Military Shotguns

For breaching purposes, you only need attack the weakest part of the locking mechanism. Which typically is the cylinder and cup plate. 00 buck will do fine. You just don't see it CONUS b/c of the possible injuries to innocents behind the door, hence breaching rounds. But, a breaching round will kill you just as good.
 
Blue Duck said:
Some semi-auto shotguns were used also, by foreign countrys.
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And by this country. :cool:

tony pasley said:
A few years ago they had one on the market I forget who made it but it was an ar on top and 12 ga. semi-auto on bottom.
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It was the Crossfire. Actually a pump .223 over a pump 12ga. scattergun. Possibly the only weapon that could malfunction with two calibers at once. Plus it was heavy and insanely awkward, and the designers couldn't pronounce "ergonomics" if they tried. Save your money.
 
Brecher, tell me more

I know about locksets and strikes, have not heard the term cup plate please tell me more!

Thanks for the reminder about CONUS and liability, and then the rest of the real world. I do not remember breaching in the republic of, must of happened, just don't recall.

Picked up a nasty little war wound in the leg some 25 or so years ago from bounce back, they guessed, a metal stud in a commercial building flatted and returned a OO right back at me, a nice gash a little blood fountaining. HENCE, the warning I posted above. It is considered "bad form" in my gaggle of friends and a fellow rejects to shoot yourself regardless of the "reasons". I took some hits in the local paper, Want adds: need to sew up duty pants QUICKLY, call stupid at ######.

Good Luck & Be Safe
 
Scattergun,
The cup is the area that accepcts that locking cylinder, the cup plate is the metal around the cup. A typical cylinder will only insert about an inch or less into the cup. That is all that is holding the door. Attacking this will open the door with ease.
 
Brecher

I understand, we are talking about the same parts, using different names. In the Door industry the thing that screws on the door jam to accept the cylinder lock end is referred to as the strike plate. the portion of the cylinder that enters the hole bored into the door jamb is called the strike. Same stuff just different nomenclature.

In that case, Baldwin hardware makes #3 commercial armored strike plates Strikes jamb plates and door panels as well as mortised lock sets. These are for use secure areas. Our weapon storage, Ammo storage and exterior range doors were armored in such a way. Most bank doors are also, to conform to commercial code. They WOUD BE resistant to shotgun breaching.

So I repeat "good luck with that, that 00 hurts bad when it flattens and bounces back off a hardened strike plate."

For that matter, our standard Royal powdered compressed metal breacher would vaporize without getting the job done. Hardened jambs and armor very tough.

If you like you can check it out with San Jose police, they have had a couple of failures, thankfully no blood.

Good Luck & Be Safe
 
Breacher

your talking about the deadbolt! could not see it with your nomenclature. OK so you attack the deadbolt at the cyl asembly, you now have to attack the door handle with is also locked. It is still a big problem if it is hardened, or door plated.
 
From what one of my Sgts. told me (and 0351 assaultman) he carried a benelli. Every vehicle was equiped with a 12 guage be it a benelli or 590.

-Max.
 
Scattergun Bob


When we run into a breach that a 12 gauge will not work on, we have other methods in our bag of goodies :D

Getting inside is never much of an issue for us and the shotty is needed on about 1/3 of breaches.
 
Boris

You bet, I think you guy's use great restraint, and quit frankly I do not care about what happens the folks behind the door in that part of the world you operate in.


I was reading arrogance from another member, not you and returning same. """just being my normal butt head""""""""


SITREP between me and you stays the same.

any question at all, press the trigger.
Do what you have to do, to come home
If you get out here in the sticks, lunch is on me.

"as you travel in harms way please remember there are those of us whom wish you well." Good Luck & Be Safe
 
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military shotguns

During the communist insurrection in Malaya in the early 1950s, British troops patrolling in the jungles came to favor the use of shotguns by the point man. They concluded in that environment the shotgun was superior to the Sten, M-1 carbine, and the Australian Owen SMG.
 
Scattergun

Scattergun Bob said:
I was reading arrogance from another member, not you and returning same. """just being my normal butt head""""""""
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Hope you're not referring to me. No arrogance was displayed or meant by me.
 
Breacher

Nope, this was the end of a conversation started on another thread. Being new to the internet forum media form I sometimes forget that the "world is watching" sorry, I will do better, enjoyed our conversation even though I got confused.

I really screwed up on the SWAT thread, I need to get smarter faster about how the game is played!!! I believe in what I said, just said it to the wrong group. A common joke afloat in country was that the average time to WIA for a door gunner was 2 days. Thank God they are only shooting electrons, Breacher, this FNG would have died in 2 hours.

Good Luck and Be Safe
 
The Combat Shotgun in the Infantry Brigade

Slightly edited from it's orginal form:

The Combat Shotgun in the Infantry Brigade

Army Qualification Standards (Modified)

Just about every thing you want to know about Mil use of the shotgun.

Primary Service shotgun is a 18 1/2" Mossberg 500 for the Army, and a 18 1/2" 590 for the USMC, both 5+1 with bead sights. MOST non-SOF 870's in service are pushing 30 years since they were procured. SOF has a mixture of 870's 500's, 590's and the 20" 590.

The Benelli M-4/M-1014 is also in service with the USMC in fairly small numbers. I believe the Air Force is using 870's as is the Coast Guard.
 
About flechettes, like someone else said, I read they were experimented with very briefly in the 60s but proved not to be ineffective to the point of uselessness.

The other story was that they were so effective that they were considered "cruel, and unusual" if you will, and were not allowed to be used on other people.

Go figure right?

One of the earlier posters seemed to have done convoy security in Iraq and wished he had a few shotguns. That was what I did in Iraq as well, and we had a few shotguns. Somehow they were left over, and somehow, we got them. There were 2 Mossberg 500's and 1 Benelli M4. They made vehicle searches a little bit easier, but really, I felt we didn't really need them, because of our role. I wanted them to go to our PTT because it would serve them and their needs much better than ours. I spoke up, but I was only an E-4, an NCO by USMC standards, but still a peon in reality.

An interesting story from way back was about the infamous "trench gun" and the tactics employed with it. I'm not sure if this was WWI or WWII, but the Germans definitely feared this weapon. From what I read, it had the ability to "slam fire", and the tactic was to rush in the trench with a fire team all armed with trench guns lined up in a single row rapidly "slam firing" all their rounds and alternating with the next guy and so on right down the line. By the time the last guy expended his ammunition, the first guy would have been reloaded already and it starts again.

I don't know the veracity behind this, but it was an interesting read nonetheless. It's got to be true, because if it's from WWII or WWI, you just can't make that stuff up. ;)
 
An interesting story from way back was about the infamous "trench gun" and the tactics employed with it. I'm not sure if this was WWI or WWII, but the Germans definitely feared this weapon.
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They complained about it famously. They lobbied (the League of Nations?) to outlaw it as an instrument of warfare.
 
We had a few of those trench shotties in our arms room right up til a few years ago, along with some M14s from who-knows-where. One day they just shipped them off. I'd hate to think they got chopped up.
 
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