Moslems in Minnesota.

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If you don't want to handle pork why would you work in a super market? Thats rediculus that I would have to move to another line because you cant touch pork.

It's the same thing with the woman who would not remove her veil to take her drivers license picture. It dosen't work. All I hear is seperation of church and state. Well state says take the damn picture, no matter what religion.

How come Christians have to constantly adjust there style of living for fear of offending others? Removing Crosses from chapels, christmas decorations, ten commandments from state buildings. But These guys can't ring up my pork?
 
I just wanna know when it became alright for people to come to this country and start DEMANDING things they want. It doesn't work that way bubba. You came here to get away from things you didn't like right? Well here we don't have mass prayer at sunrise, noon, and sunset. We eat pork if we want, and we transport our bottle of fine wine in a cab if that is the transportation we choose. If you don't like it go back home. It's getting crowded here anyway.

Sadly, as far as racial profiling goes, we pay for the mistakes of those around us. I did push ups and sit ups and ran miles because guys wanted cake in basic training. They paid for it later, but we took our lumps and dealt with it. Point of that being is, if a group of people claim to be muslims and then blow up buildings and kill soldiers and innocents in the name of their god, then you pay the price for calling yourself a muslim and wearing that style clothing in this country. When you're a cop and you get called out for a "suspicious black man in a green t-shirt" in Harlem, guess what? You sure as hell aren't looking for a white guy in a suit! It works, use it. if they don't like it they can move back to the middle east and we can turn the place into a parking lot.

Kill em all let their god sort 'em out.
 
If you don't want to handle pork why would you work in a super market? Thats rediculus that I would have to move to another line because you cant touch pork.
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Chances are you wouldn't have to move to another line...you'd either have to go through the herculean effort of dragging your own bacon over a scanner or simply wait 10 seconds for another employee to do it. If that's more inconvenience that you think you can handle, I'll say again you really ought to get over yourself.

As for why they'd work in a supermarket (or any other job where such issues arise)...well, there aren't many jobs where issues won't arise, and I'd say that the issues arising in the supermarket setting (particularly at Wal-Mart or Target, where they aren't primarily grocery stores) are both infrequent enough and minor enough that there's no reason they can't do the job. Were I a manager I probably wouldn't put them on checkout, but it's not like it's the end of the world.

How come Christians have to constantly adjust there style of living for fear of offending others? Removing Crosses from chapels, christmas decorations, ten commandments from state buildings. But These guys can't ring up my pork?
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For one, when we're talking about state buildings (or publicly funded displays) we're talking about the first amendment. Two, last I checked Christianity doesn't say that I'll burn in Hell if we don't have a nativity scene out in front of city hall. So yeah, that's apples and Chevrolets right there.


I just wanna know when it became alright for people to come to this country and start DEMANDING things they want. It doesn't work that way bubba. You came here to get away from things you didn't like right? Well here we don't have mass prayer at sunrise, noon, and sunset. We eat pork if we want, and we transport our bottle of fine wine in a cab if that is the transportation we choose. If you don't like it go back home. It's getting crowded here anyway.
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The only part of that I can get behind is taxicabs...vital service and all, and shouldn't be refused due to the person in need of transportation doing something well within their rights. The rest sounds like xenophobic crap.

Sadly, as far as racial profiling goes, we pay for the mistakes of those around us. I did push ups and sit ups and ran miles because guys wanted cake in basic training. They paid for it later, but we took our lumps and dealt with it. Point of that being is, if a group of people claim to be muslims and then blow up buildings and kill soldiers and innocents in the name of their god, then you pay the price for calling yourself a muslim and wearing that style clothing in this country. When you're a cop and you get called out for a "suspicious black man in a green t-shirt" in Harlem, guess what? You sure as hell aren't looking for a white guy in a suit! It works, use it. if they don't like it they can move back to the middle east and we can turn the place into a parking lot.
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You volunteered for the military, and the military operates under a different set of rules than the public at large. So that comparison is worthless. Also, we aren't talking about looking for a specific "black man in green t-shirt" that recently committed a crime. We're talking about blanket profiling of pretty much an entire race at all times across the nation [EDIT: assuming they don't "assimilate" and have the nerve to wear their traditional clothes]. So again, apples and Chevrolets. I'll hit that last part in a second.

Kill em all let their god sort 'em out.
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And with that, I think DasBoot got his wish. The thread has reached fruition. I assume a lock is coming, but before it does let me say I think you fail as both a human being and an American.

EDIT: Or is being against genocide just one of those silly liberal, "politically correct" things?
 
Bravo, I'm emailing a link to this thread to every liberal news agency I can find.

That'll get us shut down... I mean... Yeah!

Some arguments for profiling:

Guess what, Islam is a religion with millions of members who want to see Americans dead. Lets get over this BS about there being 2 caves in Tajikistan with the only extremist Muslims in it, and the rest are peace loving people. Some of the extremists are on our soil already.

Of those, thousands are willing to die for Islam, to hurt America. The vast majority of those with the means to accomplish this are Middle-Eastern.

I'm willing to bet that airport checks have already saved thousands of lives, simply as a deterrent. The terrorists have to find the British Jamaicans in their ranks that are willing to blow themselves up, and that's a good thing.

Convince me that official profiling against Muslims will not be limited to airports.

My proposition is to use private security organizations to do all of the checking and screening and profiling, and limit it by law to airports.

And to give it some perspective: Lets say I'm a white guy living in Egypt, or India or whatever. Recently there has been a bunch of suicide bombings at airports by some kind of "White Crusader" group. If I go to an airport I wouldn't object to being singled out and searched (unless they insist on sticking fingers inside of me, I think I would just take a boat), I would be just as wary as everyone else.

This may make the odds of a non-white sneaking a bomb into an airport more likely, but it's going to be harder for the group to find someone willing to do it. You are trading 20 likely bombings for 1 guaranteed bombing.
 
As many predicted...

this has gone off into some weird land of religious hatred.

Lots of TFLers don't like Muslims, just because they're Muslims. That's sad, but not unexpected.

It's clear now where this thread is headed. Right where it was going from post #1. Perhaps the moderators should take a closer look.

We've gone off the rails on this one, IMHO. You might consider that there might be a few Muslim members here, and that their dignity is as important as yours.

This thread reflects very poorly on us as a community.

--Shannon
 
This is NOT against Muslims, in fact I am not singling out any person or group, but some groups or people are disliked for a reason, a many times earned reason, and then want to cry and say it isn't right or fair

If you don't wanna play by the current rules don't be surprised when folks become upset about it.
" When in Rome do as the Romans do" isn't all that far off base in many instances

We or at least some think the whole durn world should accept everything and anybody. Well guess what, it isn't gonna fly everywhere or from everyone. Political correctness is being forced on us and is not gonna be accepted by the majority in the end IMO.
No one cares to be forced into anything, we wouldn't expect things to change for us if we were in another part of the world, why should it be expected here?

I and millions like me will never accept such foolishness.
 
I'm willing to bet that airport checks have already saved thousands of lives, simply as a deterrent. The terrorists have to find the British Jamaicans in their ranks that are willing to blow themselves up, and that's a good thing.

...

This may make the odds of a non-white sneaking a bomb into an airport more likely, but it's going to be harder for the group to find someone willing to do it. You are trading 20 likely bombings for 1 guaranteed bombing.
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Thousands of lives? I think you are greatly overestimating both the frequency and rate of success of terrorist attacks. How many people died as a result of terrorist attacks before the system we now use was in place? Say, over about two decades? 4,000, give or take?

Now, adjust that for how many actually died on the airplanes, as for many reasons that have nothing to do with racial profiling a 9/11-style "bring down a building full of people" attack probably isn't going to work again. They're going to be limited to blowing-up/crashing a single plane. If they even manage to be successful at that.

I mean sure, you can act like the only reason planes aren't dropping left and right is because of the security systems we're using now (profiling and all). But history from about September of 2001 back doesn't support this hypothesis.

No one cares to be forced into anything, we wouldn't expect things to change for us if we were in another part of the world, why should it be expected here?
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Because this is America, and in theory people are allowed to keep large portions of their own culture if it doesn't infringe on the rights of others? What changes are they asking of you that are so heinous? Scanning your own bacon? Gee, that's horrible. Asking employers to let them pray during the workday? Hey, if they make that time up later I see no issue. Even if they don't I see little problem with it...not much different than smoke breaks. Last I checked nobody is expecting you to adhere to their customs, just to make reasonable concessions so that they can.

And in most cases (the taxi thing being an exception) I see no reason why we can't do this.

Sure, if you moved to Iran (or Somalia, or Saudi Arabia, etc.) they probably wouldn't be nearly as accepting of our culture or make any concessions for you. Then again, I don't think we should be using any of those countries as a yardstick by which to measure our own actions.

This is NOT against Muslims, in fact I am not singling out any person or group, but some groups or people are disliked for a reason, a many times earned reason, and then want to cry and say it isn't right or fair
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Next time you whine about the liberals wanting to take your guns, take a long hard look at who is accepted in our community. Should we all be seen as xenophobic, racist rednecks in favor of wiping out a race/culture? I mean, looking at this thread I personally don't see why we as a group should be trusted with firearms.

But no, we shouldn't judge firearms owners by the words of people like marlboroman84, and we shouldn't judge an entire race/culture by the actions of a handful of hijackers. Especially since marlboroman84 is probably representative of a greater portion of firearms enthusiasts than Osama Bin Laden is of Muslims.
 
But history from about September of 2001 back doesn't support this hypothesis.
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Go check you history a little closer. Remember flight 800 and many others and hijackings? and other such travesties? It has slowed considerably and hopefully Will continue in the present direction.

it doesn't infringe on the rights of others
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?

But it is infringing.
I need to get home with tomorrow mornings bacon and tonights wine for dinner. You say I can't ride in the cab? Gimmie a break, not infringing, when it's been Ok for decades and decades?

I personally don't see why we as a group should be trusted with firearms
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Man thats out there, I kinda think WA is right, I know I am done here.
 
Profiling simply seeks to make the most of limited resources. Most, but not all, serial murderers are white males. Neither the Koran nor Islam is an enemy of America, but radical Muslims are.

If you're searching for a serial murderer, odds favor the suspect to be a white male. John Malvo and Aileen Wuornos being exceptions that prove the presumption.

If you're searching for a terrorist, odds favor the suspect being a Sunni Muslim (Al-Qaeda). Of course Timothy McVeigh is another example that proves it is not an absolute but a probability.

There is nothing bigoted about applying resources where they may do the most good.
 
So if a Christian, working a news stand. Decides he will refuse any one trying to buy a dirty magazine from his employer gets fired.

Then the same happens to a Muslim who refuses to check out pork.

There's a difference?
 
But it is infringing.
I need to get home with tomorrow mornings bacon and tonights wine for dinner. YOu say I can't ride in the cab? Gimmie a break, not infringing.
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A majority of Muslim cab drivers don't have a problem with that...it's only a subset that are causing that problem. And I'll agree that I think the City of Minneapolis needs to deal with that.

So, I agree on the cab issue. Though I actually think there's an interesting debate to be had on that one issue alone. How about the horrible infringement of having to swipe your own bacon across a scanner (or wait 20 seconds or so)? Too much?

Go check you history a little closer. Remember flight 800 and many others and hijackings? and other such travesties? It has slowed considerably and hopefully Will continue in the present direction.
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I do remember Flight 800. And there were others. You do me a favor, and start tallying up the deaths. For extra credit, tally up deaths on American flights, that our security could have stopped.

Somebody is suggesting that perhaps "thousands" of lives have been saved by our current procedures at airports. I think that statistically, taking history into account, it's likely that no lives have been saved, and that if any have it's probably closer to a hundred, not thousands.

Profiling simply seeks to make the most of limited resources. Most, but not all, serial murderers are white males. Neither the Koran nor Islam is an enemy of America, but radical Muslims are.

If you're searching for a serial murderer, odds favor the suspect to be a white male. John Malvo and Aileen Wuornos being exceptions that prove the presumption.
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As soon as they start kicking in doors of random white males and stopping and searching them on the street to make sure they don't have the severed heads of coeds on them, then this comparison will become valid.
 
So if a Christian, working a news stand. Decides he will refuse any one trying to buy a dirty magazine from his employer gets fired.

Then the same happens to a Muslim who refuses to check out pork.

There's a difference?
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Of course not, provided the Christian is still willing to sell the pornography, but simply doesn't want to physically handle it. If he simply allows the customer to handle it, or another newstand employee to handle it, then what's the issue? Customer still gets their porn, without forcing the newstand employee to do something against his religion.

Or are you not understanding that the Muslims who "refuse to check out pork" are actually just asking the customer to handle it themselves, or another employee. It's not like they're sending people to the back of the line left and right, or telling them they're not allowed to buy it.

Ore are we about to take a trip down a slippery slope?
 
I'm a liberal democrat, but **** em. We need racial profiling, stop kidding yourselves. You think it's coincidence most of the terrorist attacks on the USA are planned/carried out by a small particular group of people? Please...
 
Because your being paid to do a specific job. To check out the products of your employer. If your religion handicaps you in doing so then you aren't fit to perform that specific job.
 
As soon as they start kicking in doors of random white males and stopping and searching them on the street to make sure they don't have the severed heads of coeds on them, then this comparison will become valid.
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Wow, that is taking hyperbole to a whole new level. I wasn't aware that profiling and eliminating the Fourth Amendment were comparable. Plus who was talking about kicking in doors? :confused:

Your righteous indignation and belief that your views are morally superior are duly noted.
 
Wow, that is taking hyperbole to a whole new level. I wasn't aware that profiling and eliminating the Fourth Amendment were comparable. Plus who was talking about kicking in doors?
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Fair enough. Then as soon as white males are selected for additional screening wherever they go in order to check for the heads of coeds, then your comparison becomes valid.

The point you obviously missed is that your whole "we profile white males as serial killers" statement makes no sense and bears no relevance, because white males as a whole are completely unaffected by this supposed profiling.

Because your being paid to do a specific job. To check out the products of your employer. If your religion handicaps you in doing so then you aren't fit to perform that specific job.
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See, and I'm not entirely sure but I think the law disagrees with you. And even if it didn't then I would, because I think that the standard to be applied here is whether the religious objection causes a substantial obstruction to the business. In this case (not scanning pork) it doesn't. In some cases (the only pharmacist on duty refusing to fill birth control prescriptions) it does. Oddly, the latter has (IIRC) been protected by law...so certainly the former should be.

I'm a liberal democrat, but **** em. We need racial profiling, stop kidding yourselves. You think it's coincidence most of the terrorist attacks on the USA are planned/carried out by a small particular group of people? Please...
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I'm assuming "'em" means that you yourself aren't one of them? How generous of you to decide how they should be treated then. Again, if there's one way to ensure that Muslims stop sympathizing with terrorist (or becoming them) it's singling them out for "special" treatment.

I know, we could also grab random Muslims and whisk them away to foreign countries to be "interrogated" for a few months, then when we figure out we have nothing on them we can just dump them back home without charges and without an apology. That'll really win some hearts and minds.
 
It sounds to me like not very many of you fly. I have six or eight times since 9/11 and had to go through extra screening all but one. I am about as white American as they come. Two of the times I was with my wife and daughter. So I am wondering where you are getting your information that only Muslims are having to go through this. IMO it is a small inconvience for the price of safety. I think some of you need to get out more.
 
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