Minimum Wage Clerks Interpreting Your Rights

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This thread brings back some memories, as I used to travel a lot. Nothing major like some of you guys, but irritating little crap and one small bit of education.

I approached the metal detector one time with
my hands in my pocket. "TAKE YOUR HANDS OUT OF YOUR POCKET" the guard snarled. Pissed, I s-l-o-w-l-y took them out. I wanted to say "jawohl oberleutnant" but envisioned a cavity
search, so chickened out.

I habitually carry a 2 1/2" folding lock knife. Didn't realize they allowed some knives though, so I put it inside my key wallet, placed it on the basket, and breezed through. I'm surprised they set the limit at 4" as even my little knife could be held at a stew's throat and create a hostage situation.

The Dallas Ft. Worth airport has a lot of guards there who appear to be Nigerian, judging by their accent. I was bringing a hand satchel full of computer parts home and knew I would be pulled over. I had to explain to the guy what a motherboard was
and everything went OK, but I knew they didn't know what the Hell I was talking about
and could've carried on some type of bomb.

One time I was carrying a thick paperback and didn't put it in the basket. The gal stopped me and made me riffle through the pages to make sure it wasn't a dummy. I thought that was pretty cool.

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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
Most of the time these security people just don't know the rules and they think that they can just make them up as they wish. I fully agree that we, as US citizens, should challenge any rule they have if we think they are not applying it properly. DEMAND that they show it to you in writing. If they can't or won't, DEMAND to make a FORMAL complaint with the airlines and the respective security agency. I hate incompetent people. If they don't know the laws they are suppose to enforce then they should take the time to learn them. Otherwise, they should mind their own business.
 
I fortunately haven't had any property lost going thru airport security, but I did have an irritating experience once at DFW Int'l. I was going thru the checkpoint, when some security puke demands to see my camera. He then proceeds to open the back cover and pull out the roll of film. What really ticked me off was that several other people had just gone thru w/ their own cameras and he didn't stop them. He just randomly picked me to persecute. I was only a teenager at the time and didn't cause a fuss, but believe me, I would now!

We were at DFW again recently and actually had to take our sleeping newborn out of the carseat, so that it (the carseat) could go thru the stupid xray machine! Really pi$$ed me off... (the only potential bomb there was a stinky diaper ;) )

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"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!
 
I been testing the SLC airport... Once I had a AFCK behind my belt buckle and they didnt second glance there... And my boot have steel shanks in the soles... So I set off the alarm every time. The next time I packed a G10 handled Spyderco POLICE, the time after that it was a El Hombre.
I am in there 'bout once a week. Funny - they are always worried about my handgrenade PAGER.
"make it Beep"
"Okay." beep
"okay - your cleared."

Funny - if it beeps - its not a bomb...

Little do they know...
(evil laughter)

kidding


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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Rich - next time ask for the head Delta man on duty.
Oh - and the Sebenza? Ask for DOUBLE cause thems are RARE blades.

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
When I was in DC a year or so again at a teachers convention I went to the Capital. As I approached the entrance I realized I still had two knives on me--a Leatherman and a Spyderco stainless serated Endura. When I got to the metal detector I held out my open hand with both knives on my palm. I told the officer that I wanted to know if I could have them stored until I left the building. He let me pass AND carry my blades. But then he was a true professional and maybe being so upfront led him to believe I was no threat...
 
I went to Six Flags in Arlington, TX this Sunday, where they have metal dectors at the front gates. (The state has declared that amusement parks of such and such capacity in cities of such and such population [read: Six Flags, Astroworld, and Fiesta Texas] are places where weapons are prohibited, PERIOD.?!? Thus, Six Flags is not liable if anyone gets mugged or assaulted!) I asked the boy at the back of the 'tram that brought us in "Hey, what's the policy on my Spectra, here?" He looked at the folder with its 3.5" blade and said,"There's no problem-- they just hold it for you at the door." Not what I want, espcially if you consider that the first fatality EVER in Six Flags' history occured 6 months ago, when someone couldn't get their straps undone on the raft ride that overturned in 4' of water. One little pocketknife would have done the trick. It's a tool! A tool that cuts! Wow! They sell engraved baseball bats, but nobody considers that that might be considered a CLUB, which is less allowed than a pistol in this state! (we have no "concealed Club permits".)

Sooooo, I just took out my wallet, clipped the knife in the middle of the tri-fold, and closed the wallet. My wife said "That will never pass! It sticks out both ends!" But I shrugged, and walked through the detector. BEEP. I took out my wallet and handed it and my keys to the guy at the gate and said "Hold this." He did, and never looked in his hands. I walked through, took my stuff, and said "Thank you" in a bored voice.

I felt cowardly for failing to make a fuss, but my wife was tensing up against it, and sometimes the path of least resistance is best.


Even if it is... a Long Path. ;)
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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt




[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited September 21, 1999).]
 
I guess I've been lucky to not have lost any property at airports, especially since most anything that I had that would have caused a scene was COMPANY property. I have had the (ahem) "security" jokers ask me to make my pager's screen display every time I go thru a checkpoint. Then there's the time I was randomly selected out of 5 other passengers + the 3 other guys I was traveling with to go thru the laptop boot-up test in Bismarck, ND. To compound this folly, the battery on the laptop wasn't working, so it had to be plugged into an outlet. Guess what? No outlets nearby, so we had to go down the hall a ways. Strike 3- well, you know how if you don't shut down Win95 properly, the next time you start up, you have to run Scandisk? You guessed it. The last time the computer had been on, it wasn't shut down right, so now here I am with a 486/66MHz, explaining all this to the guard, 'cause he had to sit thru 10 min of Scandisk before he finally got bored, decided he'd seen enough, and let me go. However, I still had to wait for it to finish so I could shut it back down. ARGH!! One of the other guys with me was made to take his Makita drill out of the tool bag and make it go "whir" for the guard.

To anyone who honestly believes that a BG would bother to hide a bomb/laser/knife/gun/widget in his pager/laptop/drill/camera/oderwidget, I say "you've been watching too many Bond movies."

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Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.

The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....

If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!


[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited September 21, 1999).]
 
Rich,

Yep, it's a movement. We could chain ourselves to the metal detector :)

"Officer Opie, I cannot tell a lie. I put that letter under that half a ton of garbage."


"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant."

"...and being a litterbug." and that all moved back to me on the Group W bench.

:) :) :)

Brings back memories

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Byron Quick
 
I side-step this problem by just carrying one of Choate Machine & Tool's "CIA Letter Openers" when I fly. Believe it or not, you can actually get a pretty good edge on one of these. What they don't know won't hurt me ;)
 
I dont think Obsidian will be picked up on a detector. They hold a wicked edge. Many custom makers will give you the obsidian option.

What about those ceramic blades?
Mad Dog knives?

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Plastic knives.

Obsidian knives.

Ceramic knives.


Hedging.

We need to meet the BS head-on, as Rich did.

"...and pinned a medal on my chest and said, 'You're our boy.'"


Just make sure there's more than two of us singing...



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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt
 
Bravado is bravado when your not there. Every gambler know you have to hedge your bets. The stakes are nothing less than the lives of yourself or your loved ones.

Rich met the BS head on - and lost a very expensive folding knife that I would not call a meer "pocket knife."

When an idiot takes a job that has no job requirement other than NOT being a felon - and Getting at least through High School or getting a GED - and this job gives this jerk power over YOU... well - then HELL YES hedge your bets! Same goes for just going to BURGER KING! Always order your burger just a little differnt - Extra Pickle or No Pickle... what ever - just as long as you dont get that one under the red lamp!

Not all Security Officers are idiots.
Some Are real pros and know the score.
Some are guys who just dont give a damn.
Some are as stupid as two headed nail.
Where are you going to bet your money?

Longpath - I see you are a Security Supervisor - and that you may take offense at my words... Please dont take them that way - I also see your a University Student, so your smarter than the average bear. Good - You would know 4 inches is 4 inches... You can tell if some one is a threat or not. I bet you can even observe weather or not a man is packing heat. You probaly take your job very seriously. BUT DO ALL THE OFFICERS under YOU?
What about Other security officers under different managment? I bet you know of several sec-officers who you wouldnt even let guard you Bic Pen. You want that fellow judging your rights?

If I have offended you - Please - Please, email me. I wasn't making this personal.

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac



[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited September 21, 1999).]
 
Ahem.
Rich, take this any way you desire, it is your forum.
That Sebenza represents 2 weeks wages to a minimum wage earner. Low pay does not designate low morals. Low pay does not designate low expectations. The broad brush, painting a large picture, hides the imperfections underneath. Not a rebuke or a moral statement here but a reminder that all isn't what it seems. I have worked for min wage. I have worked with many min wage employees. Some were good. Some were bad. They all had one thing in common. They were working, not sucking off the system. Perhaps you intended to title this,"I am just following orders".

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CCW for Ohio action site.
http:/www.ofcc.net
 
It's not about the wage - its about Someone else interpreting Rules according to there wants and denying you your rights.

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Long Path

When I took my eighth grade class to Magic Mountain (Six Flags north of L.A.) I had the same two blades. Then I saw the metal detectors. The bus had left already so I couldn't stash them. I put them inside the gun area of my Galco fanny pack(no gun) and walked through. When I set off the detector an attendant asked me to open my pack. I opened the non-gun zipper exposing my pumpkin seeds and nothing metallic. I got waved through. In fact all the adults in my group got waved through. Seems they were more concerned about the kids...

However--I took my family to Six Flags in Denver security was a LOT more thorough. All bags were completely check and if you set off the detector they found out why. Noce thing is that they were quick and polite about it. Good thing I left the blades in the car.
 
Rich, GOOD FOR YOU :D
Hey, everyone remember that here in Aus. knife carry is BANNED ! - At least you can still carry Legally....sigh
Australia, NO guns...NO knives - I feel safe.... NOT :(

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
Alternate E-mail
hs2k@email.com
 
Oh, gawd, Kod.. George, I'm right there with you, man! I picked this job up after my last one had a lay-off and I needed a night job to go with school that would allow me to basically goof-off and study, but that would pay full benefits for my brand-new family. It would scare the living hell out of me if I woke up one day and thought that I either (a) planned to make a carreer out of this, or (b) took myself as seriously as 90% of these guys do.

No. Indeed, I must not be smarter than the average bear-- I seem to've implied to you that I was offended. No, it was more of an open-handed swipe at all of us (me included! Note my last paragraph of my last post!) for side-stepping the fight that I think we oughta meet head-on. Hell, yes, I hedge. Hell, yes, I'd get me a ceramic blade if I had the money and they'd save me the trouble.

As a man in corporate security, which is a tad different in scope, but has similar demands, I can tell you this-- a smart boy won't last. The ONLY reason I've lasted as long as I have is that I'm a night supervisor who can tell others to do the dull, dull stuff, while I tend Base and do my homework. Who do I want on my shift under me? The dumb, enthusiastic guy! He's not going to burn out, and he's always looking for something interesting. ("Hey! An unlocked door! Now I get to lock it, and use my walkie-talkie to call it in with our arbitrary code-system! I can feel like a real-live po-liceman!") I had another guy who was doing the same thing I'm doing for a little while, and he finally had to move off the shift. Somebody had to get some work done! He's about to leave to do something, anything else, and I don't blame him. I just want to get this degree behind me so badly, I'll put up with it.

The point... (point? was there a... Ah, yes!) is, NO! I can't possibly be offended when you and Rich, et al point out that they are unskilled labor that have virtually no qualifications other than passing a piss test and having no felonies (usually), because I suffer the fools, daily! I had more respect for my position back when I flipped hamburgers in a fast food joint years ago-- at least as a short-order cook who had to prioritize and expedited, I had to engage some skills!

And one thing you learn early on in Security-- you can bully anyone around and justify it to management as a "safety issue." This, of course is exactly what happened to Rich.

Sigh. But enough about MY problems... :)

On that note, gotta run to class-- 4.5 hours of lecture, and then I get to sleep for 2.5 hours...!

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited September 21, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited September 21, 1999).]
 
Picture this:

You're travelling with your wife, 12-year-old daughter and 24-month-old-daughter. Perth ---> Sydney ---> Auckland ---> Hawaii (some 26 hours flying time; plus about another 6 hours in airports.). At Hawaii, your younger daughter is desperately ill (seems she reacted badly to the sedative the doctor prescribed for her to sleep.) The Customs/Immigration hall is packed to the gunwales, but you join the queues.

Out of nowhere, a v-e-r-y large Hawaiian man in uniform taps you on the shoulder. "Passports," he says, quite brusquely. He looks them over, then says "Follow me". Fearing the worst, too tired to complain, you follow him into a small office. "Sit," he says. You sit. He scrutinises, the passports, then stamps them and hands them back. "Welcome to the USA," he says, with the biggest grin I've ever seen, leading us to the exit. I try to say "Thank you", but he cuts me short. "Wasn't for you," he says. "Was for the little girl. Couldn't see her waitin' for an hour as sick as she is. Better get her looked at". (As it turned out, with some fresh water (they charged me a $1 a glass!) and on solid ground, she recovered quickly).

I was {b]so[/b] grateful to that man. I wish I knew who he was.

Then on to LA. Jess (my daughter) now soundly asleep in her pusher (stroller). Into Delta for our connecting flight -- only to be told "Wake her up and get out of the stroller!".

That's right -- at 24 months they made her walk through the metal detector by herself (wouldn't let me or Dianne carry her) while they X-rayed the stroller which clearly had a sticker on it saying, "Security X-rayed in Sydney" (or similar words).

Too tired to protest to the lady, we put it through. Then they told us it would have to go in baggage anyway (it folded down so was within cabin limits).

Oh, yes, almost forgot --- in my on-board bag (an old Qantas flight bag), was a "camping set" of clip-together knife, fork and spoon, good quality, stainless steel. The knife is maybe 6 1/2 inches, serrated edge, razor sharp.

It was never questioned once.

B
 
That's the nice thing about my Spyderco Native. I think it's great but I'm not going to go ballistic if someone runs off with it.

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Byron Quick
 
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