Mossberg 464 lever-action?

I don't think that Mossberg will steal any customers from Marlin. There may be a niche for the cheaply made Mossberg levergun now. When that dries up, Mossberg will quit making them. And that will be the problem for Mossberg lever owners, since their guns will probably not hold up over the years like Marlins and Winchesters. They will need parts. If you look at the cheaper clones of other fine rifles and shotguns, that some companies went out of their league to make, just for the dollar, they had a rather short run, with few parts available, after the guns were discontinued. I'm not saying that all clones ended this way, but enough historical data exists for many, to support scepticism.
 
Still waiting for 'Winchester' (which is owned by someother superb maker' to unvail the new model 94..I have a feeling it is just around the corner. :)
 
Perhaps I say things that sound different than what I mean. I do respect the 94. It is slender and good looking. What I meant to say, is that the 336's seem to me, tobe a bit heavier duty and are reported to be more accurate on the average. Doesn't really matter at this point. They are both classics and I don't believe the 494 ever will be. I have always had a thing for the 94 trapper. What a little whip that would be. Doubt I'll ever get one now. Anyone know how much you would lose with that short little barrel, from the 30-30 power level?
 
You don't lose very much from a 30-30 in a 16" barrel. I don't remember the numbers but I've seen them posted on other sites and it just wasn't that much of a loss.
 
Hearing a bunch of "saw one...didn't like it" and "I hear they suck cuz..." Well folks, let me offer something sorely missing from this thread. FIRST HAND and INDEPTH/EXTENDED observation. Here's the data:

Date Purchased: Sep '08
Rounds fired: 35 (all same as below)
Ammo: Hornaday LEVERevolution 160gr.
Days in Field '08 Seasons: 17
Days in Field '09 Seasons: 8 (and counting)

Season 1 Report:

Bought a few weeks before moose season last year. Wanted to try it without sling & scope, as my heroes of the yesteryear did. As such, I spent all 17 days afield in '08 without scope or sling. I didn't even check boresighting that year... just took it to my local 100yd range and made sure I could consistently hit 6" diameter targets at 100yds. No problems on range, and no misses or 2nd shots needed during the season. I always sight/train with the same ammo I hunt.

Season 2 Report (mid-season):

This year, I added a sling and a Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40 scope. It comes tapped for weaver (h3) mounts and rings...so that was much easier than most lever's around. With the scope I bore sighted and then took it to the range for tuning. The bore sighting (laserlyte) was set to 3in low at 20yds. With live ammo at 100 yds, I was still about an inch low. but no windage changes needed. After tuning elevation I saw 1.1 to 1.9 inch groups the rest of the session.

Thusfar, I've had no problems with feeding/cycling. 25d afield in the rocky/brushy slopes of vermont and it's held up very well. The blueing is actually better than most rifles I've owned. I oiled the wood after last season and it looks great. I'm not so happy with my scope mounts/scope (too bulky and overkill in function). So after the season, I'm going to swap the scope for a 4x32 with decent eye-relief and the detachable see-thru mounts, so that I retain the irons sights as optional.

In fact, I've had so much fun with this lil' bugger that my m77 mkII .308 hasn't been out at all in 2yrs. One of the things I've come to really appreciate (thinking ahead about my growing fast-growing boys)... are the redundant safeties. Tang safety, hammer and the lever-pressure safety are not at all cumbersome in the field (I thought the lever-pressure safety would affect my trigger squeeze but it hasn't noticeably).

Ultimately, this is not a junk gun at all. It may not yet have the collector's value of the winchester's or marlins, but it's just as solid, reliable, accurate and a surprisingly fun rifle to take afield and will likely have a home in my gunsafe for many years to come.
 
35 rounds? And you really feel that's enough to rate a gun? While it's better than a "I heard this" or "I heard that" it's only marginally so.

Let us know how it's does after a couple 1000. Of coarse at your current rate that will be in 30-40 years.

I'll say this, most guns, even very lame ones like the Remington 770, will do fine for the occasional hunter who goes out once a year to bag a buck and then hangs the gun up. Doesn't mean it's quality though.

I'll also go in with any camp that say's it's not gonna pay more for a Mossberg knockoff than they would for a Marlin or a used Winchester.

LK
 
LK - I'm not knocking the winchester or marlin at all...In fact, I'm darn near decided on getting a marlin 336 in .338 Marlin Express, as a "Big Brother" to the 464. Also, I was not suggesting that I've put the gun through any sort of torture test (I'm not a gun writer, tester or anyone else associated with the industry and I would rather spend such a personal ammo budget on other things, like a new stove for my hunting camp :-) )... I was just trying to give feedback on my personal observations during the two years of normal use that I've owned it (which happen to correspond with the rifle's two years on the market). Since there's not been much feedback from "in the field" users on this board.

Ultimately, my own declarations are:

1. My mossberg 464 has given me no indication of it being "junk" with this practical experience.
2. Would I recommend it over a winchester or marlin? I dunno, I would probably mention the features I like about it (the accuracy I've witnessed, the extractor works well with scope, lever-pressure safety, tapped for weaver and oddly the little orange cap that lets me know when the magazine tube is empty) -- then I would suggest that the marlin has better chamberings and the winchester has more collector's value (but we can't be as certain of the future of winchester).
3. We should all be excited about a renewal of attention on lever-guns and Hornady, Marlin & Mossberg are largely responsible for the new tide.
 
Winchester will alway's be King of the Lever action rifle regardless of the die hard Marlin owners who don't prefer a legend rifle that went out at the top of it's game.
Click to expand...

I don't want a rattle-trap that has a weaker action, PITA to scope (1894-1983) cast receiver (64-83), and commands a premium price because Winchester failed (even though it wasn't due to the 94).

Sorry, I don't buy things because of "legend" status or was used in more Hollywood movies.
 
Mossberg went out of its league to manufacture this levergun, and did a mediocre job of it. I agree that 35 rounds out of a rifle really says nothing, outside of assessing fit and finish and general initial function. Others here CAN eyeball a rifle and give a generally accurate report of what they saw and handled. They have the experience, and DON'T have to buy it. Additionally, the Mossberg Levergun has now been around long enough to get a bigger survey, and as mentioned, it wasn't good.
Don't know what to say. There aren't many companies that can introduce a different pattern from their production line, and do it well. Thompson Center Icon comes to mind as an exception. They're owned by Marlin. And Marlin XL7, nice entry level bolt action. Hmmm, see a trend? Interestingly, I saw a Wnchester pre65, model 94 for $400. listed. It looked pretty darn good. Function listed as excellent. I don't doubt it. That makes it how old?
 
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Hearing a bunch of "saw one...didn't like it" and "I hear they suck cuz..." Well folks, let me offer something sorely missing from this thread. FIRST HAND and INDEPTH/EXTENDED observation. Here's the data:
Click to expand...

It might be a good idea to read previous posts before writing such -

I make no claim to being an expert but, I got my first rifle for my 6th birthday in 1932 and, being a retired surgeon, am able to shoot at the range every week now so I think I have had enough experience to judge rifles like the 464.

As I stated in my post on this thread, there were several threads on the Levergun.com forum with 99% reporting failures in the first few rounds fired and not just speculation as you allege. The only one reporting otherwise eventually came to the conclusion he was wrong in his conclusion the 464 wasn't as bad as described by other users-shooters.

Here's what a search there produced:Search found 345 matches

Search term used: mossberg 464


Most gun manufacturers test fire their guns before putting them on the market. The fact the Mossberg 464 has failed in as little as only one shot suggests there was no test fire program at Mossberg for the 464. As I reported on my previous post on this thread, I haven't even gone through a box of 20 rounds and nave had two part failures. If it were an automobile, there would have been a massive recall - even Ruger has experienced that - and it was done at the manufacturer's expense.

Not so here - I'm certain Mossberg is well aware of the problems with 464 parts failing - costing customers money to get their guns fixed - but they seem to be turning a deaf ear and ignoring customers - which they have done in the past. Mossberg has no conscience and is ignoring potential injury and lawsuits from injured customers.

My concern is, if there are so many early failures of parts, what are the odds the next part to fail could be the locking mechanism of the bolt or even the bolt which could produce a devastating injury to the shooter??

Personally, I'm not willing to take that chance. So now I have a gun I'm afraid to shoot and certainly won't take the chance of selling - or even giving it away.

As was mentioned above, 45 rounds doesn't prove anything except you got a gun that happened to make it. I put more than that through rifles each weekly trip to the range. The fact you got a 464 that hasn't failed only proves what we all know - no one is perfect - even perfectly bad.

:barf:
 
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I saw the pictures and read an article on the NEW 464, and it was all positive at first. But after reading all the real reviews from actual owners, it's not so good for the NEW 464.

After careful consideration, I decided to pick up another Authentic model 94 in addition to the one I already own. There are so many Excelent USED model 94s to be had ...especially in these times of great financial difficulties. Seems that many people are having to part with their guns for extra cash.

I recently found a mint condition Commorative model 94, it's the 1869-1969 Golden Spike for the Union Pacific Railroad completion. $400. for this Winchester and it shoots like a dream..very accurate indeed. Between new Marlins and plenty of used Winchesters, theres really no need to go fishing for something new in the Lever gun field. I come to the conclusion, that the best New gun, is a proven used one from a gun shop that comes with a 90 day warranty. :cool:
 
I also meant to mention I looked back at old Gun Digests and, in the 1980s, Mossberg produced some half dozen models of 30-30 lever rifles so the present 464 is not totally strange grounds for them and they don't have that excuse.

Of interest, none of those rifles lasted for sale more than a couple of years. Looks to me like Mossberg is just counting on us having short memories - but, I can say for certain I can make an elephant look like an absent minded professor when a company screws me like Mossberg did.

Wouldn't even take any kind of Mossberg as a gift now -

:barf:
 
Huntergirl - I'm not sure what "trend" you're trying to illuminate. Thompson Center is owned by Smith&Wesson, not Marlin. And Marlin is owned by Remington, which is in-turn owned by Cerberus (an investment company...the same one that also bought Chrysler and is losing their arse). Winchester (and Browning) is owned by FNH and is nothing but trademarks for sale now. Now here's a point worth considering: As good as the Winchester and Marlin lever-guns are... Mossberg is the only PROFITABLE large US firearmsmaker producing a lever-gun today. In '06, when Winchester closed their New Haven, CT plant (which made their model 94 btw)... many of those workers went to Mossberg (also in New Haven, CT).

Again, the winchester's and marlins are great guns. But as you say, with the number of people reporting negative experiences (of use) with the 464, and the number of people asking about 464's, I thought it was worth noting my own 2yr experience, without discounting the experiences of others. Anyone making a purchasing decision today is fortunate enough to have the benefit of reviews on the internet and that's all we're doing.
 
Mossberg is the only PROFITABLE large US firearmsmaker producing a lever-gun today
Click to expand...

Someone forget about Henry?

Profitable or not, US or not, large or not, all companies can and will lay an egg.

If Mossberg can last out the original issues with the 464 it may turn into a great firearm. But just like they do with restaurants, customers usually only give a gun one shot and don't forget their initial experience.

LK
 
I like mossberg products, but I'd rather have a marlin or winchester lever ANY day. I own lots of mossbergs, and I rushed out to see the 464 when they came out, but it just looked and felt, well, cheap to me. Just one mans opinion, though
 
LK - You're right, I forgot about Henry...my bust, sorry. Especially since I will certainly concur that the action on mossberg can't hold a candle in smoothness to the Henry.
 
My take on this. I won't own a Mossberg for all the reasons stated above. On the Win. 94. Over the latest years they had cheapened it to the point it was only a shell of its former self. I.E> compare a pre-64 to anything that came later. I own and shoot a lot of lever guns from .22 to 45/70. I was died in the wool Win. fan until they cheapened them to the point the wouldn't hold up to a lot of sustained shooting. The last 3 I bought, a pack rifle in 30/30 and 2 Win. bigbore 444's basically self destructed under sustained fire. I still have some Wins. but they are older and made better. I have switched to Marlin for my lever needs now. My 2 ea. 444p's have digested 1000's of rounds and are no worse for the wear.
If the Win 94 ever comes back I hope its made with the quality of old. What they did during the last years of production was count on their earlier reputation as Colt did to sell an inferior product and the market didn't go for it. My $0,02 is that Marlin still makes the best all steel and walnut lever gun available today.
 
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