44capnball
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Whatever it was Bill Clinton called himself, he wasn't a born again Christian by any stretch.
Much ado about Huckabee..
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Whatever it was Bill Clinton called himself, he wasn't a born again Christian by any stretch.
Unregistered
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I don't claim to know what is in another man's soul. Born again Christians are still sinners.
Thunderhawk88
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Really? Please tell us why......
The Bible instructs those who are born again to make public declarations of their faith. Water baptism, for example, is one of those declarations. Simply telling others that you are born again is another; Mr. Huckabee is an example of that.
What did Bill Clinton ever do, or say in public, that would lead you to believe that he was born again?
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He is a southern Baptist, which required water baptism publicly. If you are a southern Baptist, you are, by definition, a born again christian.
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No, its absolutely true. If you are a southern Baptist, you are be definition a born again Christian. In fact, any Christian who believes the Bible is the literal word of God would have to be born again. This assumes, however, that you are actually practicing your religion, and not simply using affiliation with a church to further your political agenda. I don't know, or claim to know, what Clinton's intentions were by saying he was a southern Baptist. Maybe he as sincere, and subsequently sinned, which certainly is possible, or maybe he was just lying in an attempt to look more acceptable to southern Christians.
The following quote is taken directly from the Baptist Faith and Message:
"Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace. "
This is based directly on the Bible, which states:
" Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
The following quote is taken directly from the Baptist Faith and Message:
"Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace. "
This is based directly on the Bible, which states:
" Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
I hate to say this....or not. But I was raised what they use to call a Hard Rock Baptist, and the statement is true.
But, with that aside. What about the several Presidents that were Masons. Nothing happened. Why are you worried? Heck, Jimmy Carter was about as religious as they come, so now we are not a religious state. Religion has nothing to do with the real issue. It's all about ability to lead this country...period.
on the topic of being concerned whether a presidential candidate is religious or not, I contend it's irrelevant and outlandish "if one is trying to argue that would make the person push us towards a theocracy". And to provide the necessary proof, here's a list I found of each of our past President's religious affiliations: (we've had a Quaker and a Jehovah's Witness. wow)
# President Religion
1 George Washington Episcopalian
2 John Adams Congregationalist (raised); Unitarian
3 Thomas Jefferson raised Episcopalian; later no specific denomination
held Christian, Deist, Unitarian beliefs
4 James Madison Episcopalian (deist?)
5 James Monroe Episcopalian (deist?)
6 John Quincy Adams Unitarian
7 Andrew Jackson Presbyterian
8 Martin Van Buren Dutch Reformed
9 William Henry Harrison Episcopalian
10 John Tyler Episcopalian (deist)
11 James Knox Polk Presbyterian; Methodist
12 Zachary Taylor Episcopalian
13 Millard Fillmore Unitarian
14 Franklin Pierce Episcopalian
15 James Buchanan Presbyterian
16 Abraham Lincoln raised Baptist; later no specific denomination (deist)
17 Andrew Johnson Christian (no specific denomination)
18 Ulysses S Grant Presbyterian; Methodist
19 Rutherford B. Hayes Presbyterian; Methodist (?)
20 James A. Garfield Disciples of Christ
21 Chester A. Arthur Episcopalian
22 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
23 Benjamin Harrison Presbyterian
24 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
25 William McKinley Methodist
26 Theodore Roosevelt Dutch Reformed; Episcopalian
27 William Howard Taft Unitarian
28 Woodrow Wilson Presbyterian
29 Warren G. Harding Baptist
30 Calvin Coolidge Congregationalist
31 Herbert Hoover Quaker
32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt Episcopalian
33 Harry S. Truman Southern Baptist
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower River Brethren; Jehovah's Witnesses; Presbyterian
35 John F. Kennedy Catholic
36 Lyndon B. Johnson Disciples of Christ
37 Richard M. Nixon Quaker
38 Gerald Ford Episcopalian
39 Jimmy Carter Baptist (former Southern Baptist)
40 Ronald Reagan Disciples of Christ; Presbyterian
41 George H. W. Bush Episcopalian
42 William Jefferson Clinton Baptist
43 George W. Bush Methodist (former Episcopalian)
The point is, all of them have been Christians in some manner or another. The Adams's and others at our inception did call themselves Unitarian, or Deists, and it seems that it wasn't a desire to "not" be a Christian, but a concern over whether they could truly trust in the accuracy of the texts they had at that time. Considering the view our founders would have had of Catholicism and the Church of England, one can understand they would have some distrust in texts that had their origins with these groups. At that time, there were no were near the 24000+ full and partial manuscripts and letters we have today that allow us to critically evaluate ancient texts for accuracy and validity. With today's sources, I suspect those men would be any one of a number of today's denominations, as questions about translation accuracy are easily answered in our time.
I think it's clear that simply having strong Christian beliefs doesn't mean that person is going to screw up the country. Besides, if you really think about it, the President doesn't have "that" much power. He can't "make" laws, he gets to sign em or veto em. Congress is where the power is. Especially when one party has a dominant seating. And if one party ever gets to 2/3's, figure the President is pointless since vetos can be easily overturned. The President gets to ask for things, and if like Reagan, his popularity is high enough, he can to some extent force Congress's hand else they risk getting voted out at the next election, the President doesn't really have a lot of "control". It's more influence than control. I have less concerns about who the President is than I do who is in Congress. For example, if Hillary or Obama were to win, I wouldn't be scared unless the Dem's also held both Houses of Congress, cause then we would have some real issues as gun owners,.
# President Religion
1 George Washington Episcopalian
2 John Adams Congregationalist (raised); Unitarian
3 Thomas Jefferson raised Episcopalian; later no specific denomination
held Christian, Deist, Unitarian beliefs
4 James Madison Episcopalian (deist?)
5 James Monroe Episcopalian (deist?)
6 John Quincy Adams Unitarian
7 Andrew Jackson Presbyterian
8 Martin Van Buren Dutch Reformed
9 William Henry Harrison Episcopalian
10 John Tyler Episcopalian (deist)
11 James Knox Polk Presbyterian; Methodist
12 Zachary Taylor Episcopalian
13 Millard Fillmore Unitarian
14 Franklin Pierce Episcopalian
15 James Buchanan Presbyterian
16 Abraham Lincoln raised Baptist; later no specific denomination (deist)
17 Andrew Johnson Christian (no specific denomination)
18 Ulysses S Grant Presbyterian; Methodist
19 Rutherford B. Hayes Presbyterian; Methodist (?)
20 James A. Garfield Disciples of Christ
21 Chester A. Arthur Episcopalian
22 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
23 Benjamin Harrison Presbyterian
24 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian
25 William McKinley Methodist
26 Theodore Roosevelt Dutch Reformed; Episcopalian
27 William Howard Taft Unitarian
28 Woodrow Wilson Presbyterian
29 Warren G. Harding Baptist
30 Calvin Coolidge Congregationalist
31 Herbert Hoover Quaker
32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt Episcopalian
33 Harry S. Truman Southern Baptist
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower River Brethren; Jehovah's Witnesses; Presbyterian
35 John F. Kennedy Catholic
36 Lyndon B. Johnson Disciples of Christ
37 Richard M. Nixon Quaker
38 Gerald Ford Episcopalian
39 Jimmy Carter Baptist (former Southern Baptist)
40 Ronald Reagan Disciples of Christ; Presbyterian
41 George H. W. Bush Episcopalian
42 William Jefferson Clinton Baptist
43 George W. Bush Methodist (former Episcopalian)
The point is, all of them have been Christians in some manner or another. The Adams's and others at our inception did call themselves Unitarian, or Deists, and it seems that it wasn't a desire to "not" be a Christian, but a concern over whether they could truly trust in the accuracy of the texts they had at that time. Considering the view our founders would have had of Catholicism and the Church of England, one can understand they would have some distrust in texts that had their origins with these groups. At that time, there were no were near the 24000+ full and partial manuscripts and letters we have today that allow us to critically evaluate ancient texts for accuracy and validity. With today's sources, I suspect those men would be any one of a number of today's denominations, as questions about translation accuracy are easily answered in our time.
I think it's clear that simply having strong Christian beliefs doesn't mean that person is going to screw up the country. Besides, if you really think about it, the President doesn't have "that" much power. He can't "make" laws, he gets to sign em or veto em. Congress is where the power is. Especially when one party has a dominant seating. And if one party ever gets to 2/3's, figure the President is pointless since vetos can be easily overturned. The President gets to ask for things, and if like Reagan, his popularity is high enough, he can to some extent force Congress's hand else they risk getting voted out at the next election, the President doesn't really have a lot of "control". It's more influence than control. I have less concerns about who the President is than I do who is in Congress. For example, if Hillary or Obama were to win, I wouldn't be scared unless the Dem's also held both Houses of Congress, cause then we would have some real issues as gun owners,.
Please...everyone.. If you don't yet know about Ron Paul and where he stands on everything, you really need to. He's the only choice. All the other republicans are pro war, neo-cons who want big government, more spending and more messes around the world. Hillary wants to sell credits so corporations can pollute more. Obama wants to ban CCW period. Guiliani wants you to be safe, by taking away every freedom you have!
Please, don't discount this...Find out about Ron Paul. The media ignores him or tries to make him look bad.
Ron Paul is a 10 term congressman, was a physician for 40 years, married for 50, served 5 years in Airforce. He ran on libertarian ticket in '88. He's an expert on the constitution, wants to hold to it and makes his decisions based on ideals of the founding fathers.
He wants to make US a non intervention foreign policy and instead of spreading "freedom" through force, we'll change the world by setting a social, economical and moral example here!!
We spend a trillion+ each year in foreign affairs, we've borrowed 500 billion recently from China, social security is broke, war has no end in sight and we've lost and are losing freedom due to the war on terror and the patriot act!!. Ron is the most conservative republican running. Please listen to him, watch him and read his writings. He's honest, has respect even when other candidates don't, he's got great integrity and all in all is a great person, who is running for us, not him.
You need to know about him!! www.ronpaul2008.com
Please!! watch these videos that give a general idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA
Please, don't discount this...Find out about Ron Paul. The media ignores him or tries to make him look bad.
Ron Paul is a 10 term congressman, was a physician for 40 years, married for 50, served 5 years in Airforce. He ran on libertarian ticket in '88. He's an expert on the constitution, wants to hold to it and makes his decisions based on ideals of the founding fathers.
He wants to make US a non intervention foreign policy and instead of spreading "freedom" through force, we'll change the world by setting a social, economical and moral example here!!
We spend a trillion+ each year in foreign affairs, we've borrowed 500 billion recently from China, social security is broke, war has no end in sight and we've lost and are losing freedom due to the war on terror and the patriot act!!. Ron is the most conservative republican running. Please listen to him, watch him and read his writings. He's honest, has respect even when other candidates don't, he's got great integrity and all in all is a great person, who is running for us, not him.
You need to know about him!! www.ronpaul2008.com
Please!! watch these videos that give a general idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA
This Ron Paul stuff is nonsense. He will not win the nomination, nor the White House. He is not a factor, and never will be. The majority of people do not like message. If people liked his message why is he on the bottom of all the polls, and only is supported by vocal minority. He gets plenty of press coverage but no bump in the polls. People are flocking to the Democrat candidates that are promising bigger government, out of Iraq and a host of other social changes. The youth are enthralled with Obama with his message of change. Americans want change, but Paul still a non factor. It seems Paul's message of limited Government is not what the general populous wants. It is not the messenger that is the problem it is the message. That is why Paul is not going anywhere.
that's a very impassioned spiel JT. Sounds like someone I'd definitely consider. The Primary in VA is still a ways off, but perhaps I'll have to give him a bit more consideration as it approaches, if he's still in the running.
I do have to say, this is one of the biggest issues with the current setup, often the best candidates are ignored by the media or vilified, making it difficult for most people to learn about them.
I do have to say, this is one of the biggest issues with the current setup, often the best candidates are ignored by the media or vilified, making it difficult for most people to learn about them.
Arabia: "This Ron Paul stuff is nonsense. He will not win the nomination, nor the White House. He is not a factor, and never will be. The majority of people do not like message. If people liked his message why is he on the bottom of all the polls, and only is supported by vocal minority. He gets plenty of press coverage but no bump in the polls. People are flocking to the Democrat candidates that are promising bigger government, out of Iraq and a host of other social changes. It seem people don't really understand nor care about his message. It is not taking hold of people. American is changing, but not towards Libertarianism. The youth are not out supporting Ron Paul, they are in the streets shouting Obama's name."
You're kidding right?? You believe what the media is pushing, it's government PR. Ron Paul has won every debate ( those he's invited to ) wins every online poll, has more primary/caucus vote totals ( 30,000 ) than Thompson or Guiliani! Romney and Guiliani are running out of money, McCain will continue the bush disaster...
Ron Paul made history with the most money ever raised in 1 day by a candidate. What have you got to lose?? You live in Mass? Toughest gun laws, highest taxes, least freedom!! You'll get what you deserve....I really don't know if you're kidding... Because, yes the youth are his biggest supporters, he has the most divers support, he gets next to 0% press coverage, he's making history and won the AZ straw poll at 80%, a party nominee needs about 1200 delegate nominations, NH and Iowa only have a few, they in many ways don't matter. Please rethink you're position, you couldn't be more wrong if you wanted to be...
You're kidding right?? You believe what the media is pushing, it's government PR. Ron Paul has won every debate ( those he's invited to ) wins every online poll, has more primary/caucus vote totals ( 30,000 ) than Thompson or Guiliani! Romney and Guiliani are running out of money, McCain will continue the bush disaster...
Ron Paul made history with the most money ever raised in 1 day by a candidate. What have you got to lose?? You live in Mass? Toughest gun laws, highest taxes, least freedom!! You'll get what you deserve....I really don't know if you're kidding... Because, yes the youth are his biggest supporters, he has the most divers support, he gets next to 0% press coverage, he's making history and won the AZ straw poll at 80%, a party nominee needs about 1200 delegate nominations, NH and Iowa only have a few, they in many ways don't matter. Please rethink you're position, you couldn't be more wrong if you wanted to be...
JTaylor you live in a dream world. Paul did not win any debate, or scientific poll. You are obviously mentally unstable if you believe he is winning anything.
Did you ever stop to think that the Laws in Mass have more to do with the politics in the state than me. I vote for Pro gun candidates, I do my part. But the majority of the people here don't see it that way. They support the liberal Democrats. Much like how the vast majority of voters now support the Democrats in 2008. I know first hand how it is living in state which is controlled by the Democrat machine. That is why I will support the Republican that have a chance on beating the Dem contender. Otherwise America will be a one party state like Massachusetts. Do you really want that? Oh, that's right your making a political statement. Well let me tell you something supporting Paul will only give us a Democrat President in November with a Dem majority in the congress. Well you can take your political statement and shove it. I for one will not bend over and take it so I can make a statement that will be soon forgotten after November.
Sorry Ron Paul is going now where fast. The people do not like his message. If they did he would be on top all the polls. And yes he does get a lot of press coverage. Every day, when I open the paper his name is mentioned. Every time I turn on the news his name is mentioned. He gets plenty of coverage but still he is nothing.
Did you ever stop to think that the Laws in Mass have more to do with the politics in the state than me. I vote for Pro gun candidates, I do my part. But the majority of the people here don't see it that way. They support the liberal Democrats. Much like how the vast majority of voters now support the Democrats in 2008. I know first hand how it is living in state which is controlled by the Democrat machine. That is why I will support the Republican that have a chance on beating the Dem contender. Otherwise America will be a one party state like Massachusetts. Do you really want that? Oh, that's right your making a political statement. Well let me tell you something supporting Paul will only give us a Democrat President in November with a Dem majority in the congress. Well you can take your political statement and shove it. I for one will not bend over and take it so I can make a statement that will be soon forgotten after November.
Sorry Ron Paul is going now where fast. The people do not like his message. If they did he would be on top all the polls. And yes he does get a lot of press coverage. Every day, when I open the paper his name is mentioned. Every time I turn on the news his name is mentioned. He gets plenty of coverage but still he is nothing.
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Unregistered
Moderator
He is doing as well as Giuliani.
Current delegate dount:
Democrats (IA, NH)
Hillary Clinton - 1st in New Hampshire - 23 delegates
John Edwards - 19 delegates
Barack Obama - 1st in Iowa - 25 - delegates
Republicans (IA, NH, WY)
Mike Huckabee - 1st in Iowa - 31 delegates
John McCain - 1st in New Hampshire - 7 delegates
Ron Paul - 2 delegates
Mitt Romney - 1st in Wyoming - 21 delegates
Fred Thompson - 3 delegates
Democrats (IA, NH)
Hillary Clinton - 1st in New Hampshire - 23 delegates
John Edwards - 19 delegates
Barack Obama - 1st in Iowa - 25 - delegates
Republicans (IA, NH, WY)
Mike Huckabee - 1st in Iowa - 31 delegates
John McCain - 1st in New Hampshire - 7 delegates
Ron Paul - 2 delegates
Mitt Romney - 1st in Wyoming - 21 delegates
Fred Thompson - 3 delegates
Where are you getting this information?
Here are the current delegate count for Republicans. Ron Paul is a distance fifth.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/republican_delegate_count.html
He also has 3.7 national poll average. Which puts him at the bottom of the Republican field. At least his support does seem to be constant... at the bottom. He even seems to be dipping in support. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Arabia, you've lost all credibility in my book. Yes, I live in a dream world, seldom adopted by most people today, I like to call it reality. Unfortunately, people not in the world of reality may as well be in a coma, they're not seeing the truth through the lies.
I'd rather vote for who I believe in rather than who looks to have the best chances. Is it a horse race??? Waiting to see who wins polls, is wasting a vote. Fact is, Guiliani, Mcain and Romney all spent about 10 mil each in NH, they're all almost broke now. Guilaini's staff is going unpaid now. Ron Paul has about $20,000,000 left and has a better strategy that takes the future primaries into consideration. He wins the debates according to viewers, if that counts.
You haven't stated your current pick, are you waiting to see who others choose for you?? All I ask is that people do their own research, form their own opinions and then critically decide based on that. What I fear is that there are people like you, who buy into media propaganda, vote for the guy with the nicest suit and most organized hype and rhetoric.
Anyway, enough.... No use wasting time trying to wake up a closed mind...
I'd rather vote for who I believe in rather than who looks to have the best chances. Is it a horse race??? Waiting to see who wins polls, is wasting a vote. Fact is, Guiliani, Mcain and Romney all spent about 10 mil each in NH, they're all almost broke now. Guilaini's staff is going unpaid now. Ron Paul has about $20,000,000 left and has a better strategy that takes the future primaries into consideration. He wins the debates according to viewers, if that counts.
You haven't stated your current pick, are you waiting to see who others choose for you?? All I ask is that people do their own research, form their own opinions and then critically decide based on that. What I fear is that there are people like you, who buy into media propaganda, vote for the guy with the nicest suit and most organized hype and rhetoric.
Anyway, enough.... No use wasting time trying to wake up a closed mind...
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