Most effective 223 deer loads
- Thread starter JJ45
- Start date
Maxwell Haus
Moderator
Of course there are better .
And you blame the cartridge for the lost game???
I'd be willing to bet, if we could somehow examine all the lost deer, no matter what they were shot with, I think we would find that the majority of the time, the deer was not put down due to a failure of the shooter, not the bullet.
Some years back, I met a fellow who had just taken his sixth (6th) ELK with his .243. He considered it the perfect elk rifle. It was light, carried easily, didn't hardly kick and dropped them DRT. He hunted in thick woods, ranges of 75yds and usually much less, and he only took neck shots, and only when he was absolutely certain he could hit where he wanted. This meant he passed up a lot of shots that other people would take, and he was fine with that.
Light caliber rifles work just fine, if you shoot with surgical precision. Trouble is, we have a lot of people who think they do, and don't.
SO they blame the cartridge, or the rifle or the bullet, or all three or something else for what is actually their failure.
Game laws are written with the greatest number of people in mind, and for the greatest benefit for the SPORT (and the deer).
How many states allow .22 centerfire for deer? 4?, 6?? The overwhelming majority do not. There is probably a reason for that....
on the other hand, I know one place that did not allow buckshot for deer but did allow it for black bear in exactly the same location. I'm sure there was a reason for that, but I could never figure out one that made any sense.
My personal preference is 30-06 but there are smaller bullets that can do the job.
44 AMP said:
I know it's the other way around, the majorityof states allow .22 centerfire for hunting. As of 2017 34 out of 50 states allow .22 caliber centerfire or smaller for hunting according to this article. I think it was around 2017 when Wyoming said .22' centerfire cartridges were good to go for pronghon and deer.
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One last question (and I really am just respectfully curious, no points to make here) : are you a shoulder shooter or boiler room? I guess what I'm really wondering is what threshold exists that the -06 can cross that the .223/.243 can't, as it pertains to deer.
My state has a .243/6mm minimum as well. However, that makes an 85 grain bullet out of a 6X45 (6mm-223) perfectly within regulations for elk and moose in Colorado. I wouldn't recommend it at all, but I've had pretty good success with the 6mm-222 mag on pronghorn.44 AMP said:
Double Naught Spy
New member
I applaud you for requesting information and making a (better) informed decision to meet your personal needs based on the responses you received, in particular because you decided that your original premise to use the caliber was the wrong starting point for you. OUTSTANDING! I am not arguing against the caliber, only that you seem to be using information to make a more appropriate decision.
"Better" is often in the eye of the shooter. I certainly think you could go with a number of more powerful or capable calibers that would not cause you significant problems with recoil or overall gun weight.
In the grand scheme, the smaller and less powerful calibers work better with more precise shooting and bullets that perform at the optimal best at the anticipated impact velocities (best performance being what you want the bullet to be doing). Larger, more powerful calibers allow more room for error. For example, a marginal shot by a smaller, less powerful caliber that does a nominal amount of tissue damage is theoretically will be less effective than a shot in the same place by a larger, more powerful caliber that does a larger amount of tissue damage. More tissue damage done means a greater likelihood of vital structure involvement or larger volumes of vital structure involvement. If your deer does not drop on the spot, the deer with the greater amount of tissue damage is less apt to travel as far, hence increasing your likelihood for recovery.
A buddy of mine deer hunts in Kansas. Where he hunts, he can shoot a deer and have line of sight on it for upwards of 400 or 500 yards in any direction. Finding a deer that runs 100-200 yards isn't an issue and he has no real concern about blood trails. Where another buddy of mine hunts in Virginia, line of sight may be gone before the deer has traveled 10 yards and so a deer that travels 100-200 yards can literally take hours to find if the blood trail is poor, or may even be lost.
A .223 with full expansion likely will be less than that of a .45/70 with partial expansion or a 12 ga. slug with no expansion, though you can find .45/70 or 12 ga slugs from which you can expect to have full expansion. You can expect all 3 of these to overpenetrate a deer in most cases (which most deer hunters consider to be a good thing for blood trails). Often (not always), the larger the exit wound in a given location, the greater the external blood loss. Of course, with the larger calibers come more recoil and a greater loss of meat. The larger calibers are more apt to punch through heavy bone and continue through the body than smaller calibers.
I am not suggesting you NEED either of these larger calibers, but am just using them as examples, though people do hunt deer with those calibers as well.
Berger has a line of bullets designed to NOT overpenetrate, but instead to fragment and expend and expend all their energy inside the chest cavity. I don't think 'energy' is nearly as important as the damage done with all the fragmentation going into the cardio pulmonary systems, even CNS (spine), but that is their claim. You are trading penetration potential for increased wound channel size potential. The downside is a lack of an exit wound blood trail, but supposedly the animals are apt to go down faster.
So the bottom line is that every caliber is a compromise and you need to find what works best for you and your situation and with that the right bullet or bullets that do what you want them to do.
My suggestion to you at this time (of shortages) is to NOT choose anything outside of the realm of more popular calibers. I am a 6.5 Grendel shooter and finding that caliber is darned near impossible. I think it is a very capable caliber, but may be worthless to you if you can't find ammo. So, stick with the more common/traditional calibers such a .223, .243, , .270 .30-30, .308, .30-06, .45-70, etc. ...calibers with a long history and of use that remain COMMON today.
Is the .223 a perfect deer cartridge, not by a long shot. However, if you control some if the variables (ie range, shot placement, alertness of target) it's perfectly capable. I think it's best if used from a blind or tree stand at 150 yards or less, and blood trails aren't always the best so a high shoulder shot with a mono metal bullet like Barnes TSX/TTSX, Hornady GMX, or Nosler E-Tip is best. I do believe in the .22 centerfire (.223 Rem and up) the mono metals are the best options when needing to break the shoulders.
Different part of the country but you can't find anything common here except magnum cartridges. Last time I was able to purchase .308 was early November and haven't seen .270 or 06 since before Christmas. Stuff I see sitting on the shelf every time locally are 6.5X55, 7-08, .280 Rem, and .350 Legend and usually at least one option in 7mm RM and .300 Win. I even saw .260 Rem yesterday at a store that has never carried it before.
Double Naught Spy said:
Different part of the country but you can't find anything common here except magnum cartridges. Last time I was able to purchase .308 was early November and haven't seen .270 or 06 since before Christmas. Stuff I see sitting on the shelf every time locally are 6.5X55, 7-08, .280 Rem, and .350 Legend and usually at least one option in 7mm RM and .300 Win. I even saw .260 Rem yesterday at a store that has never carried it before.
Double Naught Spy
New member
taylorce1, interesting (and good!) observation. Our local Academy seems to literally get 10 times the amount of what I considered to be more common calibers than the others, but everything still sells out.
However, in looking at ammoseek.com, I still see there being a lot more of the more common calibers. However, if you are just shopping locally, then what is common locally is your common calibers.
However, in looking at ammoseek.com, I still see there being a lot more of the more common calibers. However, if you are just shopping locally, then what is common locally is your common calibers.
Maxwell Haus
Moderator
Logs , did you recover the bullet ? If so I was wondering if it held together , or just what it looked like in general ? If no bullet info can you describe what the result was when it came terminal damage please ? I have never tried a 55 grain soft point before . Thanks
Maxwell,
Great question. No I didn't. The bullet went out the other side so it was long gone. I was pretty impressed at how well it worked. I had bought the ammo before all the Covid madness and actually got a rebate on it. It was bought for my daughter to use since I bought two of the TC Compass guns when they were $200 after rebate a few years ago. I got one in 223 and one in 243. She actually hunted with the .243, but the "Friend" wanted to hunt with an AR so that is why we used the .223.
This was the deer my daughter shot with .243.
Middle AR used to harvest the Doe.
I took this Buck with an AR using 7.62x39 Fusion Ammo. Deer didn't run far either. Next year I am hoping to get a deer with my new 6.8 SPC AR to see how it does.
Great question. No I didn't. The bullet went out the other side so it was long gone. I was pretty impressed at how well it worked. I had bought the ammo before all the Covid madness and actually got a rebate on it. It was bought for my daughter to use since I bought two of the TC Compass guns when they were $200 after rebate a few years ago. I got one in 223 and one in 243. She actually hunted with the .243, but the "Friend" wanted to hunt with an AR so that is why we used the .223.
This was the deer my daughter shot with .243.
Middle AR used to harvest the Doe.
I took this Buck with an AR using 7.62x39 Fusion Ammo. Deer didn't run far either. Next year I am hoping to get a deer with my new 6.8 SPC AR to see how it does.
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I’ve had 223 since 60s. Bolts, semi and single shot. I also had several other rifles. For years I hunted at least 2 states for deer. Bottom line I have rifles that are much better deer guns. I hear guys that need 300mags to get the job done, others bragging up 22 mags. The truth is if you are sniping deer from a stand it doesn’t matter what you shoot them with. They aren’t hard to kill with a well placed shot. If you are a tradition type hunter who is stalking through woods and brush a heavier bullet works better on running deer. Make no mistake the deer can only be dead, it’s just how far are you going to have to track it to find it dead. The 222 has been around for years and I don’t remember people obsessed with using it for deer. In WVa I knew a crew who swore by 22/250 and 220Swift. They all shot fields from stands. No you can justify it any way you want but a 223 isn’t a good choice for deer.
Maxwell Haus
Moderator
Logs,
Thanks for the info , much appreciated . That picture of your daughter with her buck is priceless . That is impressive what that 55 grain cup and core bullet did . I have a 7.62 x 39mm I carry at times, have never seen a buck while carrying so have not had a chance to see what it will do . Cool pic with the Garand too , I am about to put a new barrel on mine in hopes to get a buck with it someday . Thanks
Thanks for the info , much appreciated . That picture of your daughter with her buck is priceless . That is impressive what that 55 grain cup and core bullet did . I have a 7.62 x 39mm I carry at times, have never seen a buck while carrying so have not had a chance to see what it will do . Cool pic with the Garand too , I am about to put a new barrel on mine in hopes to get a buck with it someday . Thanks