more from JPFO on Florida traffic stop and tasering of driver, and another item too.

[liliysdad]

If she had been polite, and willing, she would have gotten a phone call when we got to the station, and after she was booked. Not Before. I apply the same rules to those who are cooperative, and those who arent.

The only difference would be that if she were cooperative, I would have filed Municipal charges (i.e.) a ticket and muncipal bond after arrest. If she wasnt, as this lady, I would have filed District charges, and she would have spen the night in the county jail.

By the way, in Oklahoma, driving under Suspension is an arrestable offense, and in my city, it is a required arrest, and 234.00 cash bond.

 

[Trip20]

In all basically your argument has no merit.

Your opinion, like that of the anti gun crowd, is based solely on emotion and how something appears. Both of which have no place in any debate other than trying to get ones girlfriend not to leave

I do not have an argument. I have an opinion. And for some reason you've decided to latch on to my opinion like pitbull. I'm not sure opinions require merit joab - opinions are kind of involuntary. You see/hear something and almost like flinching - it's just a response to what your experiencing. C'mon joab, are you expecting us to believe that you go through life opinionless until you've mastered the subject in all facets? And that you walk around like a cyborg w/out emotion? No wonder your girlfriend is leaving you.

If I were defending the officer in a court of law, then I would have an argument, which would require merit. My opinion, is based solely on the video I watched - the same as you. And, my opinion is as much valid as yours ('least that's what Dr. Phil tells me), especially since your no more qualified to draw conclusion than I. This entire time I was under the impression you were an LEO. Not sure where I came to this conclusion other than your constant pounding of the fact I have no ground on which to base an opinion w/out expertise - therefore you must have expertise.

You don't like my opinion that's fine with me - really. But don't assert that I'm unqualified to have an opinion. My opinion is based on a video - and my reaction to the same. I compare what I see, to what I think I would do in the same situation. Of course I have no formal LEO training (quote this sentence to show how I have a total lack of knowledge and expertise). But I don't think that's required to form an opinion either.

I also believe that a LEO should exercise judgement beyond that of their training and not just act on the basis that their department will back their actions. Officers do this all the time. They can write more tickets than they do - they choose to let certain things slide for whatever reason.

I've been wrong before joab and I may be now but that's a matter of opinion as well. If I were to become an LEO tomorrow and experience what they experience on a daily basis - I may have a complete different take on this video. I'm not naive enough to believe otherwise. But, as a lowly citizen I formed an opinion based on my current understanding and experience with physical confrontation - all be it from a lowly civilian point of view. Damn, what was I thinking.

Edit: As an aside - if I were serving on a jury for the civil case (or criminal case for that matter) which will likely arise from this incident - I wouldn't find in the plaintiff's favor based on the current evidence. I may not agree in his exact approach, but I can't convict him, or award this woman a dime because he was well w/in his right to act as he did.

 

[TheeBadOne]

It appears to me like she believes that she has the right to resist arrest, and is trying to get advice from someone she knows as to how best to do that, while she ignores the police. Dumb idea.

Actually, I suspect it was much sinister than that. I think she was "rallying the troops" to respond to her location and "adjust" the "racist Officer".....

 

[Trip20]

I think that's very likely TBO. Which is all the more reason to get the arrest completed quickly. An argument in favor of the taser.

 

[Spotted Owl]

In cases like this, I wonder if there's a difference between what the police say publicly for media consumption ("It was a righteous bust") versus what they say internally ("I'll have your ass if you ever pull crap like that again".)

 

[Powderman]

Spotted Owl:

I'll be the first one to say it....

You bet your bottom that there is a difference! And, police departments will NOT hold on to someone who violates someone's civil rights.

Trip20:

What you post is a direct demonstration with the problems of practicing what is known as "community policing". And no, this is NOT directed at you, just an observation.

The public has an image or belief of what the image of police officers should be, and what they should do and act like.

The police officer knows what the reality of the situation is--that sometimes, you cannot present a "correct" image, and get the job done.

I was going to post a question here--but I'm not going to jack the thread. I'll start another one--with a hypoothetical situation or two.

 

[Trip20]

Powderman, maybe so. I think we all have an opinion of how LEO's should act and what they should do. If that's "community policing" so be it. I didn't take your post personal at all.

I also stated I wouldn't convict this officer of any wrong doing in the court of law (civil or criminal). So while my opinion of what he's done isn't necessarily an "all clear, here's your pat on the back"... I do admit (as in my prior post) that I'm not an LEO, and that if I were, I would most likely have a different opinion on this video. Given this statement I think it's clear that I'm no LEO hater, and that I'm able to seperate emotion from opinion as much as possible.

I firmly believe that an LEO should base his actions on the situation at hand. A guage of sorts: ______ severity = _______ response.

To me, his response to the "threat level" (severity) at hand (especially given he had backup on scene) was, just possibly, more than needed to fascilitate the arrest. But I'm completely unqualified to feel this way.

 

[joab]

I do not have an argument. I have an opinion

An opinion voiced in an open forum for the purpose of discussion is an argument, or debate if you will

And for some reason you've decided to latch on to my opinion like pitbull.

Most of my responses, after the first response, have been in response to your responses. If you don't like them ignore them like everyone else does, I usually go away.

'mon joab, are you expecting us to believe that you go through life opinionless until you've mastered the subject in all facets

Yes that's call being open minded not cyborg minded.
Any opinion I have is based on personal observation and any that I voice are based on experience or research to back my opinion up, once that opinion is formed I'm pretty stubborn about it, after all I worked hard on that opinion.
There are many things that I have no opinion on and many more that I have only formed somewhat of an opinion but not determined which on side of the fence I will fall .

You see/hear something and almost like flinching

And that's called being ruled by your emotions, a weakness I do not give in to(much)

No wonder your girlfriend is leaving you.

Where did I say that my girlfriend is leaving. Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point

My opinion, is based solely on the video I watched - the same as you.

Wrong, my opinion is based on a little bit of knowledge of what actually happens when someone is tazed. Yours is based on scary pictures

This entire time I was under the impression you were an LEO

Never made that claim or implication. I actually stated that I had family members and implied that I have friends who are LEO and in my first response to you I clearly implied that I was not LEO

Never claimed first hand knowledge only research. While you refer to shocking images

because he was well w/in his right to act as he did.

Now that's all I have been saying. Now that we agree we can be friends again.
And we don't even have to agree to disagree. We, or at least I, can stop now.

 

[TheeBadOne]

 

[Trip20]

I said:

C'mon joab, are you expecting us to believe that you go through life opinionless until you've mastered the subject in all facets

To which you replied:

Yes that's called being open minded not cyborg minded. Any opinion I have is based on personal observation and any that I voice are based on experience or research to back my opinion up, once that opinion is formed I'm pretty stubborn about it, after all I worked hard on that opinion.

I said:

My opinion, is based solely on the video I watched - the same as you.

To which you replied:

Wrong, my opinion is based on a little bit of knowledge of what actually happens when someone is tazed. Yours is based on scary pictures

On one hand you say you master the subject before you form your opinion... then all it takes is a little bit of knowledge? Hell I even have a little bit of knowledge so I guess I'm as right as you?

I agree joab we can stop now.

It's been an enjoyable debate.

 

[drinks]

Stop

I have had 8 family members who are or have been LEO's.
they are about evenly divided between closet SS types who beat their wives and kids and stomp drunks for thrills and Dudley Dorights who stop everyone they see commiting an offense and writing them up.
A friend who was police chief gave his wife a speeding ticket, as well as all members of the city council and the Mayor.
He was fired 3 times by 2 mayors and re hired 3 times because the citizens marched on the Mayor's house and threatened to run the Mayor out of town on a rail.
Some good , some bad, the bad get the most space in the press.

 

[joab]

any that I voice are based on experience or research to back my opinion up,

On one hand you say you master the subject before you form your opinion..

Where in that comment do I claim mastery of a subject before forming an opinion.

It's much harder to twist words when they are still available for visualreview.

Does looking further than one video makes one an expert or does refusal to look further than one video simply make one impressionable.


One scene from one incident does not give a person a little knowlege on an entire subject, it simply leaves an impression that should encourage the truly interested to look further

And I leave you with that.

 

[Trip20]

Where in that comment do I claim mastery of a subject before forming an opinion.

Look at your Post #88:
You quoted my statement:

C'mon joab, are you expecting us to believe that you go through life opinionless until you've mastered the subject in all facets?

You replied with a YES:

Yes that's call being open minded not cyborg minded.

...

It's much harder to twist words when they are still available for visualreview.

No sh__.

 

[joab]

Got me

C'mon joab, are you expecting us to believe that you go through life opinionless until you've mastered the subject in all facets?

Mastered? No, but examined further than simply the outward appearance? Yes

That's what the post actually was, obviously your comp screen is malfunctioning

 

[LAK]

joab

She was driving with a suspended license.
An criminal offense in Fla.

Well, not everyone is in agreement on such things being "criminal" (see related threads and subject matter).

There are far greater actual crimes - with actual victims or real property damage - that occur by the minute in any given State while police resources are tied up doing this nonsense.

Citation(s), tow the car, and "Mam, you'll have to find your own way home. See you court ... and have a nice day!".

 

[joab]

Well, not everyone is in agreement on such things being "criminal"There are far greater actual crimes - with actual victims or real property damage - that occur by the minute in any given State while police resources are tied up doing this nonsense.

I agree but it doesn't matter. A suspended license in Fla is an arrestable criminal offense.
I don't know whether cops are granted any leeway, but if they are coming across as hostile and semi deranged is probably not the best way to gain any favor with them
I say criminal because you can be arrested for it as opposed to infaction that you get ticketed for. I may be using the term incorrectly

 

[Trapp]

Why is it that having a suspended liscence not seen as criminal? Anyone know what she did to get it suspended? Unpaid parking tickets maybe, she seems the type that wouldn't pay them........Or maybe DWI, Who knows? Maybe a reckless driving in there? Maybe she has an assault on her record the cop found out about. Everyone is allowed to have their opinions, but a Video does not tell the whole story. I don't believe anyone can watch a video and justify certain actions......Period.