more from JPFO on Florida traffic stop and tasering of driver, and another item too.
- Thread starter alan
- Start date
It was ex[plained later on
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'Nuff said.
You are complaining about the effects of something you have never experienced, based solely on how it looks.
I have known several people who have been tazed.
I have been stun gunned years ago
It hurts. it's scary, but it leaves no physical damage.
You say the officer should be advised on when to use a taser. Who should he go to for that advice, you who have no experience or to his training officer who has.
As much as I despise the circle the wagon cops that defend even the most blatant abuses by other cops, I feel the same about the state haters that see abuse and conspiracy behind every encounter with Leo and Co.
Ride with a cop once or twice and see what really goes on before you pass judgment on a job you know nothing about
joab said:
Hey Joab, my father is a retired LEO. I have much respect for LE in general. I haven't persecuted this officer whatsoever. If you look back I've said (I think more than once) that this lady was asking for it and definitely deserved force. So please drop the holier than thou attitude.
Just because I've never been tasered (you haven't either), doesn't mean I'm unqualified to say I'd rather not have the experience. I don't need to experience a taser to know I don't like the feeling of electricity. I've been bit enough times wiring homes.
Be realistic. We're not talking about the need to "overpower someone"... we're talking about a 100lb woman and a 200lb trained officer. No wait, there were TWO officers. If you want me to believe the only way to fascilitate this arrest was to use a taser - forget it.joab said:
From my comments I have no idea how you've arrived at the conclusion that I'm a "state hater" and that I see "conspiracy behind every encounter with Leo or Co." I'm assuming this comment has to do with some other posts made by other board members. If my assumption is wrong, please clue me in as to how you have this opinion of me.
I've ridden with 3 different police officers. Neither of which was my father. Twice in Anne Arundel County Maryland, and once with the Baltimore City police.
I don't envy their job whatsoever, I know it's hard, I know it's dangerous.
Don't imply that the difficulty of one's occupation gives them sanctuary from judgement. No one in this world has that luxury - especially an occupation that works so closely with the public.
That's right sport, you ain't the only one here.
For whatever reason you have decided in spite of a total lack of knowledge let alone expertise on the subject that you are better suited to determine the amount of force necessary to arrest someone that doesn't want to be arrested ( And I'm the one with the holier than thou tude) than the officers or their training officer
So be it.
The woman was not injured in any way, the cops did not have to waste time on the idiot and the scene was cleared in minutes
But somehow that is less desirable than physically slinging her to the pavement.
You have made me see the light.
From now on all you cops out there say pretty, pretty please and if that doesn't work go back to the old black jacks and sap gloves, but please don't hurt us with those medieval electric shock devices.
One of these days I'm gonna learn
Going into law enforcement?
Wait until the first time some sweet, innocent 5'1" petite female goes from zero to hellion in a half second flat. I guarantee that will change your outlook on female arrestees.
Friend, you have no idea. Trust me, with all due respect--you do NOT have any idea just how violent someone of ANY size can get when they decide they don't want to go to jail.
So, everyone's up in arms about the Taser. Tough. Live with it. For the record, it is more effective than ANY pain compliance device I have ever seen. It also leaves NO residual effects, and is over with the second the current stops. Not like OC spray, which burns even though your face is under water.
Folks, here's the bottom line. Assuming that driving while suspended is an arrestable offense (criminal traffic), if I stop you, run your license and you come back suspended, you WILL be placed under custodial arrest.
Your ONLY choice, and your ONLY option, is how you want to wear those cuffs.
If you want to wear them loosely, just turn around, and put your hands behind your back, palms outward please.
If you want them hard, then resist. Bear this in mind.
What you WOULD do in that situation is irrelevant. TOTALLY irrelevant.
The fact is that the officer had developed probable cause to arrest. At that point, YOU HAVE NO OPTIONS.
I will do what is necessary to arrest, when I have developed probable cause. If a person wants to escalate to a Taser deployment, fine.
If they're violent enough, we can go to OC and batons, too.
What the heck, if an arrestee is stupid enough--and assaultive enough, or has a weapon that can hurt or kill me--well, say hello to Mr. Colt.
Bottom line: call the NAACP, Operation PUSH, JPFO, the UN, NRA, SAF, US Congress! I don't give a rip!
If I have probable cause, you will not walk away. Count on it.
TheeBadOne
Sure it represents a change; language has often been the tool of political change agents.
Introduction, a certain amount of common usage - however erroneous, and they put it in the dictionary. Once a generation has grown up with it in common use, and it is in the books - it begins to be accepted.
Presto - a subtle change in political ideology.
Newspeak.
Sure it represents a change; language has often been the tool of political change agents.
Introduction, a certain amount of common usage - however erroneous, and they put it in the dictionary. Once a generation has grown up with it in common use, and it is in the books - it begins to be accepted.
Presto - a subtle change in political ideology.
Trapp
Had I been Officer PO - I'd let her get on with it. What was she going to do, "run away"? And while she was finishing her call - I'd been sitting in my car writing her citation(s). If the subject(s) gave me any real concern about my safety I'd had a backup rolling.
I think there is a big hangup centering around this obsession with perceived control - when the overall management of a situation actually loses a real measure of control and safety.
Had she been armed with a handgun or any other firearm and intended to shoot him, I would argue that Officer PO placed himself in greater danger as soon as he started to get all excited and take his taser in hand. At that point she could have suddenly pulled a handgun with her free hand and drilled him.
The biggest problem I have with this is a general emerging trend; this use of an electronic shock device being used as "persuaders" to compliance on traffic violations and other minor incidents.
Had I been Officer PO - I'd let her get on with it. What was she going to do, "run away"? And while she was finishing her call - I'd been sitting in my car writing her citation(s). If the subject(s) gave me any real concern about my safety I'd had a backup rolling.
I think there is a big hangup centering around this obsession with perceived control - when the overall management of a situation actually loses a real measure of control and safety.
Had she been armed with a handgun or any other firearm and intended to shoot him, I would argue that Officer PO placed himself in greater danger as soon as he started to get all excited and take his taser in hand. At that point she could have suddenly pulled a handgun with her free hand and drilled him.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
She wasn't being written a citation, she was being arrested.
Well, let me then add for clarifcation.
"Another problem is the principle of arrests for traffic violations like this one."
and
"I definately would not have placed someone under arrest for the traffic offense cited. Not Constitutional IMO, and an utter waste of police resources".
"Another problem is the principle of arrests for traffic violations like this one."
and
"I definately would not have placed someone under arrest for the traffic offense cited. Not Constitutional IMO, and an utter waste of police resources".
I thought I was done with this thread, but some of you guys have taken the "it's just a 100 lb woman" approach. You ask "what's she gonna do?" The last time I stopped and asked myself that I got a straight razor pulled on me. That's why it was the LAST time I had that thought.
Trip20 said:
joab said:
As an aid, here's the definition of persecute:
per·se·cute:
1. To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.
2. To annoy persistently; bother.
I did none of the above, sport. The comments I made were just opinion and in no way fit the definition.
I don't need expertise to know 2 officers can subdue and arrest a small woman w/out injury and w/out use of a taser. I also do not need expertise to have an opinion.joab said:
Additionally, I never said I was better suited to determine the amount of force necessary to arrest "someone". Again, I have to reel you back in, we're not talking about "someone" we're talking about this individual lady, and this individual incident. Why are you trying to take my comments out of context and to the extreme by implying my comments are about all arrests on "someone". What I have said, is I would not have used the taser. That's it. I never said this guy's badge should be stripped. I never said he should lose his job. Get traffic duty. Or even pay any restitution in a civil case. But I'm still a "cop persecutor" aren't I!
WTF...lol Now your reverting to being sarcastic, delusional, and childish. I'll leave this thread to the bullying likes of you.joab said:
I'm just trying to do it your way.
In all basically your argument has no merit.
Your opinion, like that of the anti gun crowd, is based solely on emotion and how something appears. Both of which have no place in any debate other than trying to get ones girlfriend not to leave
As far as the definition of persecute that you provided, you are in no way able to persecute this officer.
So you'll have to forgive me if I assumed that you were trying to get flarey with your vocabulary..although I think this kinda fits--harass with ill-treatment
As far as bullying
I have simply read your comments and demonstrated your inconsistancies and total lack of knowledge and experience in the matter
Someone can just as easily refer to an idividual if I meant anyone I would have written anyone.
Why are yopu trying to play simple word games to change my statements.
The statement made adequately describes the person in question
CarbineCaleb
New member
To all that's already been said, I will add that it wasn't a misunderstanding - the woman knows she is being arrested - you clearly hear her say into the telephone - "He's arresting me, he's pointing a gun at me" (the taser). Yet, she completely ignores the repeated instructions of the officer, and goes on talking on the telephone.
It appears to me like she believes that she has the right to resist arrest, and is trying to get advice from someone she knows as to how best to do that, while she ignores the police. Dumb idea.
If you're placed under arrest, you need to go with the police. Likewise, if you are convicted of a crime, and sentenced to prison, you need to go - you can't think about whether it's best for you to go. I mean, in informal terms, by breaking laws, you are losing certain freedoms - there does in fact need to be some concrete result from law enforcement and judiciary. Otherwise they could be just be theoretical papers kept in a filing cabinet.
It appears to me like she believes that she has the right to resist arrest, and is trying to get advice from someone she knows as to how best to do that, while she ignores the police. Dumb idea.
If you're placed under arrest, you need to go with the police. Likewise, if you are convicted of a crime, and sentenced to prison, you need to go - you can't think about whether it's best for you to go. I mean, in informal terms, by breaking laws, you are losing certain freedoms - there does in fact need to be some concrete result from law enforcement and judiciary. Otherwise they could be just be theoretical papers kept in a filing cabinet.
Question for the LEOs
If she had been polite or, at least not abrasive and combative, from the onset of the stop and you found that she needed to be arrested for what many would consider a trivial matter.
What are the chances that you would have allowed her to complete her phone call advising a friend or family member that she was being arrested and where they could find her to pay her $50 bail ?