Minutemen to Bush: Build fence or we will

I have friends in Michigan who lost their jobs directly to Mexican illegals.

I have a relative in Arizone whose car was totalled by an illegal Mexican with no insurance(or license or papers or English speaking ability...) but who DID have(get/was found by) an attorney who tried(failed) to sue her for damages while his happy arse was being shipped out.

Immigration has been discussed since this site came back online, as well as a couple years or more over at "Brand X". Meanwhile it has been a major issue elsewhere for even longer. The time period of discussions here is hardly meaningful.

Why does someone always have to trot out the hate/tolerance card on this? These people are criminals. A large percentage have come here solely for the bennies. They do not share the work ethic or mindset with past immigrants. They cost our infrastructure big dollars, and work cheap because that same support system allows them to. As such they deserve the same contempt and opposition as any other felons, which is exactly what they are getting. Spare us the race card, it's too marked up to use any more.
 
2nd Amendment, thank you for answering the question I asked.

With regards to hate and race, you don't consider putting up electric fences and gulags to be hateful acts?
I simply find it hard to believe that this issue has suddenly become a national emergency.

Why didn't the Minutemen start guarding the borders 20 years ago?
 
a pot gets hot..then it starts to boil..the boiling has began...

mthalo, there must be some sense in the nonsense you keep typing..but I am still looking for it...:confused: :confused: ..doubt I will find any...anyway this is getting boring and I have made my point enough times...on to another thread..
 
You consider jailing illegal invaders and trying to keep others out, aka, enforcing existing laws, "hate"? Then tell me what laws, and the consequences for breaking them, are not "hate"? Or is it only "hate" when perpetrated against a minority/non-white(kinda the whole "hate crime" definition, eh?)?

People have been yelling about the illegals for years. At least since sometime in the early 80's. It's just that the issue has reached a critical enough mass that the politicos in DC have been forced, finally, to pay attention. That's not a sign the issue has recently risen to critical status but merely an example of how insulated, stupid and unconcerned the majority of politi-critters in DC are(and more evidence of the position I have always held, that the fate of America is being decided everywhere EXCEPT inside the Beltway).

Property owners were "guarding the border", their own property, 20 years ago. but back then the illegals were much lesss violent, fewer in number and easier to manage. The Mexican military wasn't helping drug runners. Illegals didn't run in the kind of often "altered state" packs they do now. Changes in the mechanics of the ongoing invasion have resulted in changes in the response of American Citizens. Isn't this to be expected?
 
Rather than ridiculing halo for asking LEGITIMATE questions (which is more than I can say for some of your answers), why not try to educate him POLITELY and reasonable as some of you have done me. Halo buddy, I was having your exact viewpoint about a week or 2 ago. Things are really bad and they're that way largly due to how unchecked it's all gone. And the icing on the cake is what happens when an alien goes on a crime spree...practially do anything with just a slap on the butt back to mehico. Supposedly drug runners rely upon this...frequently.

Carbiner, I was suprised as how tame your reply was, who are you and what have you done with the angry guy?!
 
Ned, sniff the air, Dude. Smell that? That was Car lighting up so much sarcasm the rest of us couldn't breath in the same thread with it and had to leave for a while. :)
 
Mthalo - I've lived in CA pretty much my whole life (boo, hiss). When I was 16 and trying to get a job in my hometown of San Jose, I couldn't find employment. There were too many people trying to get jobs...and 80% of them were mexican. now, I'm not saying they were all illegal, but most of their parents were. most of my mexican friends have told me that their parents are/were illegal.

The other reason I couldn't get a job? Because I don't speak spanish. It's hard to get a job in CA without being bilingual, because a lot of the customers around here are spanish speaking illegal immigrants.

So why didn't I just learn spanish? Oh, I dunno...maybe because the national language in America is ENGLISH. I shouldn't have to adapt for some foreigners; they should have to adapt for us. If you go to most other countries and don't speak the local language, you're pretty much screwed unless it's a popular tourist location. You're probably not going to go to the Mexican, Chinese, or Indian equivilant of the DMV and find forms in English, but in CA, you go to the DMV and all you can find are forms in vietnamese, chinese, spanish, and so on...rambleramble..
 
mthalo wrote:

Who here as directly suffered as a result of illegal immigration, and if so,
how were you hurt?

Did you lose a job to an illegal immigrant?
Were you a crime victim perpetrated by an illegal.

A search on this site of the words "illegal immigration" reveals that little has been discussed about immigration up until it's become newsworthy.
Why is it now such a dire emergency that people are suggesting gulags, fences, violations of human rights and such?

I'm not say illegal immigration isn't a problem, but I have a nagging suspicion that this is all just a "Lets all band together behind the American flag and hate sombody"! moment that Americans seem to love.
Click to expand...


Hundreds, if not thousands of people are 'hurt' by illegal immigrants every day. Our tax dollars go to pay for them and they pay nothing in return.

No one is suggesting violating human rights, we are suggesting CONSEQUENCES for those who violate our rights, break our laws, and spit in our faces all the while. LAW BREAKERS, whoever they are, MUST BE PUNISHED. Plain and simple.

And as far as your last statement, its just ignorant beyond words. We don't HATE, we are SICK AND TIRED of our sovereign soil being trampled on and taken over by an illegal group of people. They are on our soil illegally, waving THIER COUNTRIES FLAGS, and actively PROTESTING on our soil! SOMETHING needs to be done! And there is NOTHING wrong with having pride in our country, of in protecting it, by whatever means necessary from illegal, foreign invaders......
 
mthalo,
Who here as directly suffered as a result of illegal immigration, and if so,
how were you hurt?
Click to expand...
Illegal immigrants have cost my wife, myself, and my family thousands of dollars. That?s just my immediate family. If you include my extended family and people that I know, I could make a list of sufferings as long as my arm.
Were you a crime victim perpetrated by an illegal.
Click to expand...
Yes.

A search on this site of the words "illegal immigration" reveals that little has been discussed about immigration up until it's become newsworthy.
Click to expand...
I?ve been a member of this board since 2001, and a lurker of this board for about a year more. Illegal immigration has been discussed since I first found this forum. That makes this an issue of this board for about six years. Basically since it?s inception. Apparently you need to work on your searching skills?
 
Redhawk, that sounds like a very fine fence, very fine indeed...So to build 700 miles of this great wall of mexico, it's going to cost what again?
Click to expand...

A lot less than the invaders will cost in welfare/medical/labor expenses.:mad:
 
Hey Lambo, why didn't you bother to post the rest of the article? The truncated version leaves out some of the seriously stupid context and aspects of the Minutemen's plan.

From the Billings Gazette (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...LATE=DEFAULT):

Apr 19, 10:46 PM EDT

Minutemen to Bush: Build fence or we will

By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN
Associated Press Writer

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) -- Minuteman border watch leader Chris Simcox has a message for President Bush: Build new security fencing along the border with Mexico or private citizens will.

Simcox said Wednesday that he's sending an ultimatum to the president, through the media, of course - "You can't get through to the president any other way" - to deploy military reserves and the National Guard to the Arizona border by May 25.

Or, Simcox said, by the Memorial Day weekend Minuteman Civil Defense Corps volunteers and supporters will break ground to start erecting fencing privately.

"We have had landowners approach," Simcox said in an interview. "We've been working on this idea for a while. We're going to show the federal government how easy it is to build these security fences, how inexpensively they can be built when built by private people and free enterprise."

Simcox said a half-dozen landowners along the Arizona-Mexico border have said they will allow fencing to be placed on their borderlands, and others in California, Texas and New Mexico have agreed to do so as well.

"Certainly, as with everything else, we're only able to cover a small portion of the border," Simcox said. "The state and federal government have bought up most of the land around the border. I suspect that's why we'll never get control of the border."

But he said the plan is to put up secure fencing that truly will be an effective deterrent, and to show how easily it can be accomplished.

Simcox gave this description of the envisioned barrier-and-fencing complex:

Start with a 6-foot deep trench so a vehicle can't crash through; behind it, roll of concertina (coiled, razor-edged barbed wire), in front of a 15-foot high heavy-gauge steel mesh fence angled outward at the top.

Behind the fence will be a 60- to 70-foot wide unpaved but graded dirt road, along with inexpensive, mounted video cameras that can be monitored from home computers. On the other side of the road will be a second, 15-foot fence, with more concertina wire on its outside.

"It's a very simple, effective design based on feedback we've had from Border Patrol and the military," Simcox said. "It's a fence that can be built on the cheap, effective and secure."

Simcox said supporters will try to build the fencing with volunteer labor. Surveyors and contractors have offered to help with the design and survey work, he said, and some have said they will provide heavy equipment.

Simcox said those involved in the planning hope to keep costs to between $125 and $150 a foot.

Access to land literally on the border is an issue because so much is state-leased trust property or federally owned, he said.

"You may have to deal with a situation where private property owners erect their own fences and may be faced with the president sending the National Guard to prevent them from protecting their private property," Simcox said.

He said the Minuteman plan is "to keep turning up the heat" until President Bush has to respond somehow.
Click to expand...

First, you have to love the threat of telling Bush to build a fence or private citizens will. That is about as good as telling an out of school adult offspring living at home with parents to go out and gett a job or you will give him/her money. The notion of "build it or we will" isn't going to make Bush act. If anything, the Minutemen are sabotaging their own position of trying to get the federal government to deal more with the immigration problem. After all, if Bush won't put in a fence, then they will. So Bush will get a fence to be constructed at no expense of taxpayer $. Yep, the Minuteman plan is just brilliant.

Did y'all notice the price? How much fence are the minutemen going to build? Since they can only build on private property, just who has enough money to install such fencing on private property owned by others? Say I own 1 mile of border and offer to let the minutemen put in a fence on my property. Based on the reduced costs (after using volunteer labor and such) of $125-150 per foot, said fencing will only cost $660,000-792,000 per mile. Does anyone really think they are going to simply give me a gift of that magnitude for the purpose of benefitting the rest of the country? Who will fund the project? Some of the minutemen may be wealthy, but a goodly number are fixed income retirees. Maybe they will be providing the labor instead of the money. So are overly wealthy folks like Bill Gates and Oprah members of the Minutemen?
 
2000 miles @ $150. per foot is roughly $1,584,000,000.00
give or take a couple of billion for .gov pork...

The esteemed Mr. Bodine was a bit more "to the point" in his above post,,,,but I'll stand by my earlier statements of building a fence to "keep people in".

If the .gov drops a couple/few billion on something,,,you can bet they'll want to get their $$$ worth out of it....
 
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