well. If u have kids in your home rifles are not preferred because they usually penetrate thru multiple walls before stopping but they are great for hunting. Shotguns are great hunting tools for birds, small game, and short range big game. They are also great for home defense. But 100 yards is difficult unless you have a rifled slug barrel. You can purchase Shotguns with multiple barrels and this is probably your best option. Short barrel for home defense and longer rifled barrel for hunting.
 
I'm not knocking the Circuit Judge as its a good close range rifle. A little goofy looking but comfortable and effective inside of 100yds. I'm also going to recommend a good 20ga pump. You could find a 400-500 Remington 870 pump and get a extra barrel for slugs (if you wanted) and have a effective HD/hunting shotgun. Todays 20ga's are no slouch. They could take 150-200yd shots on deer with the right ammo.
 
Many 30-30s have some recoil and penetration is too much for home defense.

I'd get a lever rifle in 357/38 or 44 mag/special. Either will both suffice for home defense and deer hunting up to 100 yards. 357 is better for defense and 44 is better for hunting deer at a hundred yards. 357/38 ammo will be cheaper.

I recommend the American made Henry big boy, steel if you want the lightest weight, brass if you want more heft for recoil control but you'll only need that for the very heaviest 44 magnum bear loads.

I've got them both and I totally love them, a way better gun than a circuit judge and way more fun to just shoot at cans or what have you.
 
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but what is it about the Circuit Judge that makes it a non option for you? Is there some flaw I haven't found, or a shortcoming I am overlooking, or is it just a matter of personal preference?
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There is the matter of personal preference of course, but I'm not a fan of putting a long barrel on a revolver action with that gap at the rear of the barrel. There is a performance penalty when you don't have a sealed system from the chamber to the bore. My personal opinion is that if you are working with a 45 Colt or 410 Shotgun, you should probably wring out every bit of performance that you can.

Also, accuracy reviews have been varied: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-624261.html and http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/5/22/the-rossi-circuit-judge/ Although the American Rifleman article only tested at 25 yards, so that covers up a multitude of sins that can pop up at longer ranges.

Still, even 1" at 25 yards is still a 4 MOA rifle, and I'd rather have a 30-30 for hunting, most 30-30s in good condition are better than 4 MOA rifles with even factory ammo.

Don't get me wrong, it's a neat little firearm. I just don't think it is what I would recommend someone on a budget buy.

Jimro
 
If you have a thing for revolver carbines the Rossi is nice, but imo a 'youth model' pump-action 20 gauge is perhaps the best multi-purpose gun you can have and they are pretty affordable, and very effective for all purposes.

Although accuracy at 100 yards is going to be a bit harder to get with one, but still plenty of people use one with slugs to hunt at shorter distances.
 
I'm not a fan of putting a long barrel on a revolver action with that gap at the rear of the barrel. There is a performance penalty when you don't have a sealed system from the chamber to the bore. My personal opinion is that if you are working with a 45 Colt or 410 Shotgun, you should probably wring out every bit of performance that you can
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Now that is something I had not thought about. For the 410 side of things, I don't think it would be a problem, since the longest straight shot distance in my house is not more than about 20 feet, but for the .45LC vs. deer side of the equation, it might be a deal breaker. Back to the drawing board, I guess.
 
Gander Mountain has a new Circuit judge listed at 650. I'd say it's a good possibly you could find a used pump shotgun and still have enough left over for an economy hunting rifle (like a break action single shot or used lever action 30-30).
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Wow, those are that expensive?

I did a quick look at Cabelas, you can get a Mossberg 20 ga pump for ~$300 and a Savage Axis bolt rifle for $300

That combined is under the cost of the Rossi, and leaves you a few bucks left over for glass for the Savage.
 
Wow, those are that expensive?
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Not if you shop around. I found one online for $450 or so, which is why I was looking at it. I still like the way it looks, and I may get it some day, but I'll probably get something else, for now.
 
Get a Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge, with 22" bbl. Pump gun. Can shoot slugs at large game - good to 60 yards or so. Home defense - perfect for that.


I did a quick look at Cabelas, you can get a Mossberg 20 ga pump for ~$300 and a Savage Axis bolt rifle for $300

That combined is under the cost of the Rossi, and leaves you a few bucks left over for glass for the Savage.
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Yes, this. Get the 20 gauge FIRST, for both purposes, then add the Savage Axis (or better yet, the T/C Venture) later.

The Circuit Judge is interesting, but has many problems: Cylinder gap blast (yeah I know, there's that little "tab", but you could still singe some arm hairs), cheap crappy sights for the cost of the gun, and most importantly, shallow rifling that is going to cause terrible accuracy without handloading oversized .452+ bullets in .45 Colt. You ain't gonna get satisfactory accuracy with off the shelf ammo.
 
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Many 30-30s have some recoil and penetration is too much for home defense.

I'd get a lever rifle in 357/38 or 44 mag/special. Either will both suffice for home defense and deer hunting up to 100 yards. 357 is better for defense and 44 is better for hunting deer at a hundred yards. 357/38 ammo will be cheaper....
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I was thinking .357 carbine when I read the first post. Depending on the brand, they can be handier than most other rifles, recoil is very manageable (usually less than half of a reduced recoil 20 gauge load), and, with the right ammo, it can reach out to 100 yards for deer. Initial cost of the gun might be the biggest obstacle. A Henry or Marlin will be around $600. Rossi 92s aren't too expensive, and their short stocks might be good for your wife. I don't know how well they'd work for hunting though.
 
The Rossi isn't too bad, you might get one that's ok out of the box and you might not. Steve Young of Steve's Gunz says they are about a 70% gun but then he makes a living finishing them.

I can't stand the safety so then you at least have to get that plugged or replaced with Steve's peep. But then you need the part to plug the old rear sight. And then...

Are you getting the picture yet? By the time you go the Rossi route you could have saved time and money by just buying the Henry Big Boy to start with.
 
Yes, I've heard that the Rossi 92's greatly benefit from some extra work. After I shouldered one in the store and realized how terribly the short, crescent-shaped stock fit me, I never gave them any more consideration.
 
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