Model 70 sporter in 270 Weatherby magnum

[stagpanther]

Thanks for the thoughtful advice. There's yet another factor in the equation--this rifle is also an heirloom legacy gun so I might be limited in what I can modify taking it out of original configuration. I think I need to get my ducks in a row and make a "choices" presentation.

 

[Pathfinder45]

I recommend trying 150 grain bullets, especially the Nosler Partition, before making alterations to the rifle. How small does a five shot group have to be before the owner is satisfied? It's a hunting rifle....and a very nice one at that.

 

[stagpanther]

I recommend trying 150 grain bullets, especially the Nosler Partition

That is what I zeroed the rifle to; weatherby's 150 gr partitions factory ammo. It shoots them just fine--certainly within specs of what you can expect from a typical weatherby hunting rifle. The issue as I see it is consistency depending upon the position the rifle is held; I think that's why you won't likely find a lightweight hunter with a sporter slim barrel profile in weatherby rifles without a foreend pressure point.

 

[Bart B.]

That is what I zeroed the rifle to; weatherby's 150 gr partitions factory ammo. It shoots them just fine--certainly within specs of what you can expect from a typical weatherby hunting rifle. The issue as I see it is consistency depending upon the position the rifle is held; I think that's why you won't likely find a lightweight hunter with a sporter slim barrel profile in weatherby rifles without a foreend pressure point.

Here's what Weatherby says about their barrels:

We have found through our testing that barrels having a smaller outside diameter than our #3 contour require upward pressure to help stabilize the barrel for increased accuracy. Our free floated barrels have enough rigidity in the barrel for them to be free floated.

I used to shoot matches with the stock maker who designed and made a lot of Weatherby's first stocks. He was also a master class high power rifle competitor who made popular target rifle stocks. He tried to get Roy Weatherby to free float all his rifle barrels for best accuracy but Mr. Weatherby refused. Also suggested the receiver faces be squared up so a 20+ shot accuracy guarantee could be offered instead of 3 shots. Again refused. He quit Weatherby then moved from Southgate, California to Boulder, Nevada to make stocks. P. J. Wright passed some years ago.

 

[stagpanther]

That's some cool trivia Bart--thanks for that. At the end of the day, my feeling is that Roy was first and foremost a hunter's rifle maker. I've come to the conclusion his design philosophy was to make a cartridge that was able to deliver to the hunter the longest, flattest "point blank" range possible--in other words giving average hunters the capability of a high probability of a clean kill out to 400 yds +/- with as little fuss or worry about adjusting elevation/windage as possible.That's just my impression after shooting them, never seen that in writing anywhere.

 

[jmr40]

Most of the Push Feed model 70's are very much under rated and under valued. Especially those made in the 1980's and 1990's. The quality could be a bit spotty during the 60s' and 70's, but that looks like an 80's rifle. Winchester brought back CRF in 1992 with their Classic rifles but kept making the PF versions as their budget guns until going under in 2006. When FN brought the model 70 back in 2008 they discontinued the PF rifles.

You can often find them at very good prices. I've had a few over the years and liked them better than Remington.

The advantages of CRF are often misunderstood. The word "FEED" in the phrase makes people think they FEED more reliably. Not so. There is no difference in the reliability of FEEDING between CRF and PF. And under "normal" hunting conditions with a reasonably clean rifle there is no advantage whatsoever.

CRF's biggest advantage is more a more rugged, simple, fool proof ejection and extraction system. If you're hunting in icy, cold, snowy, muddy, or dusty conditions where the rifle has a good chance of getting filthy they are more likely to extract and eject where a PF could fail.

And on all pre 2008 Winchesters, even the PF rifles, they used one of the most rugged, reliable triggers ever devised. It isn't easy to adjust for the best trigger pull, but is as reliable as ever made.

I have both PF and CRF rifles and most of the time don't have a preference. But when I'm hunting at 11,000' in single digit temps in snow miles from the road that advantage might make a difference.

 

[stagpanther]

Next up is a 416 Weatherby magnum--now that is going to be an experience I'm sure I won't forget. I've got some hard-hitters in recoil, but nothing even close to this.

 

[Dufus]

If it has a break on it, it won't be so bad.

If not, shoot with your mouth closed so you won't swallow any fillings from your teeth.

 

[stagpanther]

If it has a break on it, it won't be so bad.

That's what I figured--I can't find one on Weatherby's site that doesn't have one. I did the math, if the brake cuts about 50% of the recoil that brings it down around 41 ft lbs--which is similar to my 375 ruger which does not have a brake. Not something I want to shoot all day though...especially @ $150 for 20 cartridges.

 

[stagpanther]

Back on subject--I want to shoot some handloads tomorrow for the model 70--but it's headed to 22 below zero tonight in parts of Maine.

 

[reynolds357]

Back on subject--I want to shoot some handloads tomorrow for the model 70--but it's headed to 22 below zero tonight in parts of Maine.

Be a good opportunity to test powder temp sensitivity.

 

[stagpanther]

Be a good opportunity to test powder temp sensitivity.

I already have problems with that--so much so that I've had to shorten timing between shots and keep cartridges "pre-warmed"--basically the opposite of what you do in warm temperatures. It's amazing how much loss in velocity I've seen, some temperature sensitive powders lose 200 fps or more once I get down in the low teens to single digits. As cold as it is today, it's relatively calm and it's going to get stormy again starting tomorrow, so I will go out later this morning (assuming the truck starts, LOL). Thermometer says -2 but should hopefully climb with the sun out.

 

[stagpanther]

Well, I called an executive meeting with the owner--it was his dad's gun so it was his decision to make. My opinion is that the original winchester stock was simply too thin in the areas that would need to be ground out to allow enough room to substantively to allow for meaningful thickness of bedding and material. Or, put another way, I felt it was beyond my skills to succeed in getting enough rigidity while at the same time time allow enough room to truly free float the barrel and adequately reinforce the pillars and lug bed.

So I ended up taking the easy way out--I recommended that he could use a hogue overmolded stock which includes a full-length aluminum bed and reinforced pillars and lug bed. If he or his daughter ever want to put the original stock back on, it's an easy switch-out. While I was at it, I also pulled the scope bases and Leupold dovetail rings and replaced them with winchester's own model 70 1-piece intregal base/rings. This had the added benefit that it gained me a few extra mm's in scope height so I was able to just barely clear the magnification ring throw lever, so I was free to move the scope into a natural position avoiding head squirming. The rings are not as tough as the others and probably will be pounded out of true faster, but they usually have me check them before they go on a hunt.

 

[stagpanther]

Here she is in her new-found glory. I know you pursuits will scream heresy--but I feel pretty good about the rifle being up to the bashing around in the woods and foul weather. Fit, rigid support and free-float are perfect as far as I can tell.

The weather is pretty stormy of late, so I went out this morning in a rare sunny break. Unfortunately it was pretty cold, 8 degrees above zero, so I'll have to redo the zero when it gets warmer. My labradar battery was too spent to handle the cold, so no velocity measurements either. Winds were gusting from about my 5 o'clock at 10 to 15. Of all things to fail--the liner of my thick wool gloves blew out on my shooting hand glove, so my fingers got numb pretty quick, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

The owner wants the gun zeroed at 200 with Weatherby's 150 partition factory load--problem is I used up the last three cartridges I had getting the scope back on target at 200 since everything had changed from the previous set-up. Just out of curiosity I loaded up my own handloads using barnes LRX 129 gr all-copper boattails which I suspect could probably do anything the 150 partitions could. I didn't bother doing a ladder, just selected a moderately warm load I figured would do OK. Had it not been for the one flier lower left this would have been a bettr group--I was pretty surprised it was good as it is considering all the gear and thick gloves etc I had to mess with. I would fork over $800 in heartbeat to the owner for the gun if he'd take it--it outshoots his newer Weatherby's IMO.

About the trijicon scope: The sight piece really takes some getting used to--they recommend using with both eyes open--but my left eye has issues so I have a hard time with that with this particular optic, though it's less of an issue with unmagnified reddots. I trued and leveled the scope to take out any cant but the reticle seems to really cant to the side, so I always doubt myself when I do the job and then go out in the field and things look off. But I trusted the level, and tracking was excellent.

 

[reynolds357]

The trick to Wby is finding the right seat depth. You find it and most of them will really shoot.

 

[stagpanther]

Be a good opportunity to test powder temp sensitivity.

On that note, even though it's not known for temperature insensitivity--accurate magpro did very well in terms of consistency in extreme cold in what few test cartridges I threw together.

 

[Pathfinder45]

The glory is inherent in the Walnut stock. The plastic stock? Not so much. But whatever the owner likes is what matters.

 

[stagpanther]

The glory is inherent in the Walnut stock. The plastic stock? Not so much. But whatever the owner likes is what matters.

I didn't think I could get the walnut stick to hold the receiver steady and free-float the barrel as thin as it is. Anyways, if the owner wants to show the rifle off he can always switch the stocks.

 

[Pathfinder45]

Well, since you have 2 stocks for it now, it would be interesting to see what would happen if you worked up an accurate load in the synthetic free-float stock and then switched back to the original stock to see how it would do with that load.
I'm thinking that the rifle would probably shoot very well in the original stock using Nosler 150 grain Partition bullets fueled with a near max charge of Norma MRP.
I also think that 100 yards is a great range to evaluate an iron-sighted, lever-action rifle in calibers typical to that platform. But for a scoped bolt-action rifle like this, 100 yards is utterly meaningless to evaluate a load that is expected to perform at 300-400 yards and perhaps further. I see from your last photo that you have been shooting at 200, which is certainly better than 100....
I gotta hand it to you though; the weather conditions you are going out in are frigidly challenging! After spending six winters in northern Vermont and seeing what sub-arctic conditions do to challenge vehicles, chainsaws, log-skidders, and everything else.... well it just makes me appreciate that you are out there in those conditions. Anything that you can achieve now, you can almost certainly do better under more favorable conditions without any other changes. I'd recommend 300 yards to evaluate the rifle and ammo, when you get a favorable opportunity.

 

[stagpanther]

But for a scoped bolt-action rifle like this, 100 yards is utterly meaningless to evaluate a load that is expected to perform at 300-400 yards and perhaps further. I see from your last photo that you have been shooting at 200, which is certainly better than 100....

It's not my rifle and I only get to play with them once or twice a year. The daughter wants it zeroed to 200 yds--so that's what she gets. The problem with the original wood stock was that it was too flexible in the foreend, and I don't think I could get enough bedding material in it to stiffen it up without routing out a lot of the wood. That meant the POI shifted pretty easily depending on how it was held/rested. This gun spent a lot of time in wet coastal environment so it had some warping and deformation in the receiver contact points. I just wasn't up for a significant stock project.

While 100 yds might not be a meaningful distance to evaluate longer range performance of a particular cartridge/rifle; I'd say it's hard to argue it's not a very important cardinal distance for test/development. That said, the beauty of the weatherby mag is I can put a shot in at 25 to 30 yds to calculate the zero and it will likely be almost right on at 200.