Moving away from DA/SA

I'm honestly amazed that there are people from the bottom of their heart like DA/SA....wow!

Honestly, I have no use for them. 1911 for me.
 
Many of the CZ's can be carried cocked, and locked so it is essentially an SA pistol that can do DA if you change back, or want second strike capabilities.
 
I've got nothing against DA/SA guns and have several. I also have striker-fired guns (using the modified double-action design), and some SA guns.

I don't like the difference between the DA/SA trigger pulls (first and second shots, AKA the "DA/SA transition") but can live with it -- an do. I keep hearing how it is not an issue, training is the answer, and with it, such guns can be just as good as any other. But, I hear more people TALKING ABOUT that than actually do it. (I say that after spending several years scoring targets at many IDPA matches; a lot of those folks weren't beginners.)

"Ignore the weight and just pull the trigger" is good advice, but why is advice even needed?! if I ever get into a real gunfight I don't want to have to deal with that issue -- there are going to be other far more important things I want to attend to. Heck, if time allows, I'll just cock the hammer!!

The subtle message I get in some of these discussions is that anyone who can't master the DA/SA trigger transition (or isn't willing to spend a lot range time, practice, and money to do it) is not up to the task of mastering the manly art of gun-handling. Maybe so. I know the DA/SA trigger pulls can be trained around but I'm beginning to wonder, "why bother?"

In years past I loved straight-drive autos, too, but now won't buy a new car unless it's got an automatic transmission. Why bother?

I'm not sure I'll ever buy another NEW DA/SA gun, unless it's a CZ-pattern gun which, in some models, gives you the option of a DA start or SA start. In fact, if striker-fired gun triggers keep getting better and better, I may give up on hammer-fired guns, altogether.
 
This kind of question always seems to devolve to an "I am right and everyone else is wrong" situation. I have used all those types of pistols and can do as well (or as badly) with any of them. I still like a DA/SA revolver, which I fire mostly DA, a much better trigger pull than most of the DAO pistols.

In fact, it comes down to personal preferences. Since the first days of DA/SA pistols with the Walther PP, there have been folks who disliked the "gear shift" and others who didn't mind. One advantage of the DA/SA is that the hammer can (usually) be cocked manually for a much lighter pull; the main advantage of the DAO is consistency - each pull is the same.

So there is no right and wrong. There is only a preference. Go with what you like.

Jim
 
I also have a 1911 (Colt Government) that I shoot better than any DA/SA or DAO that I own. It has a really light trigger, though, so I don't use it for self defense.
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And don't forget ZERO take up on that trigger. I feel exactly as you do.
 
I do find a true DA trigger a little harder to shoot well.

But I don't consider the polymers (Glock in my case) to be true DA. They are really a 1.25 action, because they are 75% cocked by racking the slide.

My pistols are grouped into: 1911, Sig P226/229, and Glock. My preference is in that order, but I'm not willing to give any of them up.

1911: I shoot these best. They are also the prettiest. Basically limited to 8 + 1 rounds, but it's 230 grains of .45 caliber. Not the easiest gun to carry.

Sig: In SA they shoot almost as well as the 1911. The first shot will be DA, but with practice it can be almost the equal of the 1911. The P229 is not hard to carry, especially if it has no rail. For home defense, the P226 can provide 20 + 1 rounds. Very comforting.

Glock: As I said above, it's actually closer to SA than DA. With no safety, I don't recommend it for everyone. The G26 is my most often carried. It's the only small gun I'm able to shoot well.
 
1911 take up..... That is adjustable. Your smith could dial in quite a it by adjusting the trigger bow. I like just enough to know I'm pressing on it, but not so much to be alarming when/if I reaquire when shooting fast.

1911: I shoot these best. They are also the prettiest. Basically limited to 8 + 1 rounds, but it's 230 grains of .45 caliber. Not the easiest gun to carry.
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Can someone explain why a right size, right weight 1911 is hard to carry. I carry a DW CCO, so this comment and others like it puzzle me. I think 1911's often get painted with too broad a brush. I agree that a 5" railed, double stack, steel frame 1911 would be maybe too much on the belt.....but an AL framed CCO, or officer??
 
Every system requires attention to a different aspect of training, with the important unifying factor being that IT REQUIRES TRAINING.

DA/SA and DAO require a LOT of practice on thd DA trigger. It takes a lot of time and frustration, to be effective at it, and as Walt points out, most people don't bother with it. But if you spend the time to do it, I find it's actually one of the most satisfying shooting exercises out there. I only shoot SA about 25% of the time these days. Once you start working on DA, your fundamentals will improve to the point where SA feels like barely a challenge at combat distances.

Light striker triggers like the Glock (I do not consider them DAO, regardless of the mechanics) require additional practice in handling, and also in presentation (between steps 4 and 5) to make sure you don't accidentally touch off a round before you're ready. I've seen it happen in classes - look for a person jumping visibly on the first shot, then pausing before lining up the second shot. That's usually because they got really surprised on their surprise trigger break. But once you master that aspect, it really is the simplest and easiest way to shoot.

SA requires additional training to ensure you always disengage the safety on presentation, and re-engage it when you stand down. That second part is a lot more difficult than you would think - I've lost count of how many people get yelled at by instructors for holstering without engaging the safety. You have to practice, practice, practice this until it's automatic.

The point to all that verbage is that all systems require attention in different areas, and which one is best for you is going to depend on what you feel comfortable with.
 
>Does anybody else have problems shooting DA/SA guns<

Not really. That may be because, to me, the DA is just a safety feature, and when I'm shooting my DA/SA (a czp01) at the range, it's always SA.

If you're first shot is DA, followed by SA's that aren't hitting right, the DA is probably throwing off the "muscle memory" in your trigger finger.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
The subtle message I get in some of these discussions is that anyone who can't master the DA/SA trigger transition (or isn't willing to spend a lot range time, practice, and money to do it) is not up to the task of mastering the manly art of gun-handling. Maybe so. I know the DA/SA trigger pulls can be trained around but I'm beginning to wonder, "why bother?"

In years past I loved straight-drive autos, too, but now won't buy a new car unless it's got an automatic transmission. Why bother?

I'm not sure I'll ever buy another NEW DA/SA gun, unless it's a CZ-pattern gun which, in some models, gives you the option of a DA start or SA start. In fact, if striker-fired gun triggers keep getting better and better, I may give up on hammer-fired guns, altogether.
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Well, the better part of the armed professional community agrees with you re: 'why bother?'. And for good reason.

DA/SA is a nice trigger setup for LE, in that it gives a long, heavy first pull. This is emulated by the NY and NY2 trigger packages for the Glock, but the Glock trigger doesn't ever get lighter like the SA.
 
I'm sure it CARRIES well -- but the safety lever is a problem for some folks (it doesn't stick out that far). The standard DA/SA (safety-equipped) CZs have rather unobtrusive safety levers. Only the dedicated SA models do it right - those lever are much larger and easier to use!

I have the P-07 with the same levers as the P-09 and it's not an issue for me, but I'd like the lever to stick out more for an easier "push."
 
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I'm in the same boat as you OP. I bought a p229 extreme a few months ago, not a fan of it. I just signed up for GSSF last week, once I get my coupon, I'll have a gen4 G19 in my hands. And I'll most likely sell the sig. I have better groups with a SW9VE than I do my p229. I have no justification for a sig I cannot shoot well.
It may very well just be me (and I'm sure it is), but it just hasn't warmed up to me in 1000 rds.
 
Not only do I not have issues shooting DA/SA models, I prefer them. Nothing wrong with striker fired as I own a couple of very good ones. I also shoot them and DAO models well.

Not all DA/SA models are equals when it comes trigger characteristics. Some are more conducive to accurate shooting and faster follow up shots than others.

The 226 is a very good gun that's been proven reliable and accurate. I also like the ergonomics and control layout. Like any other handgun, it's not the end all be all. Some may just not like it for various reasons and there's nothing wrong with that. Some just prefer strikers and there are some very good models on the market right now.

If you want a striker that's similar in size to the 226, that is reliable, accurate, great ergo's and has a very good trigger, take a look at the Steyr L9-A1.


Other good bigger strikers that are reliable, accurate, ergonomic, and have good triggers would be the Sig 320 (full size) and Walther PPQ M2 5".
 
For me it depends on the weapon. I've got an old Walther PP that has a very long and heavy DA that I've never been able to use well. But I've had no trouble with my S&W 3913, and my son's CZ 83 is downright easy. Then there's my old S&W model 19. The DA trigger pull is sweet, but my finger is too short to reach it without shifting the gun in my hand. No accuracy there! I'm thinking that the real issue is how well the weapon fits the hand.
 
I don't mind a nice single action gun and I might even own a DAO or Glock type triggered gun someday but for self defense I'll take DA/SA any day. Virtually all the guns in my carry rotation are CZ type DA/SA guns. I see it as a single action. Instead of dealing with a safety you have the DA trigger pull if you need to go quick. A little more time and you simply cock the hammer before the first shot. That's the way I carry. I prefer it even to cocked and locked. I really don't see any reason that anyone couldn't get proficient with the SA pull of a DA/SA with a good amount of practice. If it's just something you don't think is worth the effort though, have at it! I would only have one maybe two handguns at the most if I were to limit myself to striker plastics. Sure they work but........
 
I find that sigs are low shooters. I think it is due to the use of combat style sights and a low bore axis. I am not an expert though. IF I work solely on a sig, I can hit what I want. It takes more work than other brands that is for sure. For the money, I would rather shoot my H+Ks(p30, vp9 ,hk45)than a sig

a new Walther ppq in .45 acp came out. MY walther ppqs(9mm) are THE most accurate guns I own out of the box. They are equally as accurate as my 1911s(in my hands)

personally, I am waiting out the H+K release of the vp45 next year?
 
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