Missing cartridge loops on Bonanza TV show

Cartridge loops are most definately not a Hollywood product, unless Hollywood was a post saddler on western military posts in the 1860's. Ordinary soldiers were also sewing loops on their belts in that period. Cartridge loops were becoming common in the mid-late 1860's. Regular military pistol belts were being modified with loops by several saddlers for rifle cartridges, and later pistol cartridges. So much so, that the Army, before long, began making them for issue, and abandonded the cartridge boxes in use before then.

If you want to know what was used back in the day, dig up a copy of "Packing Iron", it has some excellent historical information about gunleather, and some very good pictures of period gear.


I store rounds in my belts, and have for probably 30 years. It hasn't caused any true trouble, just the minor annoyance of the verdegris. I like having them ready to go, so consider it a worthwhile tradeoff. I use a plastic bore brush of a smaller size to clean the crud out of the loops carefully, maybe once or twice a year depending on the belt, and clean the rounds off now and then before heading out into the hills. I've started using some nickel plated brass in some calibers to eliminate the crud issue. The Army used some tin plated cases in the 1880's I believe, just for this reason, but went to canvas belts and dropped the tin plated cases. I also like the nickel brass for another reason. I only load bear loads in nickel brass in 45-70 and 45 Colt, so I know at a glance what the load is when checking a belt or gun when heading out.


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Somewhere in the north woods of Wisconsin is a .348 round and in the Orogrande mine in New Mexico is a few 357 mag cartridges. Couple of my belts have loops and the bandoleer holster rig I am making will have loops for 44 mag and 20 gauge shotgun shells but other than that all rounds for whatever weapon I am carrying goes into my right front pants pocket and nothing else goes into that pocket.

I hate losing rounds and loops have always been a pain in the yup-yup to get out in a hurry or when I was in certain positions like the close quarters of a blind. Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur. Exception is rounds that fit into a magazine and they go in a pouch.

Just personal experience but other than cowboy movies I don't remember any duty belts from the late 40's and early 50's with loops.
 
The show evolved over the years and was set in Nevada which wasn't touched much by the late unpleasantness so it's easy to disregard the timeline
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Nevada did not become a state until 1864, so it is easy to see why it was largely untouched by the unrest. And it was admitted because of its large gold and silver deposits to help pay the bill for the party back East, even though it did not meet the population requirements.

Gun belts with belt loops existed before 1900, but they were uncommon because at the end of the Civil War there were very few cartridge guns, so there were no cartridges to put into the belt loops.

In spite of the numerous fans, Bonanza was a low-budget TV show about fictional characters living on a fictional ranch, it was never intended to be historically accurate. Guns used during the first few seasons were whatever the prop department had on hand, after that they could probably name their favorites and get them. But they still had to use the same blanks, same as John Wayne movies set in 1850s using 1892 Winchesters.
 
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Gun belts with belt loops existed before 1900, but they were uncommon because at the end of the Civil War there were very few cartridge guns, so there were no cartridges to put into the belt loops.
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Between 1873 and 1900 there were 191,999 Colt SAA's made. 115,499 1877 Lightenings, 41,999 1878 Frontiers, 31,000 1889 Navies, 130,999 new model Armies and Navies. Which is 511,496 cartridge guns from Colt alone between 1873 and 1900. Then you have S&W, Remington and a host of others.
 
"Gun belts with belt loops existed before 1900, but they were uncommon because at the end of the Civil War there were very few cartridge guns, so there were no cartridges to put into the belt loops."


So, there was a blank in the 35 year period between 1865 (the end of the Civil War) and 1900? Hawg made a good point in this regards, tho Colt was making cartridge revolvers from 1872 on, and Smith&Wesson was making their single action top break .44's from about 1868. The Army had cartridge breech loaders from the Civil War (Spencers in particular, and they were used on the western frontier for several years afterwards), and in 1866 the Trapdoor Springfield was being used, in 58 rimfire, then 50-70, then 45-70 in 1873. The commercial firearms market also was rapidly developing in cartridge guns in the early 1870's. Historically, and from period photgraphs, we know cartridge belts were fairly common in that period, and in the military from the mid-late 1860's.
 
Very interesting facts and ideas here. I had no idea when I started this thread that there would be the interest. Thanks for all the info and posting great pics!
 
I agree with everybody about plenty of loops being between 1860-1900.Like said a quick look at "Packing Iron" will show numerous original photos of such.

I was a fan of "Wanted Dead or Alive" with McQueen playing Josh Randall.You can still get a reasonable copy of the gun he carried.Called the "Mare's Leg" it is produced in Italy and for the legal people it'sproduced as a handgun so no SBR permit required.Dave :)

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I was a fan of "Wanted Dead or Alive" with McQueen playing Josh Randall.You can still get a reasonable copy of the gun he carried.Called the "Mare's Leg" it is produced in Italy and for the legal people it'sproduced as a handgun so no SBR permit required
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There's a great review of it in the current issue of Guns of the Old West. It looks like a lot of fun!
 
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I saw one of these older used guns at a local gun shop. I think that
it was made by Armi Chiappa (Armi Sport) and also that it was called
a "blanket gun" because it was designed to hide under the covers,
especially when bunking outside under the stars.
 
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Because of this thread I actually watched an episode yesterday.
IN one scene the Adam character was walking away from the camera & it looked like there was a lighter area across the back of the black belt (about 1/3 of the depth of the belt) he always seems to wear. Could loops have been removed for some odd Hollywierd reason?
 
Gun belts with belt loops existed before 1900, but they were uncommon because at the end of the Civil War there were very few cartridge guns, so there were no cartridges to put into the belt loops.
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Between 1873 and 1900 there were 191,999 Colt SAA's made. 115,499 1877 Lightenings, 41,999 1878 Frontiers, 31,000 1889 Navies, 130,999 new model Armies and Navies. Which is 511,496 cartridge guns from Colt alone between 1873 and 1900. Then you have S&W, Remington and a host of others.
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I believe he's talking about the end of the civil war, i.e. 1865, not later.

Anyway, interesting thread. I was just watched the first 3 episodes of The Rifleman last night on Hulu, haven't seen it in years. I didn't realize Sam Peckinpah wrote or directed the first 6 episodes.
 
I believe he's talking about the end of the civil war, i.e. 1865, not later.
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He said they existed before 1900 but were uncommon. Seems to me if that wasn't what he meant there would have been no reason to bring the 1900 date up.
 
BONANZA

AT ONE POINT ITHER HOS,OR LIL JOE CARRIED A PERCUSSION REVOLVER,AS WAS THE NORM FROM 1849-1900,NO NEED FOR CARTDRIDGE BELT,CORNY PROPS ARE EVERY SEROIUS ACTORS PET PEAVE,REALISIM WAS NOT AN IMPORTANT FACTOR,AT THE STUDIO,:cool:
 
I watched The Outllaw Josie Wales on AMC last night. This movie was set at the very tail end of the Civil War and none of the characters (as far as I could see) had cartridge loops. This is consistent with them not being needed because most handguns did not use cartridges at the time.
I hadn't seen that movie in a long time and I had forgotten how entertaining it is.
 
AT ONE POINT ITHER HOS,OR LIL JOE CARRIED A PERCUSSION REVOLVER,AS WAS THE NORM FROM 1849-1900,NO NEED FOR CARTDRIDGE BELT
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Both did. Hoss carried a 58 Remington. Little Joe carried a 51 Navy. Percussions were few and far between well before 1900.
 
Loopy for cartridges

A LOT OF PEOPLE CARRIED PERCUSSION REVOLVERS WELL UP TILL WW1,AS THEY WERE CHEAP AND EFFECTIVE,NOT EVERYONE HAD A LOT OF MONEY,WILD BILL HICKOK CARRIED HIS 1851 C0LT 36 CAL GUNS,A LOT OF MODERN GUN GURUS CUT THIER TEETH ON PERCUSSION GUNS IN THE 20TH CENTURY SOME THOUGHT CARTRIDGES WERE TOO EXPENSIVE,AND YOU ONLY HAD 6 SHOTS PER GUN ANY WAY:cool:
 
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