Mob Attack at Memphis Kroger

[Tom Servo]

It only takes a few times of someone (The beaters) getting shot or getting hurt to most times stop this.

Mobs are unpredictable things, and they're fueled by anger. One person getting shot won't defuse that. There have been plenty of instances in which use of force has only escalated things.

Empty a mag and not bat an eye. Thats a self ddefense situation and what a CHL is for.

That's exactly the sort of public statement that can come back to bite one in a court proceeding.

We're so fixated on guns... what about driving a truck into the crowd? (and not at a crawl, either) I bet that would disperse them.

Seriously?

See my first statement. More likely, the driver would become the enemy, and they would swarm the truck. Who would the courts see as the antagonist? The driver.

In situations from Watts to Aurora to Ferguson, people have entertained the fantasy that they would be a one-man riot dispersal tool by presenting a firearm. That is emphatically not the case. Situations like this are no-win scenarios, and the gun could quickly become a much greater liability than an asset.

 

[zxcvbob]

So what do you recommend? Surrender? Let the mob kill several innocent people? How many will they kill next time?

It is a no win situation. But you do have some choices as to how you lose.

I think the truck thing is worth discussing.

 

[Skans]

So what do you recommend? Surrender? Let the mob kill several innocent people? How many will they kill next time?

Seriously. Carry a gun. Don't deploy it unless you think YOUR life is in imminent danger. And, if you do, shoot the person who is attacking you then try to escape.

Let's not forget that in a combined effort, just here on TFL, we are educating Americans, and the World, on each individual's obligation and right to secure his/her own personal safety. We do not have a moral duty to take up arms against the masses to save those who won't do the same for you, or even themselves. In other words: Save your own ass, and keep preaching why EVERYONE should be armed.

 

[guruatbol]

I've been in a riot. There is nothing you can do except protect yourself.

You should get out of the way, finding cover and if possible call 911.

You would be justified in firing IMHO to save the kid who was knocked out and they were still assaulting. You better have a clear shot and nothing or nobody behind or where if you missed they you would hit. BTW the odds of missing in that type of situation even for trained personnel are very high.

Mel

 

[BarryLee]

Obviously no single individual can take on an entire mob, but maybe you could assist one or two individuals who were being attacked. However, if you’re armed and decided to intervene then get attacked what then. I’m not going to allow people to beat me while I’m carrying a gun, but what happens when I shoot an unarmed teen who was playing a game.

I know we’ve debated similar cases in the past, but I’m really unsure how to handle potential attacks by unarmed assailants. Yes, being physically attacked can be justification to use deadly force, but who knows how the Police, DA or media may respond. Even if you’re cleared it could still change your life forever.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

It is a no win situation. But you do have some choices as to how you lose.

That all depends on how you define "win". Unless me or mine are directly under attack, my responsibility is to get me and them out of harm's way. If I do that, I win.

As much as I would like to help a 3rd party and would under some circumstances, my primary responsibility is taking care of my family and myself for the future of my family.

Little condolence to my wife and young children that daddy "tried to help" and ended up dead. I wonder which of the assaulted persons I died to help will be "doing the right thing" and stepping up to take financial care of my widow and children... for the rest of their lives.

 

[zincwarrior]

That's exactly the sort of public statement that can come back to bite one in a court proceeding.

1. Not in the scenario proposed wherein 100 people were physically attacking me.

2. Good luck with that public statement thing.

You should get out of the way, finding cover and if possible call 911.

There you go. I'd prefer leaving to finding cover, but i think you meant the same thing.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Mobs do not necessarily flee at gun fire. Also you have no idea who in the mob might just shoot back at you.

Drive your truck into it? Well, many in a mob are just observing. Thus you go to jail for the damage you do to them.

 

[zincwarrior]

Mobs do not necessarily flee at gun fire. Also you have no idea who in the mob might just shoot back at you.

I don't think this is referring to me but I would only do so in a personal SD situation. I agree and would recommend leaving the firing into a crowd for the rubber bullet/tear gas experts who would hopefully be coming. (I think in a recent case at McDonalds at a local university, the PoPo pulled an AR when he arrived on scene).

Drive your truck into it? Well, many in a mob are just observing. Thus you go to jail for the damage you do to them.

I could see that if you were being attacked and in said vehicle, and didn't that famously occur in NY (I think NY) with the SUV and the renegade bikers/cops (which is truly strange). In addition to the "innocent bystanders" you could also run over the actual beating victim.

 

[Tom Servo]

Good luck with that public statement thing.

So, you're absolutely sure of your attacker? You're absolutely sure you're only hitting an aggressor and not a bystander? In a mob situation?

You could make the wrong call, hit the wrong person, or maybe a prosecutor decides to press the issue. At that point, a statement like "empty the mag and not bat an eye" could be used to show a vigilante mindset.

I think the truck thing is worth discussing.

Sure. Let's inflict premeditated, indiscriminate force in a way that's not required for self-defense. A jury would have little trouble convicting the driver of all sorts of charges.

Of course, that would be relevant if he survived the beating he got when members of the mob dragged him from the vehicle.

 

[Barnacle Brad]

...mob..are just observing

It's all speculation, right? Given that and the original question, it boils down to two or three options, according to what I am seeing:
Follow your conscience and
A) Stand your ground and take no action unless threatened
B) Take action in defense of an innocent, consequences notwithstanding
C) Quietly escape the scene

Has anyone witnessed a man striking a woman? I have. I immediately see red and intervene. Thats how I am wired. Ray Rice would have beat me to a pulp, but there would be no question where I stood on that behavior. You guys might not do the same and thats ok. That is how you are wired. I make no judgement on you.

 

[zincwarrior]

Option D: Run screaming like a girly boy into the night.
Option E: have the Wife protect you from the bad men (thats my plan!)

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Has anyone witnessed a man striking a woman? I have. I immediately see red and intervene. Thats how I am wired. Ray Rice would have beat me to a pulp, but there would be no question where I stood on that behavior.

Chest thumping aside, this incident wasn't about domestic violence and it wasn't even about men striking women. That isn't what happened in this case and isn't really relevant to anything about it.

 

[zincwarrior]

So, you're absolutely sure of your attacker? You're absolutely sure you're only hitting an aggressor and not a bystander? In a mob situation?

I wasn't attacked by 100 guys. I was however attacked by twelve guys before in the joy of Southern California. If that circumstance reappeared in a heart beat. I can say without doubt I was in definite realistic fear for my life.

Further I live in Texas. This would be nobilled in about 18 seconds.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This isn't going anywhere and we don't have to compare how X,Y or Z is more of a moral action and you are or are not a moral paragon as compared to someone else.

Yes, if Godzilla was going to eat a baby - you would go kick his toe claws -or you would run.

Closed.