More open carry guys scaring the public

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Again who cares what you think about legal open carry of a side arm? If it is legal in my state and where I am at that moment, AND I am not drawing attention to myself, and just going about my business, what is the problem? I have as much right to protect myself with open carry as you do with concealed carry . Odds are I follow the law closer than some of you do. How many of you honestly, ALWAYS, EVERY TIME, disarm yourself before entering any building with a sign saying no weapons allowed. I would bet some of you never do, unless it is a government building.
 
Maybe Grisham went out to have a good day with his son.
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I doubt guys like that really do. They set out looking for controversy.

Honestly, if YouTube didn't exist, would we be seeing this behavior? Nope.
 
Again who cares what you think about legal open carry of a side arm?
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Many who OC specifically state that they consider one of their main goals while OC'ing to be advancing the cause of OC in specific and RKBA in general. That is certainly true of the folks who have been demonstrating in TX.

In that case, what others think about your legal open carry is critically important. If a person is trying to positively impact the opinions of other people then it's not possible for that person to pretend that what other people think doesn't matter.
If it is legal in my state and where I am at that moment, AND I am not drawing attention to myself, and just going about my business, what is the problem?
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Maybe there's no problem at all. Maybe there's a significant problem. It all depends on the circumstances/context. If, for example, in the course of going about your business the presence of your gun freaks people out, then if you care about influencing people positively, that's a problem.

By the way, you are sneaking some circular reasoning into your question. Because you assume that you are not drawing attention to yourself, you find it easy to conclude that you are not drawing attention to yourself. This is called "begging the question" and is a logical fallacy. In reality, in some circumstances, openly wearing a gun constitutes drawing attention to yourself regardless of how innocuous/inconspicuous you otherwise appear.

Think about a person wearing fluorescent green clothes and a traffic cone orange hat that is 3 feet tall. That person might be going about his business and not TRYING to draw attention to himself, but that doesn't mean he won't be drawing attention to himself. He's going to stand out and draw attention even if everything else he does is completely normal and everyday routine. I'm not saying that would be the same as wearing a gun openly, just pointing out that what a person wears can draw attention even if the person is not doing anything special in any other respect to draw attention.
 
Quote from Social A.
Again who cares what you think about legal open carry of a side arm?
If it is legal in my state and where I am at that moment, AND I am not drawing attention to myself-not drawing attention to yourself is precicely what we are speaking of-, and just going about my business, what is the problem? - I don't see a problem when you put it that way-I have as much right to protect myself with open carry as you do with concealed carry- of course you do, who said you didn't?- . Odds are I follow the law closer than some of you do.- that is a huge supposition/pure speculation- How many of you honestly, ALWAYS, EVERY TIME, disarm yourself before - I can & do carry when there are signs posted in stores asking me not to, CONCEALED, thus no one knows itI violate NO LAW by carrying concealed in a store with "no guns signs"-entering any building with a sign saying no weapons allowed. I would bet some of you never do, unless it is a government building.

I introduced my comments in red to distinguish my comments from Mr. Social A.

By the way, my c.w. permit enables me to carry anywhere in the continental U.S. Some buildings excepted-sensible you see. i.e. schools, bars, Federal Buildings, Courts, etc.
Who is arguing that YOU can't open carry? Some think it foolish, don't remember ever seeing anyone saying o/c should be illegal.
What has most all of us gun owners in an uproar is the brandishing of long guns in public places to make some kind of point.
Honestly Mr. S.A. I don't know what your agruments are about?????????
With respect.
 
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Many who OC specifically state that they consider one of their main goals while OC'ing to be advancing the cause of OC in specific and RKBA in general.
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They claim that, but where is the message? I don't see them making any coherent statements, delivering literature, or...well, anything besides carrying guns.

Suzie Soccer Mom doesn't know anything about the 2nd Amendment. She just knows that a bunch of guys with rifles just stampeded into the restaurant while she's trying to eat a quiet lunch.

The "nobody says anything when I do it" coyness is a lie. Suzie may not say anything to their faces (because they've got guns), but they're oblivious to what opinions she's forming.

And guess who's going to call the corporate office of that restaurant to complain that she feels unsafe? Suzie. Maybe she'll get her friends to do so as well. The folks at corporate don't care about the 2nd Amendment; all they know is that they need to appease jumpy customers.

Our inability to understand that is how we lose.
 
Jeager106,

Thanks for proving my point. I don't open carry where the property owner posts no weapons because whether I agree or not it is his right as the property owner. You choose to usurp his rights and carry anyway. Remind me who potentially presents a worse public image? Me following the property owners wishes or you ignoring them and doing as you please?

After this exchange I have decided that I will begin asking anyone coming into my home if they are carrying concealed. Because it is MY home and I have the right to deny access if I choose. Lie to me and odds are you won't be invited back.
 
JohnKSa,

You like to speculate and project your perceptions on to me and my experiences. Sorry my experiences aren't what you believe they should be.

I have NEVER had any type of confrontation while open carrying. No other customer has said a word to me, apparently they have never said anything to store employees either because no store employee has ever said anything to me either. On top of that the police have never arrived to question me about my gun.

But again, I go about my business, don't fidget, act nervous, touch my gun every 3 seconds, or posture. I blend in like every other shopper.
 
You like to speculate and project your perceptions on to me and my experiences.
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You need to read my post again. I said nothing about you or your experiences, what you do or don't do in public, or whether anyone has confronted you or not. In fact, if you hadn't placed my name at the beginning of my post, there would be no reason for me to think that your post was responding to anything I posted.

You asked some simple questions and I gave you accurate (but not so simple) answers.
 
S.A. The "store" is not a person, ergo usurping no ones rights.
"Public image",??????? WHAT public image????
Carrying concealed present ZERO public image.
Your home is absolutely not in any way shape or form any part of this, ah,
discussion.
You tend to confuse persons with businesses, a private home with public open carry and on & on ad nauseum.
Senseless arguments are, well, senseless.
 
Exactly true. Explain how YOU are not violating the property rights of a business owner that clearly does not want firearms on his property when you ignore the sign and carry there anyway?
 
Social Anarchist,I assume your handle makes a statement.

Perhaps you believe true Liberty exists in Anarchy.

Two examples of near anarchy I can think of in the last decade have existed in Somalia and Haiti.Not much effective government,a "Free for All" where thugs rule,hold all the food stocks,and to eat,women"serve".Utopia?

Few laws are necessary where people practice responsible behavior.

I remember "Safe and Prudent" was the Montana speed limit.If more folks knew "catch and release" feels pretty good,maybe better than a stringer of 27 fish..there would not be limits.

As I raised my daughter:"You demonstrate Responsibilty,I will allow you Freedom"

And we who love Freedom are about driving safely,not killing all the fish,etc...Freedom loving people would rather be bound by their own good judgement and responsibility.

And those who push,who impose themselves on others,who cause people to write their Congressman and newspapers are the spearhead of anti-freedom.

To paraphrase"If you build it(the lawful yet irresponsible behavior)They will come.(The laws restricting freedom).

I think it is interesting:Many of the staff here at TFL have spoken out that the OC demonstrators are hurting the cause of firearms freedom.There have been many rational,thoughtful comments .A pretty good case has been made..

I suggest,in the face of that,some folks try a reality check.Take a deep breath,re-examine your position.Where are we going with this,what is the outcome...

Or is "Occupy Wall Street" going to be the model for guns?
 
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HiBC,

The name doesn't mean anything. I am the typical average rural guy that has worked hard my whole life. Pretty much followed the rules, but I have never been afraid to speak up, or demonstrate if I felt the need. I believe in sensible rules and laws for society. It is when rules and laws run amok that society suffers most.

I have said repeatedly here, and I will say it once more for clarification, I do not agree with their tactics. I do not believe it is beneficial for gun rights. My beef is throwing ALL those that Open Carry into the same category of being derogatory to gun rights.
 
^^^^^ I have read this whole thread. Seems to me you just like to argue. While you may do that, the fact remains that "in your face" insistence of stating your rights is probably not advancing your cause. If I or my family ever entered an establishment where a bunch of folks were open carrying, I would not hang around to see what the drill was. I would leave. Yes, you are making a point. . . And you are losing the war.
 
My beef is throwing ALL those that Open Carry into the same category of being derogatory to gun rights.
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People who aren't directly involved with the practice (which is most of the American population) aren't going to be able to make the distinction. They don't know there's a difference between these open carry folks and those open carry folks. Thanks to recent events, many are going to think of guys with rifles in Chipotle when they hear the phrase "open carry."

Everyone wants to make fun of publications like the Huffington Post, but millions of people read that site. Many people form opinions based on what they read there. As a culture, we need to get our heads out of the sand and realize that. We can scream bias all we want--it doesn't change that.

The editors at those publications want to make us look bad, and the OCT guys are practically phoning in material for them to use. Is it fair or accurate? No, but screaming "that's not fair" has never won a political debate. We have to take the hand we're given.

If there's a group of open carry folks who don't want to be associated with the OCT tactics, why are we hearing so little from them, and so late in the game? In terms of general public perception, the damage is done.
 
This thread is titled ".....scaring pople" by open carry with a picture of 2 people with rifles slug over the shoulders in public places.
This thread has gone way off topic and a few have chosen to drag
the "self" into the discussion & it's getting personal. I choose to disengage
before someone gets outright flammed to the detriment of this fine board.:(
 
SocialAnarchist said:
Again who cares what you think about legal open carry. How many of you honestly, ALWAYS, EVERY TIME, disarm yourself before entering any building with a sign saying no weapons allowed. I would bet some of you never do, unless it is a government building.
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I always thought those signs were more of a suggestion. ;) and kind of like the speed limit. As long it's concealed or your not going more than over 5-10 miles over limit NP.
Airport security check lines & federal courthouses with metal detectors are different like high water signs on roadways.
 
Here's my take, for what it's worth, as a Texan.

I may support open carry as a concept, but look what happens when you put it into effect. A flood of complaints to restaurants, who then close their doors to OC, legal or not. A flood of newspaper stories, showing people openly carrying long guns. My understanding is that, in some cases, the restaurants are simply asking people to leave their long guns at home (since OC'ing handguns is illegal everywhere in Texas). Why? In response to customers who don't really want to be eating next to a guy with an AR slung over his shoulder. I don't blame them.

I would never call for a ban on that kind of behavior, but I'd ask those who insist on OC simply because it's not illegal to reconsider. There are hordes of people to whom firearms are way down on their list of issues -- until the aforementioned AR owner sits next to them and their young children. Then, it's likely they will take the simple step of emailing the restaurant chain and saying they're done patronizing that chain until they refuse to allow OC on the premises. They also will likely look negatively at future attempts to improve gun laws here and will make their feelings known to those who they elect to represent them in Austin.

So you've turned people who were on the fence about guns or even leaning towards support in the other direction. We lose a potential supporter and maybe all his or her friends. Is it worth it?

Rather than seeing this enhancing the cause of OC, I see it as a major roadblock. OC of handguns will likely come up again when the legislature reconvenes next year, but with all the negative press, I'm guessing it will once again fail to garner enough support to pass.

We in Texas are blessed with a very supportive legislature and governor, and with a concealed carry law that is effective and has attracted hundreds of thousands of gun owners to carrying concealed, to the benefit of all. Sabotaging that good will by opening carrying a long gun in public is counter-productive and threatens to cost us all the progress we've made. As many others have said, just because you CAN do something legally doesn't mean you should.

The original NRA statement was a bit strong, and I wish they has just stayed out of it, because it will cost them some of the membership gains they've made since the left has made gun control one of its key issues.

If you're one of the OC folks who have been staging these rallies, please reconsider. You are not doing your cause, or the cause of the legal carry of firearms, any good.
 
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Tom,

Again my point, and the way I open carry, is to be as invisible about it as possible. I am not in anyone's face, I am not announcing to anyone that I have a gun, I am not fondling my gun or making a huge display of carrying, I am going about my business and minding my own business. I am obeying the law and following the wishes of property owners who do not want me to carry on their property and I will continue to do so once I have my concealed carry permit.

That is the difference between me and those CO demonstrators. I am not trying to make any statement, I am just trying to be ready to protect myself and others.

I don't think anyone is changing anyone else's mind here.
 
Again my point, and the way I open carry, is to be as invisible about it as possible.
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That's going to be difficult.

You sound like you're one of the responsible ones. You know the difference, and I know the difference.

The problem we have is, millions of people don't know the difference. In their minds open carry means jerks parading around the local Squat & Gobble with rifles. The media, with the help of OCT, has created the perception.

As usual, the gun culture is late to respond and on the defensive from the outset.
 
Geetarman,

If you have read the whole thread how can you possibly point to me and compare me to those openly carrying rifles and making a huge production of it? I have said repeatedly that I disagree with their tactics. By intentionally misstating my opinion you seem to be intentionally argumentative.
 
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